Jump to content


Matt Martin on the Islanders' success: a model for the Sabres?


  • Please log in to reply
34 replies to this topic

#1 PASabreFan

PASabreFan

    Resistance is futile

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,265 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 12 May 2013 - 10:51 AM

Matt Martin: "We're a family in here. Nobody wanted to play here. We took that personally. We were a laughingstock. Not anymore."

Isn't this more like what it should feel like when the Sabres turn it around? Should the franchise actually promote this atmosphere, instead of pretending it's hockey heaven, and we have the best owner, and money won't be an object, and Buffalo is an awesome city, you'll love it, and overpaying to force square pegs into round holes?

Get a bunch of guys who want to play here, rejects, local guys, southern Ontario guys, whatever and build around an underdog mentality. It's not that far off from what almost paid off in 1999. I suspect Darcy believes in it; I doubt Terry likes the idea of it, because it's no longer about Terry anymore.

As an aside, how realistic is this idea that the Sabres can ever become a "championship machine" (Ted's words) in a salary cap era? Does Ted even believe it? He said on his show, when talking about making moves at deadlines, that when teams find themselves close to a Cup, they should pounce, because they could suck again for three or four years after that.

Does anybody really believe what the Sabres are selling here?

Just go win one Cup so we can all die of massive coronaries with smiles on our faces.

#2 Robviously

Robviously

    What You Don't See

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,072 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:North Texas

Posted 12 May 2013 - 10:53 AM

Step 1: Draft John Tavares.

#3 Sabres Fan In NS

Sabres Fan In NS

    I'd rather be in Sarajevo, or Istanbul (not Constantinople)

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,486 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

Posted 12 May 2013 - 11:01 AM

View PostRobviously, on 12 May 2013 - 10:53 AM, said:

Step 1: Draft John Tavares.

A great place to start, no doubt.

The Islander slow turn around started then.

Will there be the equivalent of JT for the Sabres in this draft?  Not likely at #8, IMO.  If they had a top 3 pick, yup.

#4 PASabreFan

PASabreFan

    Resistance is futile

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,265 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 12 May 2013 - 11:16 AM

View PostRobviously, on 12 May 2013 - 10:53 AM, said:

Step 1: Draft John Tavares.

I never got the feeling the Islanders scaring the Pens stemmed from Tavares. Tavares is not to the Isles what Crosby is to the Penguins.

#5 d4rksabre

d4rksabre

    This pleases Nikita

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,390 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 12 May 2013 - 11:23 AM

The Islanders did things the hard way. You don't have to suck to their level to build team personality. But facing adversity helps. That's why I liked how the Sabres went on this year. They had the kind of season that builds character. If you trade Vanek and Miller you're really going to see that next season. Learning how to lose and learning how to fight back from being down is important. Oddly enough guys like Leino, Ott, Kaleta, Weber, they can lead that fight. Guys with attitude and chips on their shoulders.

View PostPASabreFan, on 12 May 2013 - 11:16 AM, said:



I never got the feeling the Islanders scaring the Pens stemmed from Tavares. Tavares is not to the Isles what Crosby is to the Penguins.

I think you undervalue Tavares. He is without a doubt the most important player on their team. He's Crosby without Malkin.

Edited by d4rksabre, 12 May 2013 - 11:23 AM.


#6 PASabreFan

PASabreFan

    Resistance is futile

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,265 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 12 May 2013 - 11:34 AM

View Postd4rksabre, on 12 May 2013 - 11:23 AM, said:

I think you undervalue Tavares. He is without a doubt the most important player on their team. He's Crosby without Malkin.

You read a little too much into that. I think I heard that the Pens turned over half their roster this year. Crosby makes that possible. I don't think Tavares is that kind of centerpiece yet. The Isles' success was Tavares plus what Martin was talking about.

#7 d4rksabre

d4rksabre

    This pleases Nikita

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,390 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 12 May 2013 - 11:45 AM

View PostPASabreFan, on 12 May 2013 - 11:34 AM, said:



You read a little too much into that. I think I heard that the Pens turned over half their roster this year. Crosby makes that possible. I don't think Tavares is that kind of centerpiece yet. The Isles' success was Tavares plus what Martin was talking about.

Does Crosby make that possible? The pens have gotten pretty good at winning without him. They're a team with leaders and playoff vets who don't need to learn how to be a team. They've already got what the Islanders had to build from scratch.

#8 wyldnwoody44

wyldnwoody44

    dont pee into the wind

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,869 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Springville, NY

Posted 12 May 2013 - 12:08 PM

View Postd4rksabre, on 12 May 2013 - 11:45 AM, said:



Does Crosby make that possible? The pens have gotten pretty good at winning without him. They're a team with leaders and playoff vets who don't need to learn how to be a team. They've already got what the Islanders had to build from scratch.
I agree, the Pens still have other pieces in place. Having malkin as your #2 guy doesn't hurt either. They may have turned over a lot of their roster but also added guys like Murray and iginla as well, they have shown that they're a winning team even without Crosby in the lineup.

#9 LabattBlue

LabattBlue

    First Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,367 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Western New York

Posted 12 May 2013 - 12:19 PM

View PostSabres Fan In NS, on 12 May 2013 - 11:01 AM, said:

A great place to start, no doubt.

The Islander slow turn around started then.

Will there be the equivalent of JT for the Sabres in this draft?  Not likely at #8, IMO.  If they had a top 3 pick, yup.
Are Drouin and MacKinnon on par with Tavares?

#10 Sabres Fan In NS

Sabres Fan In NS

    I'd rather be in Sarajevo, or Istanbul (not Constantinople)

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,486 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

Posted 12 May 2013 - 12:42 PM

View PostLabattBlue, on 12 May 2013 - 12:19 PM, said:

Are Drouin and MacKinnon on par with Tavares?

I would say yes.

Both would be very comparable with Tavares.

MacKinnon has been compared to Crosby and I'm not sure if Tavares ever was.

Drouin could be viewed as a combination of Perreault (stick handling) and Martin (pure goal scorer), with a little Gare mixed in.

#11 Grumpy

Grumpy

    Fourth Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 553 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:WNY

Posted 12 May 2013 - 12:52 PM

View PostPASabreFan, on 12 May 2013 - 10:51 AM, said:



Get a bunch of guys who want to play here, rejects, local guys, southern Ontario guys, whatever and build around an underdog mentality. It's not that far off from what almost paid off in 1999.

Really? I know you were an adult in 1999, but do just throw sh*t at the wall to see what sticks?

#12 X. Benedict

X. Benedict

    All Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,037 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 12 May 2013 - 01:38 PM

View PostPASabreFan, on 12 May 2013 - 11:16 AM, said:

I never got the feeling the Islanders scaring the Pens stemmed from Tavares. Tavares is not to the Isles what Crosby is to the Penguins.
Tavares is more to the Islanders than what Crosby is to the Pens.

The Isles have no Malkin.

#13 JJFIVEOH

JJFIVEOH

    Second Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,508 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Boca Raton, FL

Posted 12 May 2013 - 02:45 PM

I'm going to go out on a limb and say every hockey player is going to say that about their team and locker room atmosphere. If there's any truth about the way Ott talks, the same can already be said about the Sabres. The Isles have been loaded with talent for a few years now and haven't done anything with it. They happened to have a decent short season and played hot against the Pens. Any team can go on a hot streak. Let's not get too hasty and all of a sudden think they are a good team.

#14 Robviously

Robviously

    What You Don't See

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,072 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:North Texas

Posted 12 May 2013 - 03:01 PM

View PostLabattBlue, on 12 May 2013 - 12:19 PM, said:

Are Drouin and MacKinnon on par with Tavares?
I'm skeptical.  Tavares came up through the OHL.  Drouin and MacKinnon are QMJHL stars -- prospects from that league should always be taken with a grain of salt.  (Marek Zagrapan completely dominated that league, we drafted him 13th overall, and he never played an NHL game, for example.)

#15 Tom Backyard

Tom Backyard

    Prospect

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 152 posts

Posted 12 May 2013 - 03:05 PM

Woah. Hold up.


If the sabres start operating like Wang runs that club, people are really going to moan and cry.

Yes they made the postseason, as an 8 seed.

Yes they have some great young talent.

But at this point they are not a model franchise.


#16 X. Benedict

X. Benedict

    All Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,037 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 12 May 2013 - 03:07 PM

View PostJJFIVEOH, on 12 May 2013 - 02:45 PM, said:

I'm going to go out on a limb and say every hockey player is going to say that about their team and locker room atmosphere. If there's any truth about the way Ott talks, the same can already be said about the Sabres. The Isles have been loaded with talent for a few years now and haven't done anything with it. They happened to have a decent short season and played hot against the Pens. Any team can go on a hot streak. Let's not get too hasty and all of a sudden think they are a good team.

Their top end talent at forward is undeniable - as are their flaws.

Their speedy forwards had a favorable match-ups with the Pens D - which is a good defense - but Orpik, Murrray, Eaton, and even Martin had trouble containing their speed.

#17 JJFIVEOH

JJFIVEOH

    Second Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,508 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Boca Raton, FL

Posted 12 May 2013 - 03:13 PM

View PostX. Benedict, on 12 May 2013 - 03:07 PM, said:



Their top end talent at forward is undeniable - as are their flaws.

Their speedy forwards had a favorable match-ups with the Pens D - which is a good defense - but Orpik, Murrray, Eaton, and even Martin had trouble containing their speed.

Oh no doubt. But they've had that speed for a couple of years now with nothing to show for it. I think with a full season they wouldn't have made the playoffs. Only next year can tell if they are turning the corner. I won't be convinced until I actually see it.

#18 Sabres Fan In NS

Sabres Fan In NS

    I'd rather be in Sarajevo, or Istanbul (not Constantinople)

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,486 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

Posted 12 May 2013 - 04:11 PM

View PostRobviously, on 12 May 2013 - 03:01 PM, said:

I'm skeptical.  Tavares came up through the OHL.  Drouin and MacKinnon are QMJHL stars -- prospects from that league should always be taken with a grain of salt.  (Marek Zagrapan completely dominated that league, we drafted him 13th overall, and he never played an NHL game, for example.)

Not to be a dink, but many elite players have come from the Q.

http://theqmjhl.ca/h...y-of-the-league

Including, you will note, in particular ... Crosby.

#19 TrueBluePhD

TrueBluePhD

    First Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,646 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cheektowaga, NY

Posted 12 May 2013 - 04:15 PM

View PostRobviously, on 12 May 2013 - 03:01 PM, said:

I'm skeptical.  Tavares came up through the OHL.  Drouin and MacKinnon are QMJHL stars -- prospects from that league should always be taken with a grain of salt.  (Marek Zagrapan completely dominated that league, we drafted him 13th overall, and he never played an NHL game, for example.)

My guess is Zagrapan was still there at 13th for a reason beyond he came from the Q. Sure nobody plays much defense in the Q, but I don't think that speaks to how an individual player's offensive skill set will translate.

#20 thesportsbuff

thesportsbuff

    Second Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,206 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Western NY

Posted 12 May 2013 - 05:26 PM

Nothing against the Islanders. Tavares is one of the league's true superstars, and has been for a while (though you wouldn't know it by the way NBCSN drooled over him as if it was the first time any of them saw him play). They played awesome vs the Penguins and delivered a very entertaining series. A few bounces this way or that way and they could have been the ones winning in six games.

However! I'm not ready to call them a "model organization" just yet. They lucked into a generational talent at #1 overall -- a can't miss draft pick in Tavares. Without him, the Islanders don't even approach the playoff picture this year. And before we get too carried away calling the Islanders "successful," let's remember that they haven't made the playoffs since 2006-07, barely snuck in to the 8th seed on the heels of Winnipeg/Buffalo/Jersey collapsing in an abbreviated season, and were eliminated in the first round. That's success? Because something tells me if Buffalo qualified as the 8th seed and were eliminated in the first round, everyone here would be calling for (more) heads to roll like always.

NYI also has no goaltender (besides DiPietro) under contract next season, and their two best defensemen are 35+ years old and aging by the day. Barring a big splash in free agency, I don't think you can count on the Islanders being back in the post-season after a full, 82-game season next year.

#21 Robviously

Robviously

    What You Don't See

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,072 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:North Texas

Posted 12 May 2013 - 05:55 PM

View PostSabres Fan In NS, on 12 May 2013 - 04:11 PM, said:

Not to be a dink, but many elite players have come from the Q.

http://theqmjhl.ca/h...y-of-the-league

Including, you will note, in particular ... Crosby.

View PostTrueBluePhD, on 12 May 2013 - 04:15 PM, said:

My guess is Zagrapan was still there at 13th for a reason beyond he came from the Q. Sure nobody plays much defense in the Q, but I don't think that speaks to how an individual player's offensive skill set will translate.
Obviously good players can come from the Q and obviously Zagrapan didn't suck because he came from the Q (seriously, did either of you two really think that was what I was saying?) but I'm definitely at the point where I trust the star prospects from that league far less than I trust the star prospects from the OHL or WHL.

If you look at the Sabres' draft history, I think Pominville is their only QMJHL success story since Pierre Turgeon.

#22 ThirtyEight

ThirtyEight

    Second Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,704 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oxford, UK

Posted 12 May 2013 - 06:09 PM

View PostSabres Fan In NS, on 12 May 2013 - 12:42 PM, said:

I would say yes.

Both would be very comparable with Tavares.

MacKinnon has been compared to Crosby and I'm not sure if Tavares ever was.

Drouin could be viewed as a combination of Perreault (stick handling) and Martin (pure goal scorer), with a little Gare mixed in.

Tavares was called "The next one" in reference to his skill and the Gretzky to Sid, Sid to Tavares link. MacKinnon is more often compared to Stamkos it seems

#23 IKnowPhysics

IKnowPhysics

    Second Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,687 posts

Posted 12 May 2013 - 06:39 PM

View Postthesportsbuff, on 12 May 2013 - 05:26 PM, said:

However! I'm not ready to call them a "model organization" just yet.

Oh hell no.  Not with Charles in Charge.


Edited by IKnowPhysics, 12 May 2013 - 06:39 PM.


#24 PASabreFan

PASabreFan

    Resistance is futile

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,265 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 12 May 2013 - 07:14 PM

View Postthesportsbuff, on 12 May 2013 - 05:26 PM, said:

Nothing against the Islanders. Tavares is one of the league's true superstars, and has been for a while (though you wouldn't know it by the way NBCSN drooled over him as if it was the first time any of them saw him play). They played awesome vs the Penguins and delivered a very entertaining series. A few bounces this way or that way and they could have been the ones winning in six games.

However! I'm not ready to call them a "model organization" just yet. They lucked into a generational talent at #1 overall -- a can't miss draft pick in Tavares. Without him, the Islanders don't even approach the playoff picture this year. And before we get too carried away calling the Islanders "successful," let's remember that they haven't made the playoffs since 2006-07, barely snuck in to the 8th seed on the heels of Winnipeg/Buffalo/Jersey collapsing in an abbreviated season, and were eliminated in the first round. That's success? Because something tells me if Buffalo qualified as the 8th seed and were eliminated in the first round, everyone here would be calling for (more) heads to roll like always.

NYI also has no goaltender (besides DiPietro) under contract next season, and their two best defensemen are 35+ years old and aging by the day. Barring a big splash in free agency, I don't think you can count on the Islanders being back in the post-season after a full, 82-game season next year.
Dude, if the Sabres had just had the season the Islanders had, they'd be digging up Canalside to start fracking tomorrow.

View PostPASabreFan, on 12 May 2013 - 07:13 PM, said:

Dude, if the Sabres had just had the season the Islanders had, they'd be digging up Canalside to start fracking tomorrow.

Someone please take two of those "had"s out and shoot them.

View PostGrumpy, on 12 May 2013 - 12:52 PM, said:

Really? I know you were an in adult diapers in 1999, but do just throw sh*t at the wall to see what sticks?

Fixed it for ya.

#25 X. Benedict

X. Benedict

    All Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,037 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 12 May 2013 - 07:33 PM

View PostSabres Fan In NS, on 12 May 2013 - 04:11 PM, said:

Not to be a dink, but many elite players have come from the Q.

http://theqmjhl.ca/h...y-of-the-league

Including, you will note, in particular ... Crosby.

La la la la la la la la laaa Fon........nope, can't think of  anyone else.

#26 mudberry

mudberry

    Prospect

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 49 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 13 May 2013 - 12:12 AM

It seems that in order to be a model franchise like the Islanders, or the Penguins, you need to suck for a while and suck at the right time. You can't hover around being an OK franchise, but you need to come close to folding like these two models. Not sure if anyone in Buffalo is ready to be a model franchise

#27 LGR4GM

LGR4GM

    Poop Flavored Lollypop

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,573 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tanking it Old School

Posted 13 May 2013 - 08:19 AM

View PostPASabreFan, on 12 May 2013 - 10:51 AM, said:

Matt Martin: "We're a family in here. Nobody wanted to play here. We took that personally. We were a laughingstock. Not anymore."

Isn't this more like what it should feel like when the Sabres turn it around? Should the franchise actually promote this atmosphere, instead of pretending it's hockey heaven, and we have the best owner, and money won't be an object, and Buffalo is an awesome city, you'll love it, and overpaying to force square pegs into round holes?

Get a bunch of guys who want to play here, rejects, local guys, southern Ontario guys, whatever and build around an underdog mentality. It's not that far off from what almost paid off in 1999. I suspect Darcy believes in it; I doubt Terry likes the idea of it, because it's no longer about Terry anymore.

As an aside, how realistic is this idea that the Sabres can ever become a "championship machine" (Ted's words) in a salary cap era? Does Ted even believe it? He said on his show, when talking about making moves at deadlines, that when teams find themselves close to a Cup, they should pounce, because they could suck again for three or four years after that.

Does anybody really believe what the Sabres are selling here?

Just go win one Cup so we can all die of massive coronaries with smiles on our faces.
I'd like to give you a +1 for managing to bash Pegula for something you don't even know for sure.  Well done...

Now I am giving you a -100 for your hate campaign and how it pollutes what was otherwise and interesting and intriguing idea.

#28 LTS

LTS

    Who's next?

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,038 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Mendon, NY (by way of Tonawanda)

Posted 13 May 2013 - 11:16 AM

View PostPASabreFan, on 12 May 2013 - 10:51 AM, said:

Matt Martin: "We're a family in here. Nobody wanted to play here. We took that personally. We were a laughingstock. Not anymore."

Isn't this more like what it should feel like when the Sabres turn it around? Should the franchise actually promote this atmosphere, instead of pretending it's hockey heaven, and we have the best owner, and money won't be an object, and Buffalo is an awesome city, you'll love it, and overpaying to force square pegs into round holes?

Get a bunch of guys who want to play here, rejects, local guys, southern Ontario guys, whatever and build around an underdog mentality. It's not that far off from what almost paid off in 1999. I suspect Darcy believes in it; I doubt Terry likes the idea of it, because it's no longer about Terry anymore.

As an aside, how realistic is this idea that the Sabres can ever become a "championship machine" (Ted's words) in a salary cap era? Does Ted even believe it? He said on his show, when talking about making moves at deadlines, that when teams find themselves close to a Cup, they should pounce, because they could suck again for three or four years after that.

Does anybody really believe what the Sabres are selling here?

Just go win one Cup so we can all die of massive coronaries with smiles on our faces.


The Islanders are a joke of a franchise and no one wants to play there.  Why?  It's because the arena sucks, no one shows up to the games, no one even cares that they exist.  Regardless of the quality of the team on the ice Buffalo is an incredible hockey market.  The people of Buffalo have proven time and again to be some of the most avid (or easily entertained) fans in the league.  They are routinely ranking in the top of the television viewing markets for national games that don't even involve their team.  I don't think you are getting that on Long Island.

The owner has a proven track record of making completely insane decisions (DiPietro!).

The one thing I would PASabre"Fan" would do is leave the anti-fracking hatred at the door.  It's become increasingly clear that you have major issues with the concept of fracking and that you are bringing those here to spew hatred against the owner.  I'm not going to touch on the ethics and impact of fracking here because this is SabreSpace not FrackingSpace.

By the way, nice job insulting the city of Buffalo and the people who live there.  

We don't necessarily buy what is being sold but we are at least willing to listen to it.

#29 PASabreFan

PASabreFan

    Resistance is futile

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,265 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 13 May 2013 - 11:38 AM

View PostLTS, on 13 May 2013 - 11:16 AM, said:

The Islanders are a joke of a franchise and no one wants to play there.  Why?  It's because the arena sucks, no one shows up to the games, no one even cares that they exist.  Regardless of the quality of the team on the ice Buffalo is an incredible hockey market.  The people of Buffalo have proven time and again to be some of the most avid (or easily entertained) fans in the league.  They are routinely ranking in the top of the television viewing markets for national games that don't even involve their team.  I don't think you are getting that on Long Island.

The owner has a proven track record of making completely insane decisions (DiPietro!).

The one thing I would PASabre"Fan" would do is leave the anti-fracking hatred at the door.  It's become increasingly clear that you have major issues with the concept of fracking and that you are bringing those here to spew hatred against the owner.  I'm not going to touch on the ethics and impact of fracking here because this is SabreSpace not FrackingSpace.

By the way, nice job insulting the city of Buffalo and the people who live there.  

We don't necessarily buy what is being sold but we are at least willing to listen to it.


I don't have a strong opinion either way about fracking. It's the classic double-edged sword. Lots of benefits/lots of risk. I like to haul it out once in a while as an easy joke. I have too many hockey reasons to dislike Pegula to have to resort to fracking.

Suggesting that Buffalo is not "awesome" is hardly an insult. There's a certain arrogance surrounding the Sabres and even the city as it relates to hockey. Not sure why. Hey 24-year-old single millionaire guy, Scotty Bowman lives "here" — you're going to love it! It's awesome!

I find it interesting how much the Sabres and Islanders seem to have in common. Strong market or not, I would venture to say no playoff game in Sabres history was ever as loud and boisterous as the games on Long Island during the playoffs.

And I have a suggestion as to where you can deep drill those quote marks around "fan."

#30 DeLuca1967

DeLuca1967

    #39 - Greatest of All-Time.

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,233 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 13 May 2013 - 11:51 AM

View PostPASabreFan, on 13 May 2013 - 11:38 AM, said:

I don't have a strong opinion either way about fracking. It's the classic double-edged sword. Lots of benefits/lots of risk. I like to haul it out once in a while as an easy joke. I have too many hockey reasons to dislike Pegula to have to resort to fracking.

Suggesting that Buffalo is not "awesome" is hardly an insult. There's a certain arrogance surrounding the Sabres and even the city as it relates to hockey. Not sure why. Hey 24-year-old single millionaire guy, Scotty Bowman lives "here" — you're going to love it! It's awesome!

I find it interesting how much the Sabres and Islanders seem to have in common. Strong market or not, I would venture to say no playoff game in Sabres history was ever as loud and boisterous as the games on Long Island during the playoffs.

And I have a suggestion as to where you can deep drill those quote marks around "fan."
I wonder, if Ehrhoff had to do it all over again, if he would have signed with the Islanders. If you are a free agent and you want to win and the choices are the Islanders and the Sabres, you have to pick the Islanders. They have a nice group of young talented players, and despite some bad contracts, they have much more cap space available than the Sabres going into next off-season. As franchises go, with John Tavares and players like Okposo, Moulson, and others, they are in a better position going forward than the Sabres are.

#31 PASabreFan

PASabreFan

    Resistance is futile

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,265 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 13 May 2013 - 01:18 PM

View Postdeluca67, on 13 May 2013 - 11:51 AM, said:

I wonder, if Ehrhoff had to do it all over again, if he would have signed with the Islanders. If you are a free agent and you want to win and the choices are the Islanders and the Sabres, you have to pick the Islanders. They have a nice group of young talented players, and despite some bad contracts, they have much more cap space available than the Sabres going into next off-season. As franchises go, with John Tavares and players like Okposo, Moulson, and others, they are in a better position going forward than the Sabres are.

All that, plus the move to Brooklyn, surely places the Islanders above the Sabres on the list of desired places to play.

View PostLGR4GM, on 13 May 2013 - 08:19 AM, said:

I'd like to give you a +1 for managing to bash Pegula for something you don't even know for sure.  Well done...

If SabreSpace discussion would be limited to what we know for sure, there wouldn't be much talk allowed. It's my opinion, based on observation, that Terry bought the team to fulfill a desire to own a sports franchise, and to be a prominent, involved, fully engaged owner. When he walked onto the ice before that game, it told you a lot. Rigas didn't do it, and neither did Golisano. He has an ego. He wants it massaged, and I'm not the only one who thinks so apparently. Ted feels the need to constantly fawn over the guy during his show.

I think owning the Sabres is this aging guy's way of seeing if his wealth, outlook on life, personality and business philosophy (file all that under "The Pegula Way") can be the deciding factor in winning a Cup. Note that he didn't buy the team, hire good people, set the mission, write the checks and go back to Florida. You really think he's going to let a strong GM come in and tell him, other than his money to some extent, none of that other stuff matters?

Would Terry rather win a Cup as an absentee owner or come close as the guy who camps out down the hall from Darce?

#32 Claude_Verret

Claude_Verret

    Second Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,987 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Holly Springs, NC via Hamburg, NY

Posted 13 May 2013 - 01:52 PM

View PostPASabreFan, on 13 May 2013 - 01:18 PM, said:

If SabreSpace discussion would be limited to what we know for sure, there wouldn't be much talk allowed. It's my opinion, based on observation, that Terry bought the team to fulfill a desire to own a sports franchise, and to be a prominent, involved, fully engaged owner.


Agree with the bolded, however it is my opinion that your conclusions about Pegula, not unlike the bad teammate narrative you built around Miller, suffers greatly from confirmation bias.  In other words, when you view everything about Pegula through your meddling owner prism, then you are in turn  skewing any information you see, hear or read to support your belief.

#33 LTS

LTS

    Who's next?

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,038 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Mendon, NY (by way of Tonawanda)

Posted 13 May 2013 - 02:55 PM

View PostPASabreFan, on 13 May 2013 - 11:38 AM, said:

I don't have a strong opinion either way about fracking. It's the classic double-edged sword. Lots of benefits/lots of risk. I like to haul it out once in a while as an easy joke. I have too many hockey reasons to dislike Pegula to have to resort to fracking.

Suggesting that Buffalo is not "awesome" is hardly an insult. There's a certain arrogance surrounding the Sabres and even the city as it relates to hockey. Not sure why. Hey 24-year-old single millionaire guy, Scotty Bowman lives "here" — you're going to love it! It's awesome!

I find it interesting how much the Sabres and Islanders seem to have in common. Strong market or not, I would venture to say no playoff game in Sabres history was ever as loud and boisterous as the games on Long Island during the playoffs.

And I have a suggestion as to where you can deep drill those quote marks around "fan."

Buffalo has drawbacks and it's not Los Angeles, New York, or Boston but who cares?  It's not supposed to be.  Buffalo has a lot going for it as well.  24 year old single millionaire guys generally don't get to select where they live.  They get drafted and signed to their EL and three years later are RFAs.  it take a bit longer to escape the clutches of doom that is small market Buffalo unless you get traded.  At age 27 players are perhaps less concerned about some of the aspects.   What's the draw of a bigger city?  Nightlife?  Okay.  I'm not sure how much nightlife the players enjoy during the season.  I'm sure it's there to some extent.  However, a $2.5m salary goes a lot further in Buffalo than it does in NYC.  Players can afford to live it up even more.  They can still fly to NYC in 45 minutes for almost nothing and travel in the off-season.  Is that a big deal for them?  Who knows.. it's been said time and again that players, once they are here really like the place.  That has to count for something.

The city is, however, married to hockey.  I'm not sure why you argue against it.  You may get the same number of viewers in Buffalo as you do in Boston but when the percentages are different it translates into a different atmosphere.  The same was true with the Bills when they were winning.  The city was nuts for it.  In most cities, when you are failing for so many years you tend to become forgotten.  In Buffalo you can fail for years and still be the most important topic of conversation.  That means that win or lose... people still care.  The same isn't true in many other cities, in those cities the teams become afterthoughts.

Edited by LTS, 13 May 2013 - 02:58 PM.


#34 PASabreFan

PASabreFan

    Resistance is futile

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,265 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 13 May 2013 - 07:45 PM

View PostClaude_Verret, on 13 May 2013 - 01:52 PM, said:

Agree with the bolded, however it is my opinion that your conclusions about Pegula, not unlike the bad teammate narrative you built around Miller, suffers greatly from confirmation bias.  In other words, when you view everything about Pegula through your meddling owner prism, then you are in turn  skewing any information you see, hear or read to support your belief.

Message board dictionary

Narrative: an opinion you disagree with

#35 Claude_Verret

Claude_Verret

    Second Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,987 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Holly Springs, NC via Hamburg, NY

Posted 14 May 2013 - 07:34 AM

View PostPASabreFan, on 13 May 2013 - 07:45 PM, said:

Message board dictionary

Narrative: an opinion you disagree with

I've made it quite clear that I fully disagree with your opinion on Miller, mainly because I'm a guy who needs just a tad bit more concrete evidence (read: any) before coming to such conclusions.  Your Pegula "opinion I disagree with" is just more of the same.