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Vanek and Miller gone in the offseason?


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#1 LabattBlue

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 07:20 AM

Paul Hamilton is full of himself, but this morning I thought he was really reaching.  He stated that based on DR's comments at the PC yesterday, that Miller and Vanek will both be traded in the offseason.  Anyone else read between the lines, and form that same opinion?

Don't get me wrong, I think it is a possibility that one of them is moved(which may then cause the other one to ask for a trade), but I don't think it is guaranteed to happen.

#2 26CornerBlitz

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 07:23 AM

View PostLabattBlue, on 04 April 2013 - 07:20 AM, said:

Paul Hamilton is full of himself, but this morning I thought he was really reaching.  He stated that based on DR's comments at the PC yesterday, that Miller and Vanek will both be traded in the offseason.  Anyone else read between the lines, and form that same opinion?

Don't get me wrong, I think it is a possibility that one of them is moved(which may then cause the other one to ask for a trade), but I don't think it is guaranteed to happen.

Could go either way IMO. Depends on how Darcy's conversations with them go in describing what the plan is moving forward and what that plan's time frame is.

Hamilton's opining is just conjecture.

#3 LGR4GM

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 07:25 AM

View PostLabattBlue, on 04 April 2013 - 07:20 AM, said:

Paul Hamilton is full of himself, but this morning I thought he was really reaching.  He stated that based on DR's comments at the PC yesterday, that Miller and Vanek will both be traded in the offseason.  Anyone else read between the lines, and form that same opinion?

Don't get me wrong, I think it is a possibility that one of them is moved(which may then cause the other one to ask for a trade), but I don't think it is guaranteed to happen.
I was thinking about this post Pominville trade as well. I do not think it is a guarantee they go in the offseason.  I do think it is highly likely and at this juncture it makes sense to trade them prior to the 2013 NHL draft.  We just traded our most consistent player in Pominville and I see no reason to keep Vanek who has stated he is fine with a 1 year rebuild, which this isn't.  As for Ryan Miller, he has value now and he probably will also not resign here.  Trade him, get max value and let us move on. As far as I am concerned we are in full rebuild mode at this point.

#4 Dave Dryden

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 07:36 AM

To me, Darcy looks and sounds like a spurned lover.  After defending his core for years, and making tweak after tweak-- including firing Lindy-- he has now decided his love of the core is unrequited and he must kill them all.  So I suspect he will trade Vanek and Miller, as he is now in rebuilding the team from scratch mode over the next 3-5 years ala the Penguins pre-Crosby.

I think the only way the start from scratch approach is avoided and Miller and Vanek stay is if Regier is fired.  A new set of objective eyes could come in and decide that there is enough left on this team to form a reasonably talented core-- e.g. Vanek, Miller, Hodgson, Ehrhoff, Myers, Foligno, Ott, Grogorenko, Sekera.  In other words reload not rebuild as Regier seems to have concluded.Then with all the picks Regier has stockpiled, make a big trade to get top tier talent, i.e. one or two more core pieces. Add a couple of free agents, and maybe you can be decent quickly while building for the future as well. I don't know if that would work, but I see no chance of that happening with Regier here given the way he spoke yesterday.

Edited by Dave Dryden, 04 April 2013 - 07:38 AM.


#5 Eleven

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 07:39 AM

Taking Vanek's remarks into account, and considering the apparent strategy of taking some time to turn the team around, I think it's a fairly educated guess to say that he'll be traded.

Considering the same strategy and Miller's age--even though goalies can last longer than skaters--same conclusion.

#6 Peppy22

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 07:40 AM

I can see it happen...

Likely?
Vanek 80%
Miller 50%

Thats what I think

#7 papazoid

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 07:42 AM

I think it is more likely that Darcy will not be around to make that decision......

#8 26CornerBlitz

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 07:43 AM

View Postpapazoid, on 04 April 2013 - 07:42 AM, said:

I think it is more likely that Darcy will not be around to make that decision......

Wishful thinking. The owner and management group are committed to Regier.

#9 nucci

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 07:44 AM

I think Miller goes because he won't be re-signed to a new deal here. Still a good goalie and can probably get a good return but not worth another big contract on a rebuilding team. JMO but I think Vanek wants to leave.

#10 Sabre Dance

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 07:48 AM

Miller is more likely to go than Vanek.  There are going to be a couple of vacancies in goal next season plus no one wants to take on Luongo's contract so count him out of going anywhere. Miller would make a solid backup for some young goaltending stud. He could help coach him along and play 20-25% of the team's games.
Vanek will likely start the season as a Sabre, but if the team doesn't do well through the first part of the season (and at this point, how well they do next season is very much up in the air), he can still be traded for assets.

#11 nucci

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 07:50 AM

View PostSabre Dance, on 04 April 2013 - 07:48 AM, said:

Miller is more likely to go than Vanek.  There are going to be a couple of vacancies in goal next season plus no one wants to take on Luongo's contract so count him out of going anywhere. Miller would make a solid backup for some young goaltending stud. He could help coach him along and play 20-25% of the team's games.
Vanek will likely start the season as a Sabre, but if the team doesn't do well through the first part of the season (and at this point, how well they do next season is very much up in the air), he can still be traded for assets.
If Miller is traded it won't be to be a backup. I doubt he would want to help coach a young goaltender. Goalies like Miller are starters until they retire.

#12 papazoid

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 07:51 AM

View Post26CornerBlitz, on 04 April 2013 - 07:43 AM, said:

Wishful thinking. The owner and management group are committed to Regier.

wasn't too long ago I remember Terry Pegula saying he adores Lindy and "that he’s not going anywhere".

#13 Peppy22

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 07:53 AM

Miller a Backup? hahahaha no way...

Vanek said he isnt really interested in staying on a team that needs 2-3 years to develop. Which would be the case in Buffalo. So I think he is more likely to go. Miller could be traded but I dunno who would take him. Sabres/AMerks have a bunch of goalies now.

#14 ChileanSeaBass

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 07:55 AM

I think they're both gone before training camp starts.

#15 26CornerBlitz

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 07:57 AM

View Postpapazoid, on 04 April 2013 - 07:51 AM, said:

wasn't too long ago I remember Terry Pegula saying he adores Lindy and "that he’s not going anywhere".

If Darcy was going anywhere he'd have already been gone and you simply cannot ignore the contract extension he signed in the prior to this season.

#16 dudacek

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 08:00 AM

I think Darcy is ready to move them, but it really depends on June and July, where the Sabres will be busy.
They will be available leading up to the draft but they won't be dumped for a bag of pucks, or even a Pommer-style deal.
Darcy is changing the core. If they can be used to acquire core assets they will be gone.

If they survive that phase, they will be approached about extensions in the summer.
They will consider signing if we have made other acquisitions that point to having a better team next year.
If they don't re-sign, of course they're gone. It may take until the deadline though.

Those pining for a flushing of the same old ###### should be ecstatic. It is finally happening.
But Darcy is too methodical to just decide they will be moved by a certain date.
He will be about maximizing the assets,

And from what I've seen, Darcy ain't going nowhere.

#17 Sabrefan68

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 08:01 AM

View PostEleven, on 04 April 2013 - 07:39 AM, said:

Taking Vanek's remarks into account, and considering the apparent strategy of taking some time to turn the team around, I think it's a fairly educated guess to say that he'll be traded.

Considering the same strategy and Miller's age--even though goalies can last longer than skaters--same conclusion.

I totally agree Eleven.
         With Vanek's comments one would have to assume, unless they pin the C on him, that he will be gone. Somebody in the Sports Hemisphere, I think TSN, said they believe it will be Leggio to the Sabres, Hackett to the Amerks and Miller gone this summer. But that will depend on the market for goalies.
Might be some validity to this. I don't think Leggio is Miller but as a stop gap to build the team first then get a goalie might work, maybe eventually Connor Knapp. Who knows?

#18 papazoid

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 08:02 AM

View Post26CornerBlitz, on 04 April 2013 - 07:57 AM, said:



If Darcy was going anywhere he'd have already been gone and you simply cannot ignore the contract extension he signed in the prior to this season.

can you tell me any details of that contract extension ??  like length & buyout clause.....coaches and GM's get canned all the time before contracts are up.

No terms of Darcy's extension were released.

#19 26CornerBlitz

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 08:07 AM

View PostGimmeaCforOTT, on 04 April 2013 - 08:01 AM, said:

I totally agree Eleven.
With Vanek's comments one would have to assume, unless they pin the C on him, that he will be gone. Somebody in the Sports Hemisphere, I think TSN, said they believe it will be Leggio to the Sabres, Hackett to the Amerks and Miller gone this summer. But that will depend on the market for goalies.
Might be some validity to this. I don't think Leggio is Miller but as a stop gap to build the team first then get a goalie might work, maybe eventually Connor Knapp. Who knows?

They certainly do not lack for Goaltender prospects between Enroth, Leggio, Knapp, Hackett, Makarov,  and Ullmark.  Miller is more likely gone than Vanek IMO.

View Postpapazoid, on 04 April 2013 - 08:02 AM, said:

can you tell me any details of that contract extension ??  like length & buyout clause.....coaches and GM's get canned all the time before contracts are up.

No terms of Darcy's extension were released.

I do not have the details as I don't believe that they were released publicly.  But listen to the organizational statements and look at the moves Darcy is being allowed to make.  Therein lies your answer.

#20 LGR4GM

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 08:12 AM

View PostGimmeaCforOTT, on 04 April 2013 - 08:01 AM, said:

I totally agree Eleven.
With Vanek's comments one would have to assume, unless they pin the C on him, that he will be gone. Somebody in the Sports Hemisphere, I think TSN, said they believe it will be Leggio to the Sabres, Hackett to the Amerks and Miller gone this summer. But that will depend on the market for goalies.
Might be some validity to this. I don't think Leggio is Miller but as a stop gap to build the team first then get a goalie might work, maybe eventually Connor Knapp. Who knows?
With Vanek's comments this is Briere/Drury all over. Lets trade the guy who has stated he wants to stay and keep the guy who has stated he wants to go.

As for goalies, Makarov/Ullmark will eventually be the #1 in Buffalo and I judge that by the eye test so I could be completely wrong but it is my gut instinct for netminder 3yrs from now.

#21 papazoid

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 08:12 AM

View Post26CornerBlitz, on 04 April 2013 - 08:07 AM, said:





I do not have the details as I don't believe that they were released publicly.  But listen to the organizational statements and look at the moves Darcy is being allowed to make.  Therein lies your answer.

Ted Black said Darcy must get approval...err input from above on all his moves.

you might be right, but I think Darcy just like Buddy Nix, will be gone after their respective drafts are over.

#22 LGR4GM

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 08:18 AM

View Postpapazoid, on 04 April 2013 - 08:12 AM, said:

Ted Black said Darcy must get approval...err input from above on all his moves.

you might be right, but I think Darcy just like Buddy Nix, will be gone after their respective drafts are over.
Darcy Regier just traded a player that was drafted by, captain of, and top line on the Sabres, you don't let a GM you plan to let go in June negotiate that deal.

#23 bobis

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 08:25 AM

View PostPeppy22, on 04 April 2013 - 07:53 AM, said:

Miller a Backup? hahahaha no way...


I don't know, just had a team trade one of their 3 goalies that are better than our #1. There are a number of teams that have 2 goalies better than our #1 right now. Although unlikely, Miller being a backup somewhere next year isn't 100% out of the question, there are a lot of goalies better than him.

#24 ThirtyEight

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 08:29 AM

View PostPeppy22, on 04 April 2013 - 07:53 AM, said:

Vanek said he isnt really interested in staying on a team that needs 2-3 years to develop. Which would be the case in Buffalo. So I think he is more likely to go. Miller could be traded but I dunno who would take him. Sabres/AMerks have a bunch of goalies now.

View Post26CornerBlitz, on 04 April 2013 - 08:07 AM, said:

They certainly do not lack for Goaltender prospects between Enroth, Leggio, Knapp, Hackett, Makarov,  and Ullmark.  Miller is more likely gone than Vanek IMO.

We have no good goalie prospects. Leggio is closest to being in the NHL, but he is a journeyman back-up at best. Hacket is our closest prospect but doesn't seem too amazing based on stats. Everyone else is a looooong way off.

Yes, I think both are gone. Both said they would leave if we rebuilt. That is what we are doing. Either get an informal extension in place before the draft or trade them both

#25 TrueBluePhD

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 08:30 AM

View PostLabattBlue, on 04 April 2013 - 07:20 AM, said:

Paul Hamilton is full of himself, but this morning I thought he was really reaching.  He stated that based on DR's comments at the PC yesterday, that Miller and Vanek will both be traded in the offseason.  Anyone else read between the lines, and form that same opinion?

Don't get me wrong, I think it is a possibility that one of them is moved(which may then cause the other one to ask for a trade), but I don't think it is guaranteed to happen.

I don't know if they both get moved in the offseason, but by next year's deadline I expect both to be elsewhere. We're in for a long rebuild even if they won't come out and say it, and I'd be shocked if either Vanek or Miller want to stick around for it. As a result, they get moved before they can walk for nothing.

#26 sicknfla

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 08:42 AM

First off this is not a 3-5 year rebuild. If done correctly we can easily compete for a 5-8 berth next year. DR has done the draft picks part. He has added a few prospects. Now we convert Miller and Vanek into the new core. Those 2 will easily get us 2-3 top 6 players.

Adding Hackett yesterday is all we need to know that Miller is gone. I also think that our starting goalie is not in this current group. I think Bernier ends up here. Would the kings  do Minny's #1, one of our backup goalies, and Stafford for Bernier?

Then we flip Miller for a top 6 player, picks/prospects. Vanek brings you at least another top 6 forward and a top 6 dman. Plus picks/prospects. With our surplus of cap money we add a FA or two and another teams buyout and you have completely changed your team. Cannot see how we cannot come out of this and not be competitive.I

Edited by sicknfla, 04 April 2013 - 08:45 AM.


#27 PASabreFan

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 09:03 AM

View Postsicknfla, on 04 April 2013 - 08:42 AM, said:

First off this is not a 3-5 year rebuild. If done correctly we can easily compete for a 5-8 berth next year. DR has done the draft picks part. He has added a few prospects. Now we convert Miller and Vanek into the new core. Those 2 will easily get us 2-3 top 6 players.

Adding Hackett yesterday is all we need to know that Miller is gone. I also think that our starting goalie is not in this current group. I think Bernier ends up here. Would the kings  do Minny's #1, one of our backup goalies, and Stafford for Bernier?

Then we flip Miller for a top 6 player, picks/prospects. Vanek brings you at least another top 6 forward and a top 6 dman. Plus picks/prospects. With our surplus of cap money we add a FA or two and another teams buyout and you have completely changed your team. Cannot see how we cannot come out of this and not be competitive.I

This is where I'm at, basically. I don't think Terry can tolerate a long rebuild — and it doesn't have to take five years, anyway.

John Vogl's lead today caught my eye. "It’s been a rough couple of years for the Buffalo Sabres and their fans. It’s going to get worse."

I see no reason next season has to be worse than this one — as long as logical changes are made.

#28 bunomatic

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 09:06 AM

View Postsicknfla, on 04 April 2013 - 08:42 AM, said:

First off this is not a 3-5 year rebuild. If done correctly we can easily compete for a 5-8 berth next year. DR has done the draft picks part. He has added a few prospects. Now we convert Miller and Vanek into the new core. Those 2 will easily get us 2-3 top 6 players.

Adding Hackett yesterday is all we need to know that Miller is gone. I also think that our starting goalie is not in this current group. I think Bernier ends up here. Would the kings  do Minny's #1, one of our backup goalies, and Stafford for Bernier?

Then we flip Miller for a top 6 player, picks/prospects. Vanek brings you at least another top 6 forward and a top 6 dman. Plus picks/prospects. With our surplus of cap money we add a FA or two and another teams buyout and you have completely changed your team. Cannot see how we cannot come out of this and not be competitive.I

Not sure about another teams buyout. A buyout will happen for all the wrong reasons. But who knows ?

#29 Peppy22

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 09:06 AM

View Postdrunken idiot, on 04 April 2013 - 08:25 AM, said:

I don't know, just had a team trade one of their 3 goalies that are better than our #1. There are a number of teams that have 2 goalies better than our #1 right now. Although unlikely, Miller being a backup somewhere next year isn't 100% out of the question, there are a lot of goalies better than him.

Why are we so low on Miller. He would be a starter in Detroit right now or in Philly or in Anaheim or in Boston.


View PostThirtyEight, on 04 April 2013 - 08:29 AM, said:

We have no good goalie prospects. Leggio is closest to being in the NHL, but he is a journeyman back-up at best. Hacket is our closest prospect but doesn't seem too amazing based on stats. Everyone else is a looooong way off.


No I agree as of now there isn't one but if they are rebuilding, I can see them run an unexperienced goalie in order to develop him. Maybe Regier finds a way to aquire Bernier.

Edited by Peppy22, 04 April 2013 - 09:06 AM.


#30 That Aud Smell

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 09:11 AM

Based on his recent comments, Vanek will likely ask to be moved. But with his cap hit (~$7.1M) and the anticipated rollback of the cap (to what, ~$64.3M?), I sense that the market for Vanek may be limited in terms of teams and/or depressed in terms of value. If I were another GM, I'd have to think long and hard about whether I would want to devote ~11% of my cap space to a winger who is a somewhat streaky scorer and prone to missing time with injuries.

#31 Eleven

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 09:13 AM

View PostThat Aud Smell, on 04 April 2013 - 09:11 AM, said:

Based on his recent comments, Vanek will likely ask to be moved. But with his cap hit (~$7.1M) and the anticipated rollback of the cap (to what, ~$64.3M?), I sense that the market for Vanek may be limited in terms of teams and/or depressed in terms of value. If I were another GM, I'd have to think long and hard about whether I would want to devote ~11% of my cap space to a winger who is a somewhat streaky scorer and prone to missing time with injuries.

Oh, there's a wrinkle that I'll bet a lot of us hadn't thought of.  Nice insight.

(EDIT:  That can be read as if I wrote it sarcastically.  I didn't.)

Edited by Eleven, 04 April 2013 - 09:13 AM.


#32 X. Benedict

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 09:20 AM

View PostPASabreFan, on 04 April 2013 - 09:03 AM, said:

This is where I'm at, basically. I don't think Terry can tolerate a long rebuild — and it doesn't have to take five years, anyway.

John Vogl's lead today caught my eye. "It’s been a rough couple of years for the Buffalo Sabres and their fans. It’s going to get worse."

I see no reason next season has to be worse than this one — as long as logical changes are made.
Well, it could have been an 82 game season.


As to Miller and Vanek.....I really see no reason not to cash them in for full value this summer or at next trade deadline and build from scratch.

Edited by X. Benedict, 04 April 2013 - 09:22 AM.


#33 ChileanSeaBass

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 09:26 AM

View PostEleven, on 04 April 2013 - 09:13 AM, said:

Oh, there's a wrinkle that I'll bet a lot of us hadn't thought of.  Nice insight.

(EDIT:  That can be read as if I wrote it sarcastically.  I didn't.)

It's interesting that Darcy said he and Minnesota originally had talks involving another player.  Many are speculating it was Vanek.  In taking on Pominville, Minnesota is just barely under the cap ($295 K I believe).  Trading for Vanek would have meant they'd need to move dollars the other way to clear cap space ($5.3 mil for #29, $7.1 mil for #26).  It'd be interesting to find out just how much that came into play in the trade talks with Darcy.

#34 ThirtyEight

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 09:29 AM

View PostChileanSeaBass, on 04 April 2013 - 09:26 AM, said:

It's interesting that Darcy said he and Minnesota originally had talks involving another player.  Many are speculating it was Vanek.  In taking on Pominville, Minnesota is just barely under the cap ($295 K I believe).  Trading for Vanek would have meant they'd need to move dollars the other way to clear cap space ($5.3 mil for #29, $7.1 mil for #26).  It'd be interesting to find out just how much that came into play in the trade talks with Darcy.

I presumed they asked about Pominville and Regier offered them Stafford. They wanted a right handed RW to play in their top 6. Although Vanek is right handed

#35 sicknfla

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 09:31 AM

I would think from past experience you would of heard rumblings of offering extensions by now. Not one time have you heard anyone in upper management say a word. If Vanek or Miller were in the plan you would think that now would be the time for the ole "getting Thomas or Ryan locked down is a priority this summer".

No way In hell they start next season on this team with 1 year left. I think we learned that lesson already. Their max value is this summer - not next deadline as a rental.

Edited by sicknfla, 04 April 2013 - 09:36 AM.


#36 weave

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 10:01 AM

Yeesh.  Gonna get ugly if our top 6 wingers with NHL experience are Drew Stafford and Tyler Ennis.  And that assumes Stafford doesn't get bought out this offseason.

#37 Eleven

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 10:04 AM

View Postweave, on 04 April 2013 - 10:01 AM, said:

Yeesh.  Gonna get ugly if our top 6 wingers with NHL experience are Drew Stafford and Tyler Ennis.  And that assumes Stafford doesn't get bought out this offseason.

Leino, too, but your point remains.

I wonder what I'm going to be paying for next year and the year after.  It's a LOT of money just to hold my place for when the team is fun to watch again.

#38 TrueBluePhD

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 10:07 AM

View Postsicknfla, on 04 April 2013 - 08:42 AM, said:

First off this is not a 3-5 year rebuild. If done correctly we can easily compete for a 5-8 berth next year. DR has done the draft picks part. He has added a few prospects. Now we convert Miller and Vanek into the new core. Those 2 will easily get us 2-3 top 6 players.

Adding Hackett yesterday is all we need to know that Miller is gone. I also think that our starting goalie is not in this current group. I think Bernier ends up here. Would the kings  do Minny's #1, one of our backup goalies, and Stafford for Bernier?

Then we flip Miller for a top 6 player, picks/prospects. Vanek brings you at least another top 6 forward and a top 6 dman. Plus picks/prospects. With our surplus of cap money we add a FA or two and another teams buyout and you have completely changed your team. Cannot see how we cannot come out of this and not be competitive.I

If we're a bottom-5 team with Vanek, MIller and Pominville, I'm not sure why you would think we're a bubble team if we're able to flip them for other NHL players and ludicrously overpay for somebody like Clarkson to get him to come here.  Listening to Regier and Black, I also don't think that's the plan.  Clubber Lang predicted it correctly: pain.

#39 X. Benedict

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 10:13 AM

View PostTrueBluePhD, on 04 April 2013 - 10:07 AM, said:

If we're a bottom-5 team with Vanek, MIller and Pominville, I'm not sure why you would think we're a bubble team if we're able to flip them for other NHL players and ludicrously overpay for somebody like Clarkson to get him to come here.  Listening to Regier and Black, I also don't think that's the plan.  Clubber Lang predicted it correctly: pain.

You don't build around a  winger.
It doesn't work.

#40 Taro T

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 10:22 AM

View PostGimmeaCforOTT, on 04 April 2013 - 08:01 AM, said:

I totally agree Eleven.
With Vanek's comments one would have to assume, unless they pin the C on him, that he will be gone. Somebody in the Sports Hemisphere, I think TSN, said they believe it will be Leggio to the Sabres, Hackett to the Amerks and Miller gone this summer. But that will depend on the market for goalies.
Might be some validity to this. I don't think Leggio is Miller but as a stop gap to build the team first then get a goalie might work, maybe eventually Connor Knapp. Who knows?

View Postweave, on 04 April 2013 - 10:01 AM, said:

Yeesh. Gonna get ugly if our top 6 wingers with NHL experience are Drew Stafford and Tyler Ennis.  And that assumes Stafford doesn't get bought out this offseason.
Combine those 2 thoughts, and the Sabres are definitely heading for a 30 out of 30 season next year all else being equal.  Which is a year too early if the goal is Conner McDavid.