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List of Darcy player screw ups

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#1 Icehole

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 06:33 PM

Losing Biere and Dumont
Signing Ville Leino
Not signing Zubrus
Losing Tallinder
Drafting Kassian
Signing Leopold
Losing Lydman
Waiting time with an aging Regher
Not finding and NHL ready center to go after

Grigerenko is a work in progress, yet he was deemed the next big thing and the reason the Sabres didn't trade up...


Please feel free to add to this list:

#2 IKnowPhysics

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 06:37 PM

Yawn.

#3 weave

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 06:39 PM

At least the same thought wasn't typed out verbatim in a 3rd thread.

#4 Icehole

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 06:45 PM

View Postweave, on 07 May 2013 - 06:39 PM, said:

At least the same thought wasn't typed out verbatim in a 3rd thread.

Just figured it deserved a definitive list for those keeping track and Marcy sympathizers who think he deserves more time. P.S. I did do a copy and paste with edits if you are wondering....  hence the subtle changes.. :P

#5 inkman

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 06:54 PM

View PostNorth Buffalo, on 07 May 2013 - 06:45 PM, said:

Just figured it deserved a definitive list for those keeping track and Marcy sympathizers who think he deserves more time. P.S. I did do a copy and paste with edits if you are wondering....  hence the subtle changes.. :P
Darcy is a girl's name

#6 X. Benedict

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 07:35 PM

View PostNorth Buffalo, on 07 May 2013 - 06:33 PM, said:

Losing Biere and Dumont
Signing Ville Leino
Not signing Zubrus
Losing Tallinder
Drafting Kassian
Signing Leopold
Losing Lydman
Waiting time with an aging Regher
Not finding and NHL ready center to go after

Grigerenko is a work in progress, yet he was deemed the next big thing and the reason the Sabres didn't trade up...


Please feel free to add to this list:

I don't see why drafting Kassian was a mistake.  
He's too young to call a bust, and he brought in assets.

Edited by X. Benedict, 07 May 2013 - 07:35 PM.


#7 weave

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 07:51 PM

View PostX. Benedict, on 07 May 2013 - 07:35 PM, said:

I don't see why drafting Kassian was a mistake.  
He's too young to call a bust, and he brought in assets.

Choosing not to retain Briere and Dumont was a mistake.
Signing Leino could be argued as something that had to happen.  The dollar amount is a bit nuts though.  
Not offering Zubrus a contract was a mistake
I didn't mind losing Tallinder at the time.  I'm still not convinced he was the reason for Myers' stagnation.  Meh.
Drafting Kassian was a mistake?  That's a reach.
Signing Leopold was a good deal IMO.  He had a rough year this year.  He's been relatively solid until then.
Losing Lydman?  Again, meh.
The return on Regher was solid.  HTF critical are you gonna get when they got a pretty good return?
Not getting an NHL center is a legit complaint.
And judging Grigo after a couple dozen games?

At least this sort of traffic dies down quickly.

#8 SwampD

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 08:15 PM

What about coaching? He kept Ruff 5+ years too long.

#9 bunomatic

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 08:32 PM

List of Darcy Regier thread topics not yet used on Sabrespace

Does Darcy wear his lucky cufflinks on gameday ?
Is RR Darcys illegitimate love child ?
Has Darcy Regier won the cup in a past life ?
Does Darcy closet smoke lucky strikes ?
Can Darcy win at texas holdem with the #13 carved into his forhead ?
Will Darcy and RR consumate their relationship ?
Did Darcy bronze the handcuffs he was formerly shackled with ?
Are Darcys handcuffs velvet ?
Does Darcy have Larry Quinn on speed dial ?

#10 Eleven

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 09:28 PM

(a) Are we really doing this "marcy" stuff again?  Weak.  (b) I don't want him here for one more day, but would OP care to list his good moves, too?

#11 Spndnchz

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 09:42 PM

Is Farcy better?

#12 Eleven

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 09:50 PM

View PostSpndnchz, on 07 May 2013 - 09:42 PM, said:

Is Farcy better?

Frankly, yes.  It's much more clever.

#13 Ghost of Dwight Drane

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 10:12 PM

View PostEleven, on 07 May 2013 - 09:28 PM, said:

(a) Are we really doing this "marcy" stuff again?  Weak.  (b) I don't want him here for one more day, but would OP care to list his good moves, too?

Fair point.....let's play a little tit-for-tat...

Traded for Gratton (bad).......Traded Gratton for Briere (good).....let Briere walk for nothing in return after offering him same contract Briere would have signed 10 months earlier (bad)

Traded for Warrener (good)......Traded Warrener to get Drury (good).....let Drury walk for nothing (bad)

Traded Grosek for Gilmour and Dumont (good)........Let Gilmour walk and one of the most respected players of his generation talked openly negative about the organisation (bad)......Let Dumont walk for nothing to make a point to his Frenchie friend Briere (double bad)

Traded for Barnes (good)

Traded Peca for Connolly and Pyatt instead of Iginla (really really bad)

Failed to trade for Gary Roberts or Guerin knowing that the team was about to let Briere and Drury walk and only had 1 shot at the Cup (bad)

Signed Connolly, Roy, Kotalik, Afinogenov, Kalinin and Gaustad to inflated contracts while letting Grier, Dumont, McKee, Briere and Drury walk for the same cumulative money (really...really..really bad)

Let Biron go so Lindy could work Miller to the point of a skeleton year after year (bad)

Drafted Vanek (good)......gave up 4 #1 draft picks from a horrible team and signed Vanek to one of the biggest contracts in the league because he F'd up Briere and Drury (quadruple bad)

Drafted Myers and Ennis (good)..........Paid Myers and Ennis $15 million last year (bad)

Said Lindy was his coach as long as he was GM (good).......Fired Lindy after taking a 5 year extension on top of the other extension he took as Pegula was closing on the purchase of the team (weasel)

Made it to the Stanley Cup and conference finals on the heels of inheriting the best goalie in the world and a team led by the GM and coach of the year....as well as a set of new rules coming out of the lockout that turned an also-ran into a contender (good....I guess)...........missed the playoffs almost every other year (bad)

So the way I see it, almost every major victory for Darcy ended in a flaming defeat at some point.......and there are a baker's dozen of other crapola incidents to lead most of us to the conclusion we hold dear......

WE'RE SCREWED!

#14 bunomatic

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 10:15 PM

View PostGhost of Dwight Drane, on 07 May 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:

Fair point.....let's play a little tit-for-tat...

Traded for Gratton (bad).......Traded Gratton for Briere (good).....let Briere walk for nothing in return after offering him same contract Briere would have signed 10 months earlier (bad)

Traded for Warrener (good)......Traded Warrener to get Drury (good).....let Drury walk for nothing (bad)

Traded Grosek for Gilmour and Dumont (good)........Let Gilmour walk and one of the most respected players of his generation talked openly negative about the organisation (bad)......Let Dumont walk for nothing to make a point to his Frenchie friend Briere (double bad)

Traded for Barnes (good)

Traded Peca for Connolly and Pyatt instead of Iginla (really really bad)

Failed to trade for Gary Roberts or Guerin knowing that the team was about to let Briere and Drury walk and only had 1 shot at the Cup (bad)

Signed Connolly, Roy, Kotalik, Afinogenov, Kalinin and Gaustad to inflated contracts while letting Grier, Dumont, McKee, Briere and Drury walk for the same cumulative money (really...really..really bad)

Let Biron go so Lindy could work Miller to the point of a skeleton year after year (bad)

Drafted Vanek (good)......gave up 4 #1 draft picks from a horrible team and signed Vanek to one of the biggest contracts in the league because he F'd up Briere and Drury (quadruple bad)

Drafted Myers and Ennis (good)..........Paid Myers and Ennis $15 million last year (bad)

Said Lindy was his coach as long as he was GM (good).......Fired Lindy after taking a 5 year extension on top of the other extension he took as Pegula was closing on the purchase of the team (weasel)

Made it to the Stanley Cup and conference finals on the heels of inheriting the best goalie in the world and a team led by the GM and coach of the year....as well as a set of new rules coming out of the lockout that turned an also-ran into a contender (good....I guess)...........missed the playoffs almost every other year (bad)

So the way I see it, almost every major victory for Darcy ended in a flaming defeat at some point.......and there are a baker's dozen of other crapola incidents to lead most of us to the conclusion we hold dear......

WE'RE SCREWED!

GODDs post ( good )

#15 TheMadKat

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 10:32 PM

View Postweave, on 07 May 2013 - 07:51 PM, said:

Choosing not to retain Briere and Dumont was a mistake.
Signing Leino could be argued as something that had to happen.  The dollar amount is a bit nuts though.  
Not offering Zubrus a contract was a mistake
I didn't mind losing Tallinder at the time.  I'm still not convinced he was the reason for Myers' stagnation.  Meh.
Drafting Kassian was a mistake?  That's a reach.
Signing Leopold was a good deal IMO.  He had a rough year this year.  He's been relatively solid until then.
Losing Lydman?  Again, meh.
The return on Regher was solid.  HTF critical are you gonna get when they got a pretty good return?
Not getting an NHL center is a legit complaint.
And judging Grigo after a couple dozen games?

At least this sort of traffic dies down quickly.

- How do you know it was Regiers choice to not retain Briere?  Briere was reason Dumont was successful in Buffalo.  
- Zubrus = Leino
- Why risk Myers development by losing Tallinder?  Huge mistake.
- Drafting Kassian?  I dont understand your point.
- Leopold was a good signing
- Please explain how Lydman should have been kept but Leopold was bad signing.  Dont get it.
- Regher was a great move and Regier got excellent return for him at the deadline this year.
- Regier found Hodgson and went after him.  Name a center Regier could have acquired over the last 3 years that was available via trade or free agency.

View PostGhost of Dwight Drane, on 07 May 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:

Fair point.....let's play a little tit-for-tat...

Traded for Gratton (bad).......Traded Gratton for Briere (good).....let Briere walk for nothing in return after offering him same contract Briere would have signed 10 months earlier (bad)

Traded for Warrener (good)......Traded Warrener to get Drury (good).....let Drury walk for nothing (bad)

Traded Grosek for Gilmour and Dumont (good)........Let Gilmour walk and one of the most respected players of his generation talked openly negative about the organisation (bad)......Let Dumont walk for nothing to make a point to his Frenchie friend Briere (double bad)

Traded for Barnes (good)

Traded Peca for Connolly and Pyatt instead of Iginla (really really bad)

Failed to trade for Gary Roberts or Guerin knowing that the team was about to let Briere and Drury walk and only had 1 shot at the Cup (bad)

Signed Connolly, Roy, Kotalik, Afinogenov, Kalinin and Gaustad to inflated contracts while letting Grier, Dumont, McKee, Briere and Drury walk for the same cumulative money (really...really..really bad)

Let Biron go so Lindy could work Miller to the point of a skeleton year after year (bad)

Drafted Vanek (good)......gave up 4 #1 draft picks from a horrible team and signed Vanek to one of the biggest contracts in the league because he F'd up Briere and Drury (quadruple bad)

Drafted Myers and Ennis (good)..........Paid Myers and Ennis $15 million last year (bad)

Said Lindy was his coach as long as he was GM (good).......Fired Lindy after taking a 5 year extension on top of the other extension he took as Pegula was closing on the purchase of the team (weasel)

Made it to the Stanley Cup and conference finals on the heels of inheriting the best goalie in the world and a team led by the GM and coach of the year....as well as a set of new rules coming out of the lockout that turned an also-ran into a contender (good....I guess)...........missed the playoffs almost every other year (bad)

So the way I see it, almost every major victory for Darcy ended in a flaming defeat at some point.......and there are a baker's dozen of other crapola incidents to lead most of us to the conclusion we hold dear......

WE'RE SCREWED!

View PostGhost of Dwight Drane, on 07 May 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:


Fair point.....let's play a little tit-for-tat...

Traded for Gratton (bad).......Traded Gratton for Briere (good).....let Briere walk for nothing in return after offering him same contract Briere would have signed 10 months earlier (bad)

Traded for Warrener (good)......Traded Warrener to get Drury (good).....let Drury walk for nothing (bad)

Traded Grosek for Gilmour and Dumont (good)........Let Gilmour walk and one of the most respected players of his generation talked openly negative about the organisation (bad)......Let Dumont walk for nothing to make a point to his Frenchie friend Briere (double bad)

Traded for Barnes (good)

Traded Peca for Connolly and Pyatt instead of Iginla (really really bad)

Failed to trade for Gary Roberts or Guerin knowing that the team was about to let Briere and Drury walk and only had 1 shot at the Cup (bad)

Signed Connolly, Roy, Kotalik, Afinogenov, Kalinin and Gaustad to inflated contracts while letting Grier, Dumont, McKee, Briere and Drury walk for the same cumulative money (really...really..really bad)

Let Biron go so Lindy could work Miller to the point of a skeleton year after year (bad)

Drafted Vanek (good)......gave up 4 #1 draft picks from a horrible team and signed Vanek to one of the biggest contracts in the league because he F'd up Briere and Drury (quadruple bad)

Drafted Myers and Ennis (good)..........Paid Myers and Ennis $15 million last year (bad)

Said Lindy was his coach as long as he was GM (good).......Fired Lindy after taking a 5 year extension on top of the other extension he took as Pegula was closing on the purchase of the team (weasel)

Made it to the Stanley Cup and conference finals on the heels of inheriting the best goalie in the world and a team led by the GM and coach of the year....as well as a set of new rules coming out of the lockout that turned an also-ran into a contender (good....I guess)...........missed the playoffs almost every other year (bad)

So the way I see it, almost every major victory for Darcy ended in a flaming defeat at some point.......and there are a baker's dozen of other crapola incidents to lead most of us to the conclusion we hold dear......

WE'RE SCREWED!

Nice job twisting 1/2 truths...

#16 Ghost of Dwight Drane

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 10:48 PM

View PostTheMadKat, on 07 May 2013 - 10:32 PM, said:

Nice job twisting 1/2 truths...

Guess what has only been twisted 6 times in the last 6 years??????????????????????

The turnstiles at HSBC Arena for a playoff game!!!!!!!

Edited by Ghost of Dwight Drane, 07 May 2013 - 10:49 PM.


#17 Numark

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 10:51 PM

View PostEleven, on 07 May 2013 - 09:50 PM, said:

Frankly, yes.  It's much more clever.

Nah I heard he was the one who gave lindy the idea to get violent with the youngins

#18 Icehole

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 05:39 AM

I agree Farcy is probably better, I just like callying him Marcy Darcy, don't know why just do.

Regarding Leopold v Lydman.  Did you see Leo blow another play, give away at the blue line last night ending up in the back of his own net.

Lydman was not flashy but tuff as nails and consistent on D.  I would take him over Leo any day.

The long added list and fuller explanation by Ghost was exactly what I was hoping for.  I just went off the top of my head and knew it was very cursory.

#19 shrader

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 08:11 AM

View PostNorth Buffalo, on 08 May 2013 - 05:39 AM, said:

I agree Farcy is probably better, I just like callying him Marcy Darcy, don't know why just do.

So who do we label as Jefferson?

#20 Sabre Dance

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 08:43 AM

View PostGhost of Dwight Drane, on 07 May 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:

Fair point.....let's play a little tit-for-tat...

Traded for Gratton (bad).......Traded Gratton for Briere (good).....let Briere walk for nothing in return after offering him same contract Briere would have signed 10 months earlier (bad)

Traded for Warrener (good)......Traded Warrener to get Drury (good).....let Drury walk for nothing (bad)

Traded Grosek for Gilmour and Dumont (good)........Let Gilmour walk and one of the most respected players of his generation talked openly negative about the organisation (bad)......Let Dumont walk for nothing to make a point to his Frenchie friend Briere (double bad)

Traded for Barnes (good)

Traded Peca for Connolly and Pyatt instead of Iginla (really really bad)

Failed to trade for Gary Roberts or Guerin knowing that the team was about to let Briere and Drury walk and only had 1 shot at the Cup (bad)

Signed Connolly, Roy, Kotalik, Afinogenov, Kalinin and Gaustad to inflated contracts while letting Grier, Dumont, McKee, Briere and Drury walk for the same cumulative money (really...really..really bad)

Let Biron go so Lindy could work Miller to the point of a skeleton year after year (bad)

Drafted Vanek (good)......gave up 4 #1 draft picks from a horrible team and signed Vanek to one of the biggest contracts in the league because he F'd up Briere and Drury (quadruple bad)

Drafted Myers and Ennis (good)..........Paid Myers and Ennis $15 million last year (bad)

Said Lindy was his coach as long as he was GM (good).......Fired Lindy after taking a 5 year extension on top of the other extension he took as Pegula was closing on the purchase of the team (weasel)

Made it to the Stanley Cup and conference finals on the heels of inheriting the best goalie in the world and a team led by the GM and coach of the year....as well as a set of new rules coming out of the lockout that turned an also-ran into a contender (good....I guess)...........missed the playoffs almost every other year (bad)

So the way I see it, almost every major victory for Darcy ended in a flaming defeat at some point.......and there are a baker's dozen of other crapola incidents to lead most of us to the conclusion we hold dear......

WE'RE SCREWED!

This list should have been handed to Pegula before he signed the ownership papers.  Maybe that would have changed his mind about keeping Darcy...but probably not. :yawn:

#21 tom webster

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 08:51 AM

View PostTheMadKat, on 07 May 2013 - 10:32 PM, said:

- How do you know it was Regiers choice to not retain Briere?  Briere was reason Dumont was successful in Buffalo.  
- Zubrus = Leino
- Why risk Myers development by losing Tallinder?  Huge mistake.
- Drafting Kassian?  I dont understand your point.
- Leopold was a good signing
- Please explain how Lydman should have been kept but Leopold was bad signing.  Dont get it.
- Regher was a great move and Regier got excellent return for him at the deadline this year.
- Regier found Hodgson and went after him.  Name a center Regier could have acquired over the last 3 years that was available via trade or free agency.

[size=4]

Nice job twisting 1/2 truths...

Not sure were you see the half truths so I won't comment on that but you throw your opinion in on Dumont which I will challenge. Darcy chose Kotlik over Dumont when Dumont was developing into the forward with an edge that we had hoped for. He walked away from a deal for Briere that he later admitted to mis-judging the market place. He chose not to negotiate with Vanek even though Nathan Horton set the market(wouldn't want Darcy to ever be so bold as to set the market). These moves were all on him. Who was at fault with regard to 23 and 48 has been discussed ad nauseum and the truth lies somewhere between all the lies and half truths.
All this set the team back till now were we are starting all over again with the same guy that continually mis-read the market and now admits to being wrong about the rebuilding plan that he orchestrated over the last 6 or 7 years.

#22 MattPie

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 09:28 AM

View PostGhost of Dwight Drane, on 07 May 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:

Let Biron go so Lindy could work Miller to the point of a skeleton year after year (bad)

If I remember right, Biron was going to be UFA and wasn't signing anything unless he was assured of having the starting job. He was traded at the deadline-ish for *something* from Philly (early draft pick?), right?

#23 Spndnchz

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 09:32 AM

View PostMattPie, on 08 May 2013 - 09:28 AM, said:

If I remember right, Biron was going to be UFA and wasn't signing anything unless he was assured of having the starting job. He was traded at the deadline-ish for *something* from Philly (early draft pick?), right?

He was traded to Philadelphia Flyers for round 2 pick in the 2007 draft.  Ended up being Brennan

#24 TrueBluePhD

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 10:17 AM

View PostGhost of Dwight Drane, on 07 May 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:

Fair point.....let's play a little tit-for-tat...

Traded for Gratton (bad).......Traded Gratton for Briere (good).....let Briere walk for nothing in return after offering him same contract Briere would have signed 10 months earlier (bad)

Traded for Warrener (good)......Traded Warrener to get Drury (good).....let Drury walk for nothing (bad)

Traded Grosek for Gilmour and Dumont (good)........Let Gilmour walk and one of the most respected players of his generation talked openly negative about the organisation (bad)......Let Dumont walk for nothing to make a point to his Frenchie friend Briere (double bad)

Traded for Barnes (good)

Traded Peca for Connolly and Pyatt instead of Iginla (really really bad)

Failed to trade for Gary Roberts or Guerin knowing that the team was about to let Briere and Drury walk and only had 1 shot at the Cup (bad)

Signed Connolly, Roy, Kotalik, Afinogenov, Kalinin and Gaustad to inflated contracts while letting Grier, Dumont, McKee, Briere and Drury walk for the same cumulative money (really...really..really bad)

Let Biron go so Lindy could work Miller to the point of a skeleton year after year (bad)

Drafted Vanek (good)......gave up 4 #1 draft picks from a horrible team and signed Vanek to one of the biggest contracts in the league because he F'd up Briere and Drury (quadruple bad)

Drafted Myers and Ennis (good)..........Paid Myers and Ennis $15 million last year (bad)

Said Lindy was his coach as long as he was GM (good).......Fired Lindy after taking a 5 year extension on top of the other extension he took as Pegula was closing on the purchase of the team (weasel)

Made it to the Stanley Cup and conference finals on the heels of inheriting the best goalie in the world and a team led by the GM and coach of the year....as well as a set of new rules coming out of the lockout that turned an also-ran into a contender (good....I guess)...........missed the playoffs almost every other year (bad)

So the way I see it, almost every major victory for Darcy ended in a flaming defeat at some point.......and there are a baker's dozen of other crapola incidents to lead most of us to the conclusion we hold dear......

WE'RE SCREWED!

Hey now, if you're going to go beyond a simple good/bad system and start using "really" as well, you have to give more credit to certain moves.  Gratton for Briere is more than just "good" and so is Grosek for Gilmour and Dumont.  And I have no idea why you feel the need to lump Ennis' bridge contract into the same classification as Myers' long-term, front-loaded deal.

#25 inkman

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 10:54 AM

View Postshrader, on 08 May 2013 - 08:11 AM, said:

So who do we label as Jefferson?
Looks wise Foligno had an uncanny resemblance but in this case RR IS Jefferson D'Arcy.

#26 shrader

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 11:21 AM

View Postinkman, on 08 May 2013 - 10:54 AM, said:

Looks wise Foligno had an uncanny resemblance but in this case RR IS Jefferson D'Arcy.

So Lindy was Steve?

#27 Eleven

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 12:46 PM

View PostMattPie, on 08 May 2013 - 09:28 AM, said:

If I remember right, Biron was going to be UFA and wasn't signing anything unless he was assured of having the starting job. He was traded at the deadline-ish for *something* from Philly (early draft pick?), right?

I don't remember any ultimatum.  I remember that it was obvious that we had an asset to move and that he wanted to be a starter somewhere.

#28 MattPie

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 01:17 PM

View PostEleven, on 08 May 2013 - 12:46 PM, said:

I don't remember any ultimatum.  I remember that it was obvious that we had an asset to move and that he wanted to be a starter somewhere.

Er, right. I didn't mean to imply that. I think Marty wanted to be traded to a starter job, but I don't think he was demanding anything. All I meant was he wasn't going to re-sign with the Sabres in the off-season. Wasn't this the year we played with the white mask as a statement that he wanted to be traded though?

#29 Eleven

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 01:21 PM

View PostMattPie, on 08 May 2013 - 01:17 PM, said:

Er, right. I didn't mean to imply that. I think Marty wanted to be traded to a starter job, but I don't think he was demanding anything. All I meant was he wasn't going to re-sign with the Sabres in the off-season. Wasn't this the year we played with the white mask as a statement that he wanted to be traded though?

Got it--I read you wrong the first time.  His mask, IIRC, was painted, but didn't fit.  So he was wearing a blank one.  When it became obvious to everyone not living in the DPRK that he would be traded, he kept the blank mask, I think.

#30 Spndnchz

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 01:51 PM

View PostEleven, on 08 May 2013 - 01:21 PM, said:

Got it--I read you wrong the first time.  His mask, IIRC, was painted, but didn't fit.  So he was wearing a blank one.  When it became obvious to everyone not living in the DPRK that he would be traded, he kept the blank mask, I think.

Correct with the painted part.  I think he kept the mask because he was winning and was superstitious.

#31 TheMadKat

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 02:12 PM

View Posttom webster, on 08 May 2013 - 08:51 AM, said:

Not sure were you see the half truths so I won't comment on that but you throw your opinion in on Dumont which I will challenge. Darcy chose Kotlik over Dumont when Dumont was developing into the forward with an edge that we had hoped for. He walked away from a deal for Briere that he later admitted to mis-judging the market place. He chose not to negotiate with Vanek even though Nathan Horton set the market(wouldn't want Darcy to ever be so bold as to set the market). These moves were all on him. Who was at fault with regard to 23 and 48 has been discussed ad nauseum and the truth lies somewhere between all the lies and half truths.
All this set the team back till now were we are starting all over again with the same guy that continually mis-read the market and now admits to being wrong about the rebuilding plan that he orchestrated over the last 6 or 7 years.



I personally believe there are more people within the organization involved in the player acquisition and contract negotiation decision-making process than Darcy.  I do not like the outcome of the ORGANIZATIONAL decisions but I do not solely blame Darcy for all of them.  There are too many unknown factors to place all the blame on Darcy.  Unless - of course- you were part of the decision making process and witnessed Darcy making all the decisions on his own.  

Totally agree w/ point on Briere and it was HUGE blunder.  Darcy took responsibility for the decision.

I think Kotalik and Dumont are comparable players in a lot of respects.  Impossible to know but I personally believe Kotalik could have had similar success on a line w/ Briere.  Just ask Leino....  

RFA and UFAs have choices in the process too.  There are two sides to a negotiation.  Some players may choose to negotiate after reaching RFA in hopes of an offer sheet and others may choose to 'walk' regardless of the offer.  Just a couple of scenarios I've considered personally.

All that said.... I do not like the outcome over the last several years and I would prefer different personnel leading the hockey operations.  However, I like Darcy's work over the last 2 years.  He has done a great job maximizing return for the team assets.  I'm more concerned about 'how' the returned assets will be managed.

#32 Ghost of Dwight Drane

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 02:14 PM

View PostSpndnchz, on 08 May 2013 - 01:51 PM, said:

Correct with the painted part.  I think he kept the mask because he was winning and was superstitious.

Marty is cray-cray....in a good way.

And I can forgive Regier for trading him as he was an asset and could be looked upon as a capable starter somewhere......but the revolving door of backups that came in afterward never found a balance with Miller. I think Miller can be a top 5 goalie if he played 55-62 games a year. It's right there for us to see at the end of every season.......even without the playoffs, Miller drops a lot of weight by the end to the point it is noticable. I find it amazing this staff has not seen that as an issue all these years.

When were the Sabres at their best? '05-'06 and '06-'07........how many regular season games did Miller play? 48 and 63.......Going forward? 76...69 plus the olympics.....66.....and 61, even though he was injured for a long stretch. This year he was on pace for 68 over a full season.

There ARE goalies out there who can thrive under a giant workload, but they are becoming more rare given the pace and size of the game these days. We were spoiled with Hasek because he was a pure freak of nature.....but other than guys like Brodeur, Price, and maybe a few others.....the league has finally figured out it make sense to space your breadwinning goalie properly to have him in peak form come a playoff run.

#33 Kristian

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 02:46 PM

View PostTheMadKat, on 08 May 2013 - 02:12 PM, said:

I personally believe there are more people within the organization involved in the player acquisition and contract negotiation decision-making process than Darcy.  I do not like the outcome of the ORGANIZATIONAL decisions but I do not solely blame Darcy for all of them.  There are too many unknown factors to place all the blame on Darcy.  Unless - of course- you were part of the decision making process and witnessed Darcy making all the decisions on his own.  

Totally agree w/ point on Briere and it was HUGE blunder.  Darcy took responsibility for the decision.

I think Kotalik and Dumont are comparable players in a lot of respects.  Impossible to know but I personally believe Kotalik could have had similar success on a line w/ Briere.  Just ask Leino....  

RFA and UFAs have choices in the process too.  There are two sides to a negotiation.  Some players may choose to negotiate after reaching RFA in hopes of an offer sheet and others may choose to 'walk' regardless of the offer.  Just a couple of scenarios I've considered personally.

All that said.... I do not like the outcome over the last several years and I would prefer different personnel leading the hockey operations.  However, I like Darcy's work over the last 2 years.  He has done a great job maximizing return for the team assets.  I'm more concerned about 'how' the returned assets will be managed.

While I agree they are somewhat comparable in talent (2nd or 3rd line wingers), I completely disagree that they are comparable in other respects.

Dumont was a player who hustled and got his nose dirty more often than not, while Kotalik was a career loafer - In fact, I think Drew Stafford may be trying to mold himself after Kotalik.

#34 X. Benedict

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 02:48 PM

View PostKristian, on 08 May 2013 - 02:46 PM, said:

While I agree they are somewhat comparable in talent (2nd or 3rd line wingers), I completely disagree that they are comparable in other respects.

Dumont was a player who hustled and got his nose dirty more often than not, while Kotalik was a career loafer - In fact, I think Drew Stafford may be trying to mold himself after Kotalik.

Kotalik wasn't a loafer....he just lacked the natural instinct of a Canadian kid that has played 4000 hours on a pond.
He couldn't think his way through a game.

He did have a nice backhand shootout move though.

#35 thesportsbuff

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 02:54 PM

It is so ridiculous to list things like "didn't find a #1 center to trade for" and "didn't sign so & so" or "didn't trade for so & so" to inflate your list of bad Darcy moves. Other than Philly trading Richards & Carter (for a return we couldn't repeat with, not to mention out west), I can't think of a single "#1 Center" who has been traded in the last 5 or more years. It just doesn't happen. Darcy instead acquired Hodgson, a guy that we hope (and has done a pretty good job so far) can be a #1 center someday... so how is that not targeting a NHL ready center again?

"Not signing Zubrus" - Meh. He was a rental that provided some much needed size but overall was not that important. It's easy, in retrospect, to say sure we should have signed him because we need more size, but at the time I had no problem letting him go. Probably had something to do with his 0 goals thru 15 playoff games that year.

Losing Tallinder & Lydman... Again, sure based on the state of the team right now, I guess we should have kept them. But at the time, the Sabres had just gotten destroyed by Boston in the first round after missing playoffs two years in a row. Myers looked like a future all-star.

"Wasting time with aging Robyn Regehr"-- i guess now is a good time to let you know that Tallinder, Lydman and Zubrus are all older than Regehr.

Blaming Grigorekno for the Sabres "not trading up" is just plain stupid.

The only real "mistake" Darcy made was letting BOTH Briere and Drury escape to free agency that year, and no one will ever know the 100% factual reasons and chain of events that led to that happening. If Pegula were the owner back then I would bet my bottom dollar that at least one, if not both, would have re-signed.

The rest of your list is simply decisions that GMs have to make... some end well, others don't. Not necessarily a "mistake" to let someone walk who was going to demand an inflated contract and didn't play that big of a role on your team.

#36 IKnowPhysics

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 03:23 PM

View Postthesportsbuff, on 08 May 2013 - 02:54 PM, said:

It is so ridiculous

How dare you point out how retarded this thread is.

#37 TrueBluePhD

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 03:35 PM

View PostIKnowPhysics, on 08 May 2013 - 03:23 PM, said:

How dare you point out how retarded this thread is.

It's almost as bad as absolving Regier of all blame for the current state of the team. Surely there's some reasonable middle ground between everything is his fault and nothing is his fault.

#38 IKnowPhysics

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 03:54 PM

View PostTrueBluePhD, on 08 May 2013 - 03:35 PM, said:

It's almost as bad as absolving Regier of all blame for the current state of the team.
Who does this?  Hopefully I dont give that impression.  If I do unintentionally give that impression, it's likely because of the amount of hyperbole I have to sometimes inject into counterarguments.  Regier's a capable GM, but there are other deficiencies on this team also (like some of the ###### players!), and that's the point I try to drive.  In before "GM is ultimately responsible hurrrr."  Which he is.

View PostTrueBluePhD, on 08 May 2013 - 03:35 PM, said:

Surely there's some reasonable middle ground between everything is his fault and nothing is his fault.
Oh, there is.  It's reality.  But finding enough balance and perception to accurately describe reality escapes many, many posters, probably including myself.

It's very difficult to argue for the case of moderation.  Often times there's not enough leverage in the argument against the extremely stupid.

#39 Icehole

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 05:16 PM

View PostIKnowPhysics, on 08 May 2013 - 03:23 PM, said:

How dare you point out how retarded this thread is.

Oh, I don't deny Darcy has a talent for trading assets for talent, what is most frustrating with his decision making is his inability to identify and keep the talent he currently has and get rid of the dead wood, and that is where his biggest blunders have been.

I think this thread needed to be done because the argument is consistently made that TPegs wants to give Regier a chance under his ownership, though many here believe he has already had plenty of chances which the above lists attempt to quantify his record of foul ups.

I disagree, letting go on D of Tallinder and Lydman who at the time the Sabres top 2 D was a big mistake and were largely replaced by an aging Regher and turnover prone Leopold.  Zubrus imo was a huge mistake and could have been a great asset and still is for the Devils.  You didn't watch him while he was in DC and the consistent effort he put in night in and night out..  I would take him over resigning Stafford any day.

Kasian was supposed to be a talent worth holding on to, though sending him to Couver for the two players Hodgson and Sulzer was a coop. Briere and Dumont were classic Regier mistakes.  It was known that Drury was gone and wasn't going anywhere but the Rangers his childhood favorite team.

Grigerenko may be developed into something special, but he was sold as NHL ready... NOT! The Sabres still haven't found a number 1 or 2 center and that has been a glaring hole since Drury and Briere left and Darcy still has not solved.  He tried to solve a defense that really didn't need solving to appear like he was doing something.

Erhoff's signing though great was overpiced imo given the Sabres glaring hole at center. and the attempt to turn Leino into a center was misquided at best and a redicolous waste of money better used to overpay for an actually talented center or trade for a high enough draft pick to go after an NHL ready one.  

The Sabres are still weak up the middle on their first two lines and it has been how many years that this gaping hole has not been solved by Darcy.  I think he has had enough time so such a list while rhetorical only clarifies for the uninformed the vitriole aimed at Darcy.

Edited by North Buffalo, 08 May 2013 - 05:18 PM.


#40 TrueBluePhD

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 05:32 PM

View PostIKnowPhysics, on 08 May 2013 - 03:54 PM, said:

Who does this?  Hopefully I dont give that impression.  If I do unintentionally give that impression, it's likely because of the amount of hyperbole I have to sometimes inject into counterarguments.  Regier's a capable GM, but there are other deficiencies on this team also (like some of the ###### players!), and that's the point I try to drive.  In before "GM is ultimately responsible hurrrr."  Which he is.


Oh, there is.  It's reality.  But finding enough balance and perception to accurately describe reality escapes many, many posters, probably including myself.

It's very difficult to argue for the case of moderation.  Often times there's not enough leverage in the argument against the extremely stupid.

Arguments have sprung up such as "everything that's wrong with the team right now is an artifact of decisions made under previous ownership which Darcy can't be blamed for" and "criticisms of Regier are based entirely on hindsight, since everybody likes what he does when he does it".  You had Promotherobot making the hilarious argument that the results were all the coach's fault (gee, and who chose to hire and keep that coach employed?).  Heck, the post by Sportsbuff above that you quoted said the only mistake he could be blamed or is losing both the co-caps.  I rarely agree with Drane, but money was spent during those years, Regier just chose the wrong guys to retain for whatever reason.  Of course that's based on hindsight, but how the hell else do professionals get evaluated?  Nobody gets evaluated based on having good ideas, we all get evaluated on having good ideas that actually freakin' work.