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Darcy Regier, do you trust him with the rebuild?

Darcy Regier

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Poll: DR and the Rebuild

Do you trust Darcy Regier with the Sabres rebuild?

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#1 LGR4GM

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 03:36 PM

It has been discussed and discarded, argued and ignored.  I think I know how most people will respond but idc.  I want to know if you think DR is capable of managing a successful rebuild.  Rebuild meaning getting us back to top playoff team that is at least in the conversation of "well maybe they could make a run this year".

In his defense he has made some good trades recently. We flipped Roy and Kassian for Ott and Hodgson.  Got Ehrhoff for the next years.  He has done things and is currently in the process of possibly blowing this entire team up, so can he put it back together?

What say you?  Incompetent? Maybe? Yes?

#2 Spndnchz

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 03:41 PM

I don't think you can have a maybe there.

I think Darcy is great at trades but shouldn't be choosing the players.

#3 LGR4GM

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 03:44 PM

View PostSpndnchz, on 02 April 2013 - 03:41 PM, said:

I don't think you can have a maybe there.

I think Darcy is great at trades but shouldn't be choosing the players.
so someone else should target the players and Regier should execute the trade?

#4 Sabres Fan In NS

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 03:46 PM

NO!!

#5 Eleven

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 03:47 PM

View PostLGR4GM, on 02 April 2013 - 03:44 PM, said:

so someone else should target the players and Regier should execute the trade?

No.  Someone should target the players, but miss, and execute Regier.

#6 sizzlemeister

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 03:50 PM

nyet

#7 thesportsbuff

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 03:53 PM

I voted yes. He's done nothing but good things since Pegula's purchase of the team. Other than the Brennan trade (which, really, pfft), Darcy has gotten the better end of every trade he's made. It sucks that Ville Leino probably won't ever live up to the contract he and Darcy signed, but at the time it was better than doing nothing. Brad Richards was the only better free agent that summer and I bet if you asked Rangers fans right now, a lot of them aren't very happy with their results either.

I still don't think we're in "rebuild" mode. So far we've unloaded two rental players -- not exactly "blowing it up." If they trade Pominville that would be a major move, but you can't really call it a rebuild if Vanek, Miller, Stafford, Gerbe, Hecht, Sekera, Weber are still on the roster. We'll see this summer, but my bet is if they trade Pominville he will be the only "core" player traded. (Not including Stafford in that "core" btw)

Edited by thesportsbuff, 02 April 2013 - 03:53 PM.


#8 stenbaro

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 03:55 PM

Its time to move on from Darcy Regier. Its too bad that there 3 cornerstone players are in there prime and now is the  most opportune time to get the most for them..If he moves two of three without getting any real players of equal value back it will be as bad as losing Drury and Briere back in 07, only this time we wont have the talent of Pominville Vanek and Miller to fall back on and at least be almost average...Its kind of scary but we could be on the verge of actually becoming worse next yr than we are this year....

#9 HopefulFuture

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 03:59 PM

Regier still has a job?
He's the Teflon GM of the NHL.

#10 TrueBluePhD

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 04:04 PM

An emphatic no from me.

View Postthesportsbuff, on 02 April 2013 - 03:53 PM, said:

I voted yes. He's done nothing but good things since Pegula's purchase of the team. Other than the Brennan trade (which, really, pfft), Darcy has gotten the better end of every trade he's made. It sucks that Ville Leino probably won't ever live up to the contract he and Darcy signed, but at the time it was better than doing nothing. Brad Richards was the only better free agent that summer and I bet if you asked Rangers fans right now, a lot of them aren't very happy with their results either.

I still don't think we're in "rebuild" mode. So far we've unloaded two rental players -- not exactly "blowing it up." If they trade Pominville that would be a major move, but you can't really call it a rebuild if Vanek, Miller, Stafford, Gerbe, Hecht, Sekera, Weber are still on the roster. We'll see this summer, but my bet is if they trade Pominville he will be the only "core" player traded. (Not including Stafford in that "core" btw)

Very serious question, so please don't take this as snark: at what point do the results speak for themselves?  For a guy who has gotten the better end of every trade, his team is significantly worse now than when Pegula bought the team.  Regardless of how much you like individual moves, at what point does the team's place in the standings dictate that things are not working and a new decision-maker is required?  Two more years without making the playoffs?  Two more years without a playoff win?  You've got to have some "line" in mind.  My personal line was this year--a second consecutive year without the playoffs despite unlimited resources and time since Pegula took over to actually put them to use, and zero improvement in results since replacing the coach.

Edited by TrueBluePhD, 02 April 2013 - 04:10 PM.


#11 nfreeman

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 04:06 PM

View Postthesportsbuff, on 02 April 2013 - 03:53 PM, said:

I voted yes. He's done nothing but good things since Pegula's purchase of the team.

You have got to be kidding me.

#12 Eleven

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 04:09 PM

View Postnfreeman, on 02 April 2013 - 04:06 PM, said:

You have got to be kidding me.

What, starting a season with one center isn't a good thing?

#13 Robviously

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 04:17 PM

Way too early to say with Darcy. He's only been here since 1997. Plus I want to see what he does in the 2015 draft now that we have this extra pick.

#14 d4rksabre

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 04:18 PM

I don't trust him, but that really doesn't matter does it?

#15 LabattBlue

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 04:21 PM

Huge difference between winning a trade/hitting on a couple of draft picks and BUILDING A TEAM.  He sucks at the latter and should be canned within minutes of the last game of the season.

#16 Grumpy

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 04:38 PM

NO!  Unless he's had an epipheny.(It is Easter week!)

#17 PromoTheRobot

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 05:14 PM

View PostLabattBlue, on 02 April 2013 - 04:21 PM, said:

Huge difference between winning a trade/hitting on a couple of draft picks and BUILDING A TEAM.  He sucks at the latter and should be canned within minutes of the last game of the season.
It's not the GMs job to build the team. That's the coaches job. GMs shop for talent. Coaches can give input there but have to make the parts work. Tyler Myers sucking is not Darcy's fault.

PTR

#18 thesportsbuff

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 05:14 PM

View PostTrueBluePhD, on 02 April 2013 - 04:04 PM, said:

Very serious question, so please don't take this as snark: at what point do the results speak for themselves?  For a guy who has gotten the better end of every trade, his team is significantly worse now than when Pegula bought the team.  Regardless of how much you like individual moves, at what point does the team's place in the standings dictate that things are not working and a new decision-maker is required?  Two more years without making the playoffs?  Two more years without a playoff win?  You've got to have some "line" in mind.  My personal line was this year--a second consecutive year without the playoffs despite unlimited resources and time since Pegula took over to actually put them to use, and zero improvement in results since replacing the coach.

Exactly how is this team significantly worse than when Pegula bought them? The year Pegula bought the team, it required a 16-4-4 finish to sneak into 7th place and lose in the first round of the playoffs. Last year the team went on a run at the end of the season and fell a few points short of the playoffs. This year we're in the same position -- we could go on a big run and make playoffs, or more likely we won't go on a big run and we'll wind up a handful of points short. So if we're basing the skill-level of the team on results, which is fair, then this team has neither improved nor regressed "significantly" since Pegula purchased it.

That doesn't mean it wasn't for lack of trying. You say you want a new decision maker. What benefits would a different GM have provided for us last summer? Would a different GM have not signed the second-best free agent available because he had some incredible foresight that Leino wouldn't be worth it? Would a different GM have not traded Derek Roy like everyone on this board has been clamoring for for upwards of four years now? You guys are quick to jump on Darcy because what he's doing isn't working, but you have to realize there simply aren't that many options available. A different GM doesn't mean we can suddenly trade for Sidney Crosby. A different GM doesn't mean suddenly there are tons of top notch UFA's for us to sign. And a different GM doesn't mean suddenly someone is going to give us a 1st round pick for TJ Brennan. Darcy is working with what he has to improve the team.

The Hodgson trade was easily the best trade Darcy has made since the 04-05 lockout. Kassian is now playing in the AHL while Hodgson is a #1 center with a bright future. This move also had Vanek and Pommer playing at world-class levels to start the season. This was the first time Vanek had a legit #1 center since Derek Roy's 80 point season and he was among league leaders in points and goals for the first several weeks. It's not a fluke that they played so well together. Hodgson is by far the most important piece of this team's future -- we wouldn't have him if Darcy didn't have the balls to trade our "top prospect" for him.

Additionally, Darcy has done pretty well drafting. Ennis, Myers, Foligno, Armia, Grigorenko, McCabe- the list goes on. And we also can't forget that Darcy traded UP to get Myers, got the Ennis pick for trading a overpaid Brian Campbell, and landed Nashville's first (Girgensons) for Paul Gaustad. Those were all good trades made with the team's future in mind.

So it's interesting to me that everyone says, "fire darcy because he can't choose the players" yet the same people want to "rebuild" around these guys that Darcy drafted? I guess he did do a pretty good job choosing the players if these are the guys you want to rebuild around, huh?

I know you guys are sick of hearing it but Darcy hasn't had enough time under Pegula. Obviously Terry's way of running things has made a difference, as Darcy has been more pro-active than ever before in trying to acquire good players. He's had two mediocre free agent classes to work with (but still wound up with two of the big name free agents, Ehrhoff and Leino). And now, courtesy of the new CBA, he'll have the option to buy out Leino at no real cost should he choose to this summer, thus negating the only "bad" move Darcy has made under Pegula (i don't think they buy out Leino personally though).

So where are we now? We're outside of the playoff picture, yes. But we have a #1 center, the most important piece of the puzzle, who is only going to get better moving forward. We have a ton of young talent, with Ennis, Foligno, Tropp, Armia, Grigorenko, Girgensons factoring into our forward ranks over the next few years, along with McNabb, Pysyk, McCabe, and maybe more in the pipeline on defense. We have a legit world-class goal scorer in Vanek, and maybe not the best, but still very solid all around RW in Pominville. A Top 10, arguably Top 5 goalie in the world in net. A nice injection of grit and energy with Steve Ott, Tropp, Foligno, Kaleta in the bottom six. Not to mention a nice allotment of picks (and probably more on the way) over the next 2-3 drafts. Scott and Gerbe I expect will be the odd men out and eventually be let go.

The thing is, everyone looks at the results this season and says oh it's finally time to blow it up and rebuild. Well Darcy is one step ahead of you. He has been "rebuilding" for years. that's what the draft is for. that's what the hodgson trade was all about, and grigorenko (gaustad). hell, that's what the Roy trade was about too. Unfortunately we haven't been lucky enough to have an elite UFA class for Darcy to pick through yet, but we will be reaping the benefits of good drafting and good trading before too long.

sorry if you disagree, i don't mean to sound snarky either, just stating my opinion. Darcy's body of work under Pegula is worthy of more time in my opinion. the team's body of work? not so much. But only so much of that can be blamed on Darcy.

To answer your question, the results never speak for themselves. there's always more to the story.

Edited by thesportsbuff, 02 April 2013 - 06:02 PM.


#19 thesportsbuff

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 05:31 PM

View Postnfreeman, on 02 April 2013 - 04:06 PM, said:

You have got to be kidding me.

what's a "bad" thing Darcy has done since Pegula took over?  "Didn't sign Brad Richards" and "Didn't trade for Crosby" don't count.

#20 Spndnchz

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 05:40 PM

View Postthesportsbuff, on 02 April 2013 - 05:31 PM, said:



what's a "bad" thing Darcy has done since Pegula took over?  "Didn't sign Brad Richards" and "Didn't trade for Crosby" don't count.

Didn't lower beer prices!

#21 Glass Case Of Emotion

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 05:46 PM

View PostEleven, on 02 April 2013 - 03:47 PM, said:

No.  Someone should target the players, but miss, and execute Regier.

This is outstanding. Top On-liner post material.

Excellent work. I'll be placing a nice commendation in your personnel file.

#22 Taro T

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 05:56 PM

View PostLastPommerFan, on 02 April 2013 - 05:46 PM, said:



This is outstanding. Top On-liner post material.

Excellent work. I'll be placing a nice commendation in your personnel file.
Do you really think anyone on LetsGoHabs.com will care? :P

#23 Glass Case Of Emotion

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 05:57 PM

View PostTaro T, on 02 April 2013 - 05:56 PM, said:

Do you really think anyone on LetsGoHabs.com will care? :P

11's not getting traded. Used to be no captains got traded from the Sabres. Just another thing Ruff ruined.

#24 Taro T

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 06:02 PM

View PostLastPommerFan, on 02 April 2013 - 05:57 PM, said:



11's not getting traded.
Used to be no captains got traded from the Sabres. Just another thing Ruff ruined.
Shouldn't have taken that as an implication he would be.  We'll miss you.  I just hope we get more than just picks for you.  We'll need a new high motor guy as well. ;)

#25 Glass Case Of Emotion

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 06:08 PM

View PostTaro T, on 02 April 2013 - 06:02 PM, said:

Shouldn't have taken that as an implication he would be.  We'll miss you.  I just hope we get more than just picks for you.  We'll need a new high motor guy as well. ;)

Would I be surprised if I'm still here at 3:01 tomorrow? Probably not.

#26 weave

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 06:13 PM

"It's not the GM's job to build the team"?  Did I really just read that?

#27 Taro T

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 06:19 PM

View PostLastPommerFan, on 02 April 2013 - 06:08 PM, said:



Would I be surprised if I'm still here at 3:01 tomorrow? Probably not.
How about day after the draft?

View Postweave, on 02 April 2013 - 06:13 PM, said:

"It's not the GM's job to build the team"?  Did I really just read that?
Yup. :doh:

#28 thesportsbuff

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 06:26 PM

One more thing I forgot to add to my post... yes we replaced Lindy Ruff. We replaced one member of an entire coaching staff. I'll be the first to admit I'm not a big x's and o's guy. I can't tell you if the team is playing a "different system" under Rolston than under Ruff (it doesn't seem that way to the naked eye tho). But I still see James Patrick and Kevyn Adams giving the orders half of the time, including on our abysmal powerplay. Firing Lindy was the GM's equivalent of a coach pulling his starting goalie after a bad first period. You do it because you hope it will create a spark -- but under the surface, nothing really changed at all.

#29 nfreeman

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 07:18 PM

View Postthesportsbuff, on 02 April 2013 - 05:31 PM, said:

what's a "bad" thing Darcy has done since Pegula took over?  "Didn't sign Brad Richards" and "Didn't trade for Crosby" don't count.

Dear me.

How 'bout this:

The GM of a hockey team has ultimate responsibility for creating a successful team, and is ultimately accountable when the team is unsuccessful.

By definition, when the team is terrible, as the Sabres are, the GM has failed.

The cheapskate owner excuse (which was real, IMHO) has been gone since TP arrived.

The injury excuse of last year (which was BS, IMHO) is not applicable this year.

The Lindy excuse (also BS IMHO) is gone.

The team stinks.

Darcy has failed.

Darcy must go.

#30 thesportsbuff

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 07:24 PM

View Postnfreeman, on 02 April 2013 - 07:18 PM, said:

The cheapskate owner excuse (which was real, IMHO) has been gone since TP arrived.

The injury excuse of last year (which was BS, IMHO) is not applicable this year.

The Lindy excuse (also BS IMHO) is gone.


I guess then, what I'm saying, is that the cheapskate owner excuse (that you agree was at least a legitimate excuse) is still in play. He's had two off-seasons to work with, neither of which had strong free agent classes. I don't care who our GM is. Insert Penguins GM, insert Kings GM -- whoever. If the resources aren't there, ie there aren't any superstar free agents, there is little more a GM can do to improve the team outside of drafting and trading. I like the drafting, I like the trades we've made. Not sure who's a UFA this summer but if we land a Top 6 forward and a Top 4 d-man, we're a playoff team next year. Then you build on it, until you're a cup contender.

#31 tom webster

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 07:25 PM

View Postthesportsbuff, on 02 April 2013 - 05:14 PM, said:

Exactly how is this team significantly worse than when Pegula bought them? The year Pegula bought the team, it required a 16-4-4 finish to sneak into 7th place and lose in the first round of the playoffs. Last year the team went on a run at the end of the season and fell a few points short of the playoffs. This year we're in the same position -- we could go on a big run and make playoffs, or more likely we won't go on a big run and we'll wind up a handful of points short. So if we're basing the skill-level of the team on results, which is fair, then this team has neither improved nor regressed "significantly" since Pegula purchased it.

That doesn't mean it wasn't for lack of trying. You say you want a new decision maker. What benefits would a different GM have provided for us last summer? Would a different GM have not signed the second-best free agent available because he had some incredible foresight that Leino wouldn't be worth it? Would a different GM have not traded Derek Roy like everyone on this board has been clamoring for for upwards of four years now? You guys are quick to jump on Darcy because what he's doing isn't working, but you have to realize there simply aren't that many options available. A different GM doesn't mean we can suddenly trade for Sidney Crosby. A different GM doesn't mean suddenly there are tons of top notch UFA's for us to sign. And a different GM doesn't mean suddenly someone is going to give us a 1st round pick for TJ Brennan. Darcy is working with what he has to improve the team.

The Hodgson trade was easily the best trade Darcy has made since the 04-05 lockout. Kassian is now playing in the AHL while Hodgson is a #1 center with a bright future. This move also had Vanek and Pommer playing at world-class levels to start the season. This was the first time Vanek had a legit #1 center since Derek Roy's 80 point season and he was among league leaders in points and goals for the first several weeks. It's not a fluke that they played so well together. Hodgson is by far the most important piece of this team's future -- we wouldn't have him if Darcy didn't have the balls to trade our "top prospect" for him.

Additionally, Darcy has done pretty well drafting. Ennis, Myers, Foligno, Armia, Grigorenko, McCabe- the list goes on. And we also can't forget that Darcy traded UP to get Myers, got the Ennis pick for trading a overpaid Brian Campbell, and landed Nashville's first (Girgensons) for Paul Gaustad. Those were all good trades made with the team's future in mind.

So it's interesting to me that everyone says, "fire darcy because he can't choose the players" yet the same people want to "rebuild" around these guys that Darcy drafted? I guess he did do a pretty good job choosing the players if these are the guys you want to rebuild around, huh?

I know you guys are sick of hearing it but Darcy hasn't had enough time under Pegula. Obviously Terry's way of running things has made a difference, as Darcy has been more pro-active than ever before in trying to acquire good players. He's had two mediocre free agent classes to work with (but still wound up with two of the big name free agents, Ehrhoff and Leino). And now, courtesy of the new CBA, he'll have the option to buy out Leino at no real cost should he choose to this summer, thus negating the only "bad" move Darcy has made under Pegula (i don't think they buy out Leino personally though).

So where are we now? We're outside of the playoff picture, yes. But we have a #1 center, the most important piece of the puzzle, who is only going to get better moving forward. We have a ton of young talent, with Ennis, Foligno, Tropp, Armia, Grigorenko, Girgensons factoring into our forward ranks over the next few years, along with McNabb, Pysyk, McCabe, and maybe more in the pipeline on defense. We have a legit world-class goal scorer in Vanek, and maybe not the best, but still very solid all around RW in Pominville. A Top 10, arguably Top 5 goalie in the world in net. A nice injection of grit and energy with Steve Ott, Tropp, Foligno, Kaleta in the bottom six. Not to mention a nice allotment of picks (and probably more on the way) over the next 2-3 drafts. Scott and Gerbe I expect will be the odd men out and eventually be let go.

The thing is, everyone looks at the results this season and says oh it's finally time to blow it up and rebuild. Well Darcy is one step ahead of you. He has been "rebuilding" for years. that's what the draft is for. that's what the hodgson trade was all about, and grigorenko (gaustad). hell, that's what the Roy trade was about too. Unfortunately we haven't been lucky enough to have an elite UFA class for Darcy to pick through yet, but we will be reaping the benefits of good drafting and good trading before too long.

sorry if you disagree, i don't mean to sound snarky either, just stating my opinion. Darcy's body of work under Pegula is worthy of more time in my opinion. the team's body of work? not so much. But only so much of that can be blamed on Darcy.

To answer your question, the results never speak for themselves. there's always more to the story.

It's the general managers job to make sure that the whole is greater then the sum of the parts. By "winning" trades but failing to see what pieces the team needs, you end up with a "flawed" team where you expect Ennis and Hodgson to co exist as your two centers and both have to sit when the other team's top center is on the ice or when an important defensive zone face off is happening. There are a whole assortment of other ills on the present day roster that I will leave to the X's and O's guys to disseminate.

On top of that, the pipeline is vastly overrated by some on this board. Read some un-biased assessments and you will see that only Girgerenko and Armia are considered top line material and while some of the defensemen are considered top 4 material, none of them are considered top pairing potential and the best goalie prospect was signed as an undrafted free agent.

#32 bunomatic

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 07:27 PM

I voted no. I don't have the energy to go into the reasons. Occasionally he makes a move that is good I'll give him that but collectively his body of work sukcs. Look at the product on the ice. Nuff said.

#33 nfreeman

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 07:30 PM

View Postthesportsbuff, on 02 April 2013 - 07:24 PM, said:

I guess then, what I'm saying, is that the cheapskate owner excuse (that you agree was at least a legitimate excuse) is still in play. He's had two off-seasons to work with, neither of which had strong free agent classes. I don't care who our GM is. Insert Penguins GM, insert Kings GM -- whoever. If the resources aren't there, ie there aren't any superstar free agents, there is little more a GM can do to improve the team outside of drafting and trading. I like the drafting, I like the trades we've made. Not sure who's a UFA this summer but if we land a Top 6 forward and a Top 4 d-man, we're a playoff team next year. Then you build on it, until you're a cup contender.

None of Toronto, Montreal and Ottawa has signed a good FA in forever.  Each is a better team than the Sabres -- and each is on the upswing while the Sabres bottom out.

#34 IKnowPhysics

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 07:49 PM

View Postthesportsbuff, on 02 April 2013 - 03:53 PM, said:

I voted yes. He's done nothing but good things since Pegula's purchase of the team. Other than the Brennan trade (which, really, pfft), Darcy has gotten the better end of every trade he's made.

I voted yes, but not because the supporting argument is that he's done bullet proof work, so here's my two word counterargument to yours: Brad Boyes.  (FTR, I'm fine with moving Brennan to FLA, and I'm generally happy with most other moves he's made.)

I voted yes because, from the evidence I've observed and the root cause analysis I do in my own head, the bad record is neither incompetence on the GM's part nor incompetence on the coach's part.  The fault lies with the players that underperformed.  To do root cause analysis, I use the "five whys" trick.  Engineers know what's up.

Problem: Sabres have a bad record.
Why do the Sabres have a bad record?  They lose games.
Why do they lose games?  Do they not score goals?  No.  They allow bad goals.  (I'm ignoring special teams here for a moment)
Why do they allow bad goals?  Is the defensive system bad?  No.  Is the goaltending bad?  No.  The players on the ice make bad defensive plays.
Why do the players on the ice make bad defensive plays?  Do they not try?  No.  The players make mistakes.
Why do the players make mistakes?  Are they bad players?  No.  The players have their heads up their ######. At the worst times.

I believe in player accountability.  I believe that Darcy is a competent (and quite often good: see drafting, trades, more recently contracts) GM.  I believe Ruff is a good coach.  Rolston might be a good coach.  I believe that the players that were brought here with expectations of performance have failed to meet that level of performance and that the onus of that failure is more directly on those players than it is on the GM or coach.  The GM and coach may or may not take responsibility for their failure (and they have), but that doesn't mean that they are the source of the problem.  It does mean, however, that they are most repsonsible for fixing it, and I believe they are capable of doing so.

I look forward to shipping out the bums and making the team better through trades, signings, offer sheets, and drafts.

Regier took us from 2003 to 2006; he is just as capable of advancing the team as he is regressing it.  For the record, Regier is far from untouchable.  One of the reasons I don't vote "maybe" is because it will take much of next season to see the results of this off season, especially with a new coach.

#35 Robviously

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 08:04 PM

View Postweave, on 02 April 2013 - 06:13 PM, said:

"It's not the GM's job to build the team"?  Did I really just read that?
Astonishing.  Even for that internet, that sentence was astonishing.

#36 Grumpy

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 08:34 PM

View PostIKnowPhysics, on 02 April 2013 - 07:49 PM, said:

I voted yes, but not because the supporting argument is that he's done bullet proof work, so here's my two word counterargument to yours: Brad Boyes.  (FTR, I'm fine with moving Brennan to FLA, and I'm generally happy with most other moves he's made.)

I voted yes because, from the evidence I've observed and the root cause analysis I do in my own head, the bad record is neither incompetence on the GM's part nor incompetence on the coach's part.  The fault lies with the players that underperformed.  To do root cause analysis, I use the "five whys" trick.  Engineers know what's up.

Problem: Sabres have a bad record.
Why do the Sabres have a bad record?  They lose games.
Why do they lose games?  Do they not score goals?  No.  They allow bad goals.  (I'm ignoring special teams here for a moment)
Why do they allow bad goals?  Is the defensive system bad?  No.  Is the goaltending bad?  No.  The players on the ice make bad defensive plays.
Why do the players on the ice make bad defensive plays?  Do they not try?  No.  The players make mistakes.
Why do the players make mistakes?  Are they bad players?  No.  The players have their heads up their ######. At the worst times.

I believe in player accountability.  I believe that Darcy is a competent (and quite often good: see drafting, trades, more recently contracts) GM.  I believe Ruff is a good coach.  Rolston might be a good coach.  I believe that the players that were brought here with expectations of performance have failed to meet that level of performance and that the onus of that failure is more directly on those players than it is on the GM or coach.  The GM and coach may or may not take responsibility for their failure (and they have), but that doesn't mean that they are the source of the problem.  It does mean, however, that they are most repsonsible for fixing it, and I believe they are capable of doing so.

I look forward to shipping out the bums and making the team better through trades, signings, offer sheets, and drafts.

Regier took us from 2003 to 2006; he is just as capable of advancing the team as he is regressing it.  For the record, Regier is far from untouchable.  One of the reasons I don't vote "maybe" is because it will take much of next season to see the results of this off season, especially with a new coach.
So, he has brought in good and great players, molded a wonderful team, and they simply under perform. Wow. That that sounds like ivory tower academic rhetoric to me.

Edited by Grumpy, 02 April 2013 - 08:36 PM.


#37 Eleven

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 08:44 PM

View PostIKnowPhysics, on 02 April 2013 - 07:49 PM, said:

I voted yes, but not because the supporting argument is that he's done bullet proof work, so here's my two word counterargument to yours: Brad Boyes.  (FTR, I'm fine with moving Brennan to FLA, and I'm generally happy with most other moves he's made.)

I voted yes because, from the evidence I've observed and the root cause analysis I do in my own head, the bad record is neither incompetence on the GM's part nor incompetence on the coach's part.  The fault lies with the players that underperformed.  To do root cause analysis, I use the "five whys" trick.  Engineers know what's up.

Problem: Sabres have a bad record.
Why do the Sabres have a bad record?  They lose games.
Why do they lose games?  Do they not score goals?  No.  They allow bad goals.  (I'm ignoring special teams here for a moment)
Why do they allow bad goals?  Is the defensive system bad?  No.  Is the goaltending bad?  No.  The players on the ice make bad defensive plays.
Why do the players on the ice make bad defensive plays?  Do they not try?  No.  The players make mistakes.
Why do the players make mistakes?  Are they bad players?  No.  The players have their heads up their ######. At the worst times.

I believe in player accountability.  I believe that Darcy is a competent (and quite often good: see drafting, trades, more recently contracts) GM.  I believe Ruff is a good coach.  Rolston might be a good coach.  I believe that the players that were brought here with expectations of performance have failed to meet that level of performance and that the onus of that failure is more directly on those players than it is on the GM or coach.  The GM and coach may or may not take responsibility for their failure (and they have), but that doesn't mean that they are the source of the problem.  It does mean, however, that they are most repsonsible for fixing it, and I believe they are capable of doing so.

I look forward to shipping out the bums and making the team better through trades, signings, offer sheets, and drafts.

Regier took us from 2003 to 2006; he is just as capable of advancing the team as he is regressing it.  For the record, Regier is far from untouchable.  One of the reasons I don't vote "maybe" is because it will take much of next season to see the results of this off season, especially with a new coach.

One phrase:  One center.

#38 Taro T

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 09:13 PM

View PostEleven, on 02 April 2013 - 08:44 PM, said:



One phrase:  One center.
Yeah, but in 2 years they MIGHT have 4.  PLUS a 2nd round pick that they should be able to parlay into a 4th liner.

#39 Robviously

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 09:26 PM

View PostTaro T, on 02 April 2013 - 09:13 PM, said:

Yeah, but in 2 years they MIGHT have 4.  PLUS a 2nd round pick that they should be able to parlay into a 4th liner.
Playing the long game, baby.

#40 evilempire

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 10:44 PM

I doubt Darcy will be here for the rebuild as i think Darcy is only here for the rest of the season and is being a good soldier as he is already aware of his fate.  By acquiring draft picks and shedding salary they are making the job of gm for this team way more attractive to perspective candidates.  I would think that the owner is overseeing Darcy at every corner and has to ok everything he is doing.  With the cap going down next year ( a lot of teams going to need to shed salary) and lots of ammo in draft picks and cap room a new capable gm could turn this around relatively quickly.  But then again this is buffalo.