Jump to content


Prediction time: which of the "big 3" (hah!) will be traded by Wednesday?


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
65 replies to this topic

Poll: What's gonna happen? (95 member(s) have cast votes)

Which of Vanek, Miller and Pommer be traded by the deadline? (You can choose more than one.) This question is for your PREDICTION, not your preference.

You cannot see the results of the poll until you have voted. Please login and cast your vote to see the results of this poll.

If you were the GM and could get a decent-to-good return for each of the "big 3," which of them would you trade? (You can choose more than one.)

You cannot see the results of the poll until you have voted. Please login and cast your vote to see the results of this poll.
Vote

#1 nfreeman

nfreeman

    All I want is everything you got.

  • SS Mod Team
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,982 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Brooklyn

Posted 01 April 2013 - 08:30 AM

OK, let's have your specific thoughts.

My prediction:  I think TP/TB are going to can DR after the season, which probably means no trades of the big 3 at this point, as they will want the new GM to make the call on these 3 guys.  I also think this is a mistake, because this is the time to get maximum return.

However, there is a real possibility that TP/TB have decided to give DR another year, in which case I would not be surprised to see one of them get traded, and in that case I would guess it will be Pommer.

My preference:  I think I've come full circle on this and would now prefer to trade Miller and Vanek and keep Pommer (although he cannot be the captain next year).  Here are my reasons:

1.  I think both Miller and Vanek will return better assets than Pommer will.

2.  I don't think any of them will take a pay cut to stay here, and I like Pommer at $5.3MM more than I like Vanek at $7.1MM or Miller at $6.25MM.

3.  Pommer is a better 2-way player than Vanek.

4.  Vanek gets hurt too often.

5.  Since it doesn't seem possible for the Sabres to finish better than 24th or so in the NHL at this point (I know it's possible mathematically, but it doesn't seem possible that they are better than the 6th-worst team in the NHL), I am OK with them dropping to 28th or 29th in order to get one of the top 3 studs.  Trading Miller seems most likely to ensure this outcome.

6.  Trading Miller and Vanek would free up the most cap space, which will be needed for the rebuild.

Fire away.

#2 Peppy22

Peppy22

    Fourth Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 788 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Berlin, Germany

Posted 01 April 2013 - 08:36 AM

I think Pommers will leave on Wednesday, but I think its more likely, that they all stay.

For the 2nd question. Everyone is "tradeable" ... I mean for the right piece I trade everyone.

#3 26CornerBlitz

26CornerBlitz

    1970

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,097 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Jersey

Posted 01 April 2013 - 08:37 AM

Voted Pommer and Pommer. Good player, but it's time to get him to a new destination while turning the page to a new era.

Don't think the market for Miller is there and I would not trade Vanek.

Edited by 26CornerBlitz, 01 April 2013 - 08:40 AM.


#4 obstructedorangeseats

obstructedorangeseats

    Prospect

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 206 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:USA

Posted 01 April 2013 - 08:45 AM

View PostPeppy22, on 01 April 2013 - 08:36 AM, said:

I think Pommers will leave on Wednesday, but I think its more likely, that they all stay.

For the 2nd question. Everyone is "tradeable" ... I mean for the right piece I trade everyone.

I'm on board with the "everyone is tradeable" mantra, with the possible exception of Hodgson. I really think he's someone to build around. But I'd still listen to offers there too.

I just don't see DR as operating like he's going to be gone after the season, nor do I expect him gone. So I'm guessing none of the "big three" move.

Edited by Double-J, 01 April 2013 - 08:45 AM.


#5 Sabres Fan In NS

Sabres Fan In NS

    I'd rather be in Sarajevo, or Istanbul (not Constantinople)

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,681 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

Posted 01 April 2013 - 08:46 AM

Voted:  None and Miller and Pominville (I would hang onto Vanek, at least until the off season, which can't come soon enough for me at this point).

#6 weave

weave

    Self-appointed Expert

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,431 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:in your head

Posted 01 April 2013 - 08:47 AM

I think the only player on that list that we could get fair return for at the deadline is maybe Pominville.  IMO there is no way a deadline deal gets us fair value for Vanek, and I doubt the same for Miller as well.

#7 Eleven

Eleven

    All Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,592 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Buffalo

Posted 01 April 2013 - 08:55 AM

I don't even think they'll see fair return for Pommer at the deadline.  These guys will be moved over the summer if they're moved at all.

#8 Taro T

Taro T

    It leads you here despite your destination under the MW tonight.

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,174 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 01 April 2013 - 08:59 AM

I don't expect any of them traded right now, but would be least surprised to see Pomms moved.

I wouldn't trade any of them for a "decent" return.  There's no point to it then as they'd just be making a move to make a move.  If any of the "big 3" move, it has to be an upgrade L T.

#9 sicknfla

sicknfla

    Fourth Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 860 posts

Posted 01 April 2013 - 09:20 AM

I would like to see Poms and Regehr moved to LA at the deadline for Bernier,  top prospect, and a number 1. The 1 will obviously be a late round pick so we could either use it as a way to move up in draft if we end up picking 8-14 or we could use it in package deal with Miller at draft time.

Again, this is what I would like to see but highly doubt it.

#10 26CornerBlitz

26CornerBlitz

    1970

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,097 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Jersey

Posted 01 April 2013 - 09:23 AM

View Postsicknfla, on 01 April 2013 - 09:20 AM, said:

I would like to see Poms and Regehr moved to LA at the deadline for Bernier,  top prospect, and a number 1. The 1 will obviously be a late round pick so we could either use it as a way to move up in draft if we end up picking 8-14 or we could use it in package deal with Miller at draft time.

Again, this is what I would like to see but highly doubt it.

FYI: Kings do not have a 2013 #1, Traded to the Jackets in the Jeff Carter deal last year.

#11 sicknfla

sicknfla

    Fourth Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 860 posts

Posted 01 April 2013 - 09:29 AM

Ok well that changes that idea. Maybe a third and next year's 1?

#12 TrueBluePhD

TrueBluePhD

    First Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,081 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cheektowaga, NY

Posted 01 April 2013 - 09:34 AM

I don't see any of them moved at the deadline--they're summer deals, if they happen at all.  I'd be willing to move Pommer or Miller for the right return, but after reading Taro's response, I probably should have been a bit more discriminating on the wording.  I'd be fine with moving Pommer for a good return, but would probably want more than that for Miller (unless, of course, he tells me he isn't interested in re-signing next year).  That said, if one of the deals involved getting a guy like Bernier, I'd be more willing to deal Miller....so really, I guess my answer is, it depends :P

View Postnfreeman, on 01 April 2013 - 08:30 AM, said:

2.  I don't think any of them will take a pay cut to stay here, and I like Pommer at $5.3MM more than I like Vanek at $7.1MM or Miller at $6.25MM.

6.  Trading Miller and Vanek would free up the most cap space, which will be needed for the rebuild.

Freeman, I found these bullet points in particular interesting.  Do you think Pominville remains anywhere near a $5.3 million salary when he gets a new deal, whether it's from us or another team?  I think you're looking at $6.5+ (and likely 7+) to keep him around, at which point he becomes much less of a bang for your buck player.  Still should be cheaper than Vanek, but the discrepancy may be smaller on their next contracts.

Edit: Just wanted to add that I don't trade Vanek unless he says he won't re-sign because I can't see a package we get in return which would make it worth it.  Maybe some team gives us "the Godfather" offer, but I don't see it.  He's our most talented player, and this team's problem is talent, so I'm not going to go trading away our top guy in a "quantity for quality" type of deal, which it almost certainly would be.  At some point you have to keep your best players, even if it means over paying them--and I'd much rather toss an extra million per year at Vanek than he's worth than invest it in another Gerbe, or Ellis, or McCormick, or any combination thereof.

Edited by TrueBluePhD, 01 April 2013 - 09:41 AM.


#13 nfreeman

nfreeman

    All I want is everything you got.

  • SS Mod Team
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,982 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Brooklyn

Posted 01 April 2013 - 10:02 AM

View PostTrueBluePhD, on 01 April 2013 - 09:34 AM, said:

I don't see any of them moved at the deadline--they're summer deals, if they happen at all.  I'd be willing to move Pommer or Miller for the right return, but after reading Taro's response, I probably should have been a bit more discriminating on the wording.  I'd be fine with moving Pommer for a good return, but would probably want more than that for Miller (unless, of course, he tells me he isn't interested in re-signing next year).  That said, if one of the deals involved getting a guy like Bernier, I'd be more willing to deal Miller....so really, I guess my answer is, it depends :P



Freeman, I found these bullet points in particular interesting.  Do you think Pominville remains anywhere near a $5.3 million salary when he gets a new deal, whether it's from us or another team?  I think you're looking at $6.5+ (and likely 7+) to keep him around, at which point he becomes much less of a bang for your buck player.  Still should be cheaper than Vanek, but the discrepancy may be smaller on their next contracts.

Edit: Just wanted to add that I don't trade Vanek unless he says he won't re-sign because I can't see a package we get in return which would make it worth it.  Maybe some team gives us "the Godfather" offer, but I don't see it.  He's our most talented player, and this team's problem is talent, so I'm not going to go trading away our top guy in a "quantity for quality" type of deal, which it almost certainly would be.  At some point you have to keep your best players, even if it means over paying them--and I'd much rather toss an extra million per year at Vanek than he's worth than invest it in another Gerbe, or Ellis, or McCormick, or any combination thereof.

I don't think Pommer will get $6.5MM+.  After a hot start, he's cooled down considerably and is on pace for a 52-point season.  He's also come to personify this team's failings.  With cap space at more of a premium under the new CBA, I don't see a GM investing 10% of his cap on Pommer.

As for whether they get moved now vs over the summer -- you are among many who see a deal happening over the summer as opposed to now.  I suppose this is possible, but I'd be curious as to why you think this.  I think from the Sabres' perspective a trade now is much better as the deadline deal frenzy will inflate the return.

Finally, regarding Vanek, your position is entirely logical.  I think the injuries have tipped the scale for me -- I just don't think at this point he can be relied upon to stay healthy.  (Of course, his current injury is likely to preclude a deadline deal this year, so there we are.)

I'm certainly not interested in him at that price or really at any price much north of where he is now.

#14 R_dudly

R_dudly

    The Kids are making me nervous..

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,617 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Pitts Berg

Posted 01 April 2013 - 10:11 AM

View PostSabres Fan In NS, on 01 April 2013 - 08:46 AM, said:

Voted:  None and Miller and Pominville (I would hang onto Vanek, at least until the off season, which can't come soon enough for me at this point).

Ditto what he said.

#15 Potato

Potato

    Take Off

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,784 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Nashville

Posted 01 April 2013 - 10:18 AM

View Postnfreeman, on 01 April 2013 - 10:02 AM, said:

I don't think Pommer will get $6.5MM+.  After a hot start, he's cooled down considerably and is on pace for a 52-point season.  He's also come to personify this team's failings.  With cap space at more of a premium under the new CBA, I don't see a GM investing 10% of his cap on Pommer.

As for whether they get moved now vs over the summer -- you are among many who see a deal happening over the summer as opposed to now.  I suppose this is possible, but I'd be curious as to why you think this.  I think from the Sabres' perspective a trade now is much better as the deadline deal frenzy will inflate the return.


I agree that making a "big-3" move now might actually capture a better return.  Traditionally, the summer has been the proper time for "blockbuster" trades... but, the market will be quite different this summer compared to years past due to the cap going down by $6 million next year.  So it isn't clear that waiting is necessarily a better strategy given the diminished buying power teams will have this summer.

#16 LabattBlue

LabattBlue

    First Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,614 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Western New York

Posted 01 April 2013 - 10:28 AM

I think all 3 are here when the deadline passes, but all bets are off this offseason.  I don't think they all get moved, but I think it is a possibility that one gets moved in the offseason, and one at the 2014 deadline if the Sabres are in the same place they are this year.

#17 weave

weave

    Self-appointed Expert

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,431 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:in your head

Posted 01 April 2013 - 10:31 AM

View Postnfreeman, on 01 April 2013 - 10:02 AM, said:

I don't think Pommer will get $6.5MM+.  After a hot start, he's cooled down considerably and is on pace for a 52-point season.  He's also come to personify this team's failings.  With cap space at more of a premium under the new CBA, I don't see a GM investing 10% of his cap on Pommer.

As for whether they get moved now vs over the summer -- you are among many who see a deal happening over the summer as opposed to now.  I suppose this is possible, but I'd be curious as to why you think this.  I think from the Sabres' perspective a trade now is much better as the deadline deal frenzy will inflate the return.

Finally, regarding Vanek, your position is entirely logical.  I think the injuries have tipped the scale for me -- I just don't think at this point he can be relied upon to stay healthy.  (Of course, his current injury is likely to preclude a deadline deal this year, so there we are.)

I'm certainly not interested in him at that price or really at any price much north of where he is now.

Deadline deals are rarely "hockey deals".  If I'm moving one of those three players i want a "hockey deal".  I expect that any offer for Vanek/Miller/Pommer at the deadline is going to be a move that results in one of them going to a team with Cup aspirations.  I cannot see a deal with a team with Cup aspirations that results in a good hockey trade for us.  It would most likely result in picks/prospects coming back and I think picks/prospects way undervalues those players (unless the prospect is a genuine blue chipper that is ready to go next season).

The caveat I'll add is that if one of those players goes to a Florida, NYI, or Calgary type team we may get equal value out of a pick package simply because those teams are bottom of the league teams and the picks would have a much higher likelihood of turning into difference-maker players.

#18 ThirtyEight

ThirtyEight

    Second Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,746 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oxford, UK

Posted 01 April 2013 - 10:33 AM

Out of interest, why do so many people want to move Pominville? He seems like the best one to stay - he is solid 2-way, consistent, durable, able to score and a leader - his numbers are very similar to Vanek's over their careers

It seems a lot of people are saying things like "It's time for Pominville to move on"

#19 d4rksabre

d4rksabre

    This pleases Nikita

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 19,277 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 01 April 2013 - 10:35 AM

View PostThirtyEight, on 01 April 2013 - 10:33 AM, said:

Out of interest, why do so many people want to move Pominville? He seems like the best one to stay - he is solid 2-way, consistent, durable, able to score and a leader - his numbers are very similar to Vanek's over their careers

It seems a lot of people are saying things like "It's time for Pominville to move on"

It's his soft attitude that people have a problem with. When the chips are down he folds like a bad poker hand. He is symbolic of the whole team demeanor. Their mental toughness is Jason.

#20 ThirtyEight

ThirtyEight

    Second Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,746 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oxford, UK

Posted 01 April 2013 - 10:42 AM

View Postd4rksabre, on 01 April 2013 - 10:35 AM, said:

It's his soft attitude that people have a problem with. When the chips are down he folds like a bad poker hand. He is symbolic of the whole team demeanor. Their mental toughness is Jason.

Ah another symbolism thing

Goose - Scared
Roy - Lazy
Pominville - Soft
Stafford - Inconsistent
Leino - How Pegula presence hasn't helped
Kaleta - Reckless
Myers - Regression
Ellis - Lack of talent
Gerbe - Diminutive stature
Miller - Overpaid

Is this all of them? Maybe greed, lust or pride?

Edited by ThirtyEight, 01 April 2013 - 10:43 AM.


#21 Sabres Fan In NS

Sabres Fan In NS

    I'd rather be in Sarajevo, or Istanbul (not Constantinople)

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,681 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

Posted 01 April 2013 - 10:56 AM

View PostThirtyEight, on 01 April 2013 - 10:33 AM, said:

Out of interest, why do so many people want to move Pominville? He seems like the best one to stay - he is solid 2-way, consistent, durable, able to score and a leader - his numbers are very similar to Vanek's over their careers

It seems a lot of people are saying things like "It's time for Pominville to move on"

:w00t:  ... :unsure:

He may wear the *C* on this rudderless ship we call the Sabres, but Pominville is no leader.

He does have good qualities and is a good player to have around on a cup contender.

Edited by Sabres Fan In NS, 01 April 2013 - 10:58 AM.


#22 26CornerBlitz

26CornerBlitz

    1970

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,097 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Jersey

Posted 01 April 2013 - 10:57 AM

View PostSabres Fan In NS, on 01 April 2013 - 10:56 AM, said:

:w00t:  ... :unsure:

He may wear the *C* on this rudderless ship we call the Sabres, but Pominville is no leader.

Ding! :thumbsup:

#23 TrueBluePhD

TrueBluePhD

    First Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,081 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cheektowaga, NY

Posted 01 April 2013 - 11:11 AM

View PostThirtyEight, on 01 April 2013 - 10:33 AM, said:

Out of interest, why do so many people want to move Pominville? He seems like the best one to stay - he is solid 2-way, consistent, durable, able to score and a leader - his numbers are very similar to Vanek's over their careers

It seems a lot of people are saying things like "It's time for Pominville to move on"

For me it comes down to economics.  While it's of course financially possible to keep all of them, given their respective ages and how much they will command, I'm not sure if it's financially sound to do so.  So the question becomes, who are the most valuable to the team?  I judge that answer to be Vanek and Miller.  As I said above, Vanek is our most talented player and I have little to no interest in a quantity for quality deal for him--I think he can be a top line winger on a championship team.  I think Pominville is a step below that, and while capable of playing on the top line, I think the ideal lineup has him on the second line (and yes, I'm aware few teams ever ice the ideal lineup).  

Because I think Pommer is a notch below that top-end talent level, I'd be much more accepting of a quantity for quality deal involving him than for Vanek.  With respect to Miller, I think the only teams which make sense are contenders who want to solidify/upgrade their goaltending, and I don't think it's likely we get more than a prospect/pick for him and frankly that type of deal for Miller doesn't interest me.  This is all predicated on the idea that you can re-sign whomever you choose--if any of them make it clear they want out or are going to test the market, you have to get what you can before that happens.  Also, a quality for quality deal would change my decision calculus on this, but when I look at the return on Nash last summer I just think a quantity for quality deal is far more likely to happen.

#24 nfreeman

nfreeman

    All I want is everything you got.

  • SS Mod Team
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,982 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Brooklyn

Posted 01 April 2013 - 12:58 PM

View Postweave, on 01 April 2013 - 10:31 AM, said:

Deadline deals are rarely "hockey deals".  If I'm moving one of those three players i want a "hockey deal".  I expect that any offer for Vanek/Miller/Pommer at the deadline is going to be a move that results in one of them going to a team with Cup aspirations.  I cannot see a deal with a team with Cup aspirations that results in a good hockey trade for us.  It would most likely result in picks/prospects coming back and I think picks/prospects way undervalues those players (unless the prospect is a genuine blue chipper that is ready to go next season).

The caveat I'll add is that if one of those players goes to a Florida, NYI, or Calgary type team we may get equal value out of a pick package simply because those teams are bottom of the league teams and the picks would have a much higher likelihood of turning into difference-maker players.

I generally agree.  I guess I think that (i) no one is going to give up a no-BS current #1 NHL center -- which is what the Sabres really need -- for Miller or Vanek regardless of when the trade is made; (ii) there is a good possibility that Miller or Vanek would yield a ready-to-play-in-2013, highly-touted center prospect plus high draft picks and/or other prospects; (iii) the time to strike for that kind of return is now, when the contenders are feeling the heat; and (iv) "wait until summer to make a hockey trade" just sounds too much like DR fiddling while Rome burns.

#25 qwksndmonster

qwksndmonster

    The 'd' is silent

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,675 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Horseheads

Posted 01 April 2013 - 01:05 PM

View Postnfreeman, on 01 April 2013 - 12:58 PM, said:

I generally agree.  I guess I think that (i) no one is going to give up a no-BS current #1 NHL center -- which is what the Sabres really need -- for Miller or Vanek regardless of when the trade is made; (ii) there is a good possibility that Miller or Vanek would yield a ready-to-play-in-2013, highly-touted center prospect plus high draft picks and/or other prospects; (iii) the time to strike for that kind of return is now, when the contenders are feeling the heat; and (iv) "wait until summer to make a hockey trade" just sounds too much like DR fiddling while Rome burns.
I think it's just burnt now.

#26 Skibum

Skibum

    Prospect

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 205 posts

Posted 01 April 2013 - 01:40 PM

I would trade Vanek or Miller before Pommer.

Both have higher trade value. A Vanek trade would be hard to pull the trigger on because he's our only world-class talent at forward, but it seems like every year he wears down throughout the season until he's a non-factor.

Miller could net a big return from the right buyer, and there are a lot of goalies who can provide a marginal drop-off for a significant savings.

Pommer is just so consistent and durable year in and year out. He's like the government bonds of hockey. In diversifying your portfolio, you have to have a little Pominville to hedge your bets.

Edited by Skibum, 01 April 2013 - 01:42 PM.


#27 TrueBluePhD

TrueBluePhD

    First Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,081 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cheektowaga, NY

Posted 01 April 2013 - 01:45 PM

View Postnfreeman, on 01 April 2013 - 12:58 PM, said:

I generally agree.  I guess I think that (i) no one is going to give up a no-BS current #1 NHL center -- which is what the Sabres really need -- for Miller or Vanek regardless of when the trade is made; (ii) there is a good possibility that Miller or Vanek would yield a ready-to-play-in-2013, highly-touted center prospect plus high draft picks and/or other prospects; (iii) the time to strike for that kind of return is now, when the contenders are feeling the heat; and (iv) "wait until summer to make a hockey trade" just sounds too much like DR fiddling while Rome burns.

Rome is definitely burning, and I sincerely hope Regier keeps the tools to finish the job ;) :P

#28 Robviously

Robviously

    What You Don't See

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,257 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:North Texas

Posted 01 April 2013 - 02:48 PM

I'm expecting us to trade none of these guys for the simple reason that it's really hard to imagine an exciting trade involving the Buffalo Sabres.  Kassian for Hodgson was pretty good last year and the Drury trade was 10 years ago.  And what was the biggest trade before that?  We're not a franchise that makes waves.

I'd be happy to trade Miller and Pominville.  I'm not super psyched about re-signing Miller with a new contract that starts when he's 34 and Pominville's collapse after Ruff was fired isn't super encouraging.

I'm also not sure why the prices for any of these guys should be higher in the summer when teams have way more options.  The whole point of deadline deals is that teams are desperate to win NOW.  If you're really interested in winning the Cup in the next few months, your prospects and draft picks seems a lot less interesting this week.  Plus there shouldn't be too many teams selling this week.

#29 nfreeman

nfreeman

    All I want is everything you got.

  • SS Mod Team
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,982 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Brooklyn

Posted 01 April 2013 - 02:54 PM

View PostRobviously, on 01 April 2013 - 02:48 PM, said:

I'm also not sure why the prices for any of these guys should be higher in the summer when teams have way more options.  The whole point of deadline deals is that teams are desperate to win NOW.  If you're really interested in winning the Cup in the next few months, your prospects and draft picks seems a lot less interesting this week.  Plus there shouldn't be too many teams selling this week.

This is it, IMHO.  The counter-point -- ie picks and prospects aren't a good enough return -- is valid too, but as I mentioned above I don't think the Sabres will get a compelling enough roster player in return anyway, regardless of when the trade is made.

#30 Robviously

Robviously

    What You Don't See

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,257 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:North Texas

Posted 01 April 2013 - 03:00 PM

View Postnfreeman, on 01 April 2013 - 02:54 PM, said:

This is it, IMHO.  The counter-point -- ie picks and prospects aren't a good enough return -- is valid too, but as I mentioned above I don't think the Sabres will get a compelling enough roster player in return anyway, regardless of when the trade is made.
Picks and prospects are my preferred return.  A good rule of thumb for trades is that whichever team lands the single best player won the trade.  So I'm not getting better by trading one of Vanek/Poms/Miller for 2-3 NHL players who aren't as good.  At least with prospects and picks, you have a chance to land the best player in the deal -- even if he may not be the best player for a few years.

#31 TrueBluePhD

TrueBluePhD

    First Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,081 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cheektowaga, NY

Posted 01 April 2013 - 03:33 PM

View PostRobviously, on 01 April 2013 - 03:00 PM, said:

Picks and prospects are my preferred return.  A good rule of thumb for trades is that whichever team lands the single best player won the trade.  So I'm not getting better by trading one of Vanek/Poms/Miller for 2-3 NHL players who aren't as good.  At least with prospects and picks, you have a chance to land the best player in the deal -- even if he may not be the best player for a few years.

Columbus got better after trading Nash, who was clearly a better individual player than Anisimov or Dubinsky (one example, I know....but in my defense, trades like that don't happen on a regular basis either :P ).  And that chance of getting the best player when the best player is Vanek, with mid-teens to twenties picks, is like 1% or less.

#32 TrueBluePhD

TrueBluePhD

    First Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,081 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cheektowaga, NY

Posted 01 April 2013 - 03:51 PM

View Postnfreeman, on 01 April 2013 - 02:54 PM, said:

This is it, IMHO.  The counter-point -- ie picks and prospects aren't a good enough return -- is valid too, but as I mentioned above I don't think the Sabres will get a compelling enough roster player in return anyway, regardless of when the trade is made.

I don't think we could get an all-star in return or anything, but I think we could get a guy to fill a gaping hole on our roster outside of top-line talent.  For instance, in the offseason a trade involving a team's checking line center is going to be more likely than a playoff team trading that guy right before they try to make a run.  The overall value of the trade may not be greater, but it's possible the components would be more appealing to me than only picks/prospects.  Of course, if the plan is for a ground-up rebuild then the picks/prospects route makes more sense.  The key is the plan...we can't just trade Pominville without at least having a framework in place of what the follow-up moves are going to be.

#33 Taro T

Taro T

    It leads you here despite your destination under the MW tonight.

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,174 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 01 April 2013 - 05:02 PM

View PostRobviously, on 01 April 2013 - 03:00 PM, said:


Picks and prospects are my preferred return.  A good rule of thumb for trades is that whichever team lands the single best player won the trade.  So I'm not getting better by trading one of Vanek/Poms/Miller for 2-3 NHL players who aren't as good.  At least with prospects and picks, you have a chance to land the best player in the deal -- even if he may not be the best player for a few years.
So have 1 of them in a package for a better player than they currently have.

#34 Robviously

Robviously

    What You Don't See

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,257 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:North Texas

Posted 01 April 2013 - 05:21 PM

View PostTaro T, on 01 April 2013 - 05:02 PM, said:


So have 1 of them in a package for a better player than they currently have.
Who do you have in mind and why would a team trade such a player?

#35 Taro T

Taro T

    It leads you here despite your destination under the MW tonight.

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,174 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 01 April 2013 - 05:48 PM

View PostRobviously, on 01 April 2013 - 05:21 PM, said:


Who do you have in mind and why would a team trade such a player?
Both Isles & Eulers have a glut of young talent. Either could use a veteran topline guy to bring some experience to help the kids.  Including the Sabres top pick with say Pomms could make something happen.

#36 rickshaw

rickshaw

    Third Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,954 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Kelowna BC Canada

Posted 01 April 2013 - 06:14 PM

If the Sabres can get Bernier out of LA then I say do it.
The kid can play and he can't in LA. That would allow a Miller trade somewhere else and free up some cash too.
Not sure how it can be done, but getting a goalie like Bernier would be a very sweet move by Buffalo.

I just hope they drop the interim coach immediately after the season ends and get someone behind the bench who will right this ship.

#37 TrueBluePhD

TrueBluePhD

    First Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,081 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cheektowaga, NY

Posted 01 April 2013 - 06:49 PM

View PostTaro T, on 01 April 2013 - 05:48 PM, said:

Both Isles & Eulers have a glut of young talent. Either could use a veteran topline guy to bring some experience to help the kids.  Including the Sabres top pick with say Pomms could make something happen.

I know Niederreiter wanted to be traded when the Isles sent him down to the A.  That's the type of high-end prospect I could get excited for if Pominville is dealt, but if the key component in the deal is some team's equivalent of Pysyk, then :angry:

Of course this is probably a moot point, since there's a good chance the Isles would be on his no-trade list.

View Postrickshaw, on 01 April 2013 - 06:14 PM, said:

If the Sabres can get Bernier out of LA then I say do it.
The kid can play and he can't in LA. That would allow a Miller trade somewhere else and free up some cash too.
Not sure how it can be done, but getting a goalie like Bernier would be a very sweet move by Buffalo.

I just hope they drop the interim coach immediately after the season ends and get someone behind the bench who will right this ship.

I like the idea of Bernier, but I do have concerns about his size.  He's listed at 5'11, which isn't tiny, but definitely not ideal....and it gets worse if they ever actually increase the size of the nets.

#38 Taro T

Taro T

    It leads you here despite your destination under the MW tonight.

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,174 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 01 April 2013 - 08:43 PM

View PostTrueBluePhD, on 01 April 2013 - 06:49 PM, said:



I know Niederreiter wanted to be traded when the Isles sent him down to the A.  That's the type of high-end prospect I could get excited for if Pominville is dealt , but if the key component in the deal is some team's equivalent of Pysyk, then :angry:

Of course this is probably a moot point, since there's a good chance the Isles would be on his no-trade list.



I like the idea of Bernier, but I do have concerns about his size.  He's listed at 5'11, which isn't tiny, but definitely not ideal....and it gets worse if they ever actually increase the size of the nets.
Could be Buffalo's own Neuwendyk for Iginla.

#39 Andrew Amerk

Andrew Amerk

    Heart Means Everything.

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,459 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rochester, NY

Posted 01 April 2013 - 08:49 PM

View PostThirtyEight, on 01 April 2013 - 10:33 AM, said:

Out of interest, why do so many people want to move Pominville? He seems like the best one to stay - he is solid 2-way, consistent, durable, able to score and a leader - his numbers are very similar to Vanek's over their careers

It seems a lot of people are saying things like "It's time for Pominville to move on"

Cuz Roston doesn't like toughness.

#40 WildCard

WildCard

    April 6th, 2015.

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,748 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:lost in a supermarket

Posted 01 April 2013 - 10:47 PM



It's up for debate which one is Jack, but this is all i've been thinking about with the deadline coming up and our "core" three.

I can just picture DR, big-ol' sitcom smile on his face like Don Knots, just sitting at his desk watching his door, waiting for someone to knock. :lol:

Edited by WildCard, 01 April 2013 - 10:49 PM.