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Swiss League player paralyzed


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Poll: Swiss League player paralyzed

Put himself in a bad position?

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Opposing player should have held up

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#1 Spndnchz

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 11:48 AM



First let me say, just terrible.

Quote


On the play in question during the first overtime period, Keller and Langenthal forward Stefan Schnyder are seen racing for the puck into the corner at which point Keller turns slightly to his left  in an attempt to slow down his momentum and Schnyder pushes him, driving him head first into the end boards. Keller remained motionless on the ice, reportedly telling officials he could not feel his legs before a neck brace was applied and he was loaded onto a stretcher as fans and players looked on with concern clearly on their faces.

http://www.theglobea...article9447023/

My question is how much is the player at fault.  He seems to hold up at least 5-6 feet away from the boards with the opposing player right on top of him putting himself in a terrible position.  The opposing player is supposed to stop on a dime and let the player get the puck?

These type of calls are so tough at full speed.

#2 Ghost of Dwight Drane

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 11:56 AM

Horrible for the fella...

That was just a hockey play going into the corner. The guy actually turned into and initiated contact of his own. He just got sent flying.

#3 ThirtyEight

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 11:56 AM

That is really sad to hear. What are the size/weights of these guys?

This is just a play gone wrong all round imo. The pushed one put himself in a very bad position - look at the skate angle, there is no way he stays up when he is pushed. So either he gets shoved into the boards or he knocks the other player over. Having said that, he got shoved very hard

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Edited by ThirtyEight, 07 March 2013 - 12:02 PM.


#4 Heimdall

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 11:59 AM

The way i see it, they both are looking at each other more then they are going after the puck.  

They guy in green actually stops a little and looks for contact with the guy in yellow who is at full speed.

#5 LTS

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 12:00 PM

Disturbing.. i can't even imagine.

The paralyzed player had the right position with his skates out but clearly the player in yellow had enough force to get him over the edge of the skate.  Airborne and done.  Ugh.. that's just awful.

#6 Eleven

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 12:09 PM

View PostSpndnchz, on 07 March 2013 - 11:48 AM, said:



First let me say, just terrible.



http://www.theglobea...article9447023/

My question is how much is the player at fault.  He seems to hold up at least 5-6 feet away from the boards with the opposing player right on top of him putting himself in a terrible position.  The opposing player is supposed to stop on a dime and let the player get the puck?

These type of calls are so tough at full speed.

The opposing player does not have to stop on a dime.  All he has to do is refrain from the shoving portion of that hit.  If they simply had collided, fine; there was no need for the player to come through with his right arm like that.

#7 Sabres Fan In NS

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 12:30 PM

I watched the video several times.

I voted no (Q1) and yes (Q2).

Yellow guy would be banned for life, if it were up to me.

#8 d4rksabre

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 12:31 PM

View PostEleven, on 07 March 2013 - 12:09 PM, said:



The opposing player does not have to stop on a dime.  All he has to do is refrain from the shoving portion of that hit.  If they simply had collided, fine; there was no need for the player to come through with his right arm like that.

Agreed. He put everything he had into the pushing motion. The smart play would have been to go to the boards with him and limit the contact. But that push was done with full effort. Why do that?

#9 Ghost of Dwight Drane

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 12:42 PM

View Postd4rksabre, on 07 March 2013 - 12:31 PM, said:

Agreed. He put everything he had into the pushing motion. The smart play would have been to go to the boards with him and limit the contact. But that push was done with full effort. Why do that?

??

I think it's been so long since this city has seen actual, non-pussified hockey being played, that we forget what naturally happens.

The guy turned into him looking for contact....he got contact....he flew and a fluke accident happened.

Let's post videos of the same play that has happened 300,000 times over the past decade without a poor guy getting the shaft. If we catered to accidents, a hooking penalty would be a game misconduct and Uwe Krupp would have been banned from the league for what happened to Malarchuk.

#10 qwksndmonster

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 12:46 PM

View PostSabres Fan In NS, on 07 March 2013 - 12:30 PM, said:

I watched the video several times.

I voted no (Q1) and yes (Q2).

Yellow guy would be banned for life, if it were up to me.
You're quite harsh on players that injure other players.  You're like my mom.  The only difference is my mom thought Richards was diving :P

#11 26CornerBlitz

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 12:53 PM

Really tragic incident that was completely avoidable. Very sad to see it.

#12 shrader

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 01:15 PM

View PostGhost of Dwight Drane, on 07 March 2013 - 12:42 PM, said:

??

I think it's been so long since this city has seen actual, non-pussified hockey being played, that we forget what naturally happens.

The guy turned into him looking for contact....he got contact....he flew and a fluke accident happened.

Let's post videos of the same play that has happened 300,000 times over the past decade without a poor guy getting the shaft. If we catered to accidents, a hooking penalty would be a game misconduct and Uwe Krupp would have been banned from the league for what happened to Malarchuk.

I'm with you.  He initiated contact.  The whole thing is a horrible case of bad luck and neither player is at fault.  They played it right and then everything took a turn for the worst.

#13 skaught

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 01:40 PM

View Postshrader, on 07 March 2013 - 01:15 PM, said:

I'm with you.  He initiated contact.  The whole thing is a horrible case of bad luck and neither player is at fault.  They played it right and then everything took a turn for the worst.

Yeah, I don't see anything wrong with it, just very very unfortunate.

If someone turned and went after me like that, my instinctual reaction is to shove them.

I'd say they're both at fault for playing a dangerous sport.

#14 Claude_Verret

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 01:46 PM

I agree that it was an unfortunate outcome to a hockey play and I feel horrible for the injured player.  I know a former Cornell player who was paralyzed just playing a pick up game.  It can be a dangerous sport, sometimes bad freak stuff just happens.

#15 Icehole

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 01:52 PM

View PostSpndnchz, on 07 March 2013 - 11:48 AM, said:



First let me say, just terrible.



http://www.theglobea...article9447023/

My question is how much is the player at fault.  He seems to hold up at least 5-6 feet away from the boards with the opposing player right on top of him putting himself in a terrible position.  The opposing player is supposed to stop on a dime and let the player get the puck?

These type of calls are so tough at full speed.

It was worse than that even.  Not only did he hold up, he knew the contact was coming initiated it by stopping and then launching himself into the oncoming guys chest.  Done it many times myself, but the guy took a bad angle (not his fault), came up too fast and lost his leverage as the other guy anticipated the contact and also reacted (normal hockey reaction).  Freak accident, no one's fault.

Edited by North Buffalo, 07 March 2013 - 01:53 PM.


#16 716

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 01:56 PM

View PostSabres Fan In NS, on 07 March 2013 - 12:30 PM, said:


Yellow guy would be banned for life, if it were up to me.

Hell yeah! He pushed him into the boards headfirst.

#17 Potato

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 02:10 PM

"Yes" and "yes."  The two questions are not mutually exclusive.  Obviously the guy didn't need to blast him, and the checker is probably far more at fault than the checkee.  But I personally don't believe my well-being is 100% tied to the benevolence of others.  Don't put yourself in the position for a potentially bad outcome.

Very unfortunate play.

#18 Ghost of Dwight Drane

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 02:21 PM

Always interesting to see reactions.....a few flip-flops from what I would have hypothisized.

Nobody ever wants to see a guy get really hurt. Just look at that fight last night. Frazer wanted to crawl into a hole and die after knocking that kid out. You want to be the alpha.....but keep the family intact and strong.

A girl I know went to her first game at BU and saw Travis Roy go down 10 seconds into it. Talk about looking like a barbaric sport.....

#19 LGR4GM

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 02:32 PM

Rubbins Racing
Hittings Hockey

#20 IKnowPhysics

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 02:32 PM

The first player turns his skates and initiates contact with the second player, but he has to do this to stop from running into the corner.  He's not attempting an interference play, he's trying to stop out of necessity.  He drops his shoulders in expectation of incidental contact.  He does not come close to having posession of the puck, and therefore, is not a legal target for non-incidental contact.  This is a hockey play.

The second player sees this play all the way and has ultimate control over the outcome.  The first player initiates contact out of necessity, and then the second player not only does not attempt to slow his momentum, he follows through with a right arm shove that results in directing the first players torso in an ice-parallel direction.  Right at 0:16, you can see the first player braced for incidental contact, that would likely results in a play that has a low probability for injury.  Then the shove, moreso that than the second player's momentum, throws the first player off balance and into an airborne position that is awkward, defenseless, and in the critical danger zone (3'-6' from the boards).  This is not a hockey play.

If the second player doesn't shove, this play is an awkward fall into the boards at most, not a catastrophic body missile sent head first into the boards.  Minimum 10 game suspension for the second player and let the guilt do the rest.

#21 d4rksabre

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 02:44 PM

Again, this is a result of players not going to the boards like they used to. It's a practice that has crept up thanks to guys expecting to get absolutely blasted from the blindside and wanting to be prepared for it. Unfortunately it's evolved into this weird approach that I see frequently in college hockey where guys are light and fast, where the player pursuing the puck initiatiates contact with his expected checker in a very offensive, physical manner.

It used to be that you could go to the boards and the guy chasing you would try to get his stick around you or give you a bear hug sort of thing, using his body to make contact, not his arms. But the game has evolved thanks to quirks in how holding and hitting from behind is called. Too much borderline dangerous stuff gets let go forcing players to have to initiate plays like this out of necessity.

#22 shrader

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 02:48 PM

View PostGhost of Dwight Drane, on 07 March 2013 - 02:21 PM, said:

Always interesting to see reactions.....a few flip-flops from what I would have hypothisized.

Nobody ever wants to see a guy get really hurt. Just look at that fight last night. Frazer wanted to crawl into a hole and die after knocking that kid out. You want to be the alpha.....but keep the family intact and strong.

A girl I know went to her first game at BU and saw Travis Roy go down 10 seconds into it. Talk about looking like a barbaric sport.....

You want to talk about barbaric, Roy once cut me off in his wheel chair in the concourses of Worcester's AHL arena.

I can't count the number of times I've heard his story around here though.  Just picture being in the stand for the rest of that game and having no clue how he was doing.  I think I may very well have left that game.

#23 X. Benedict

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 02:51 PM

View Postshrader, on 07 March 2013 - 02:48 PM, said:

You want to talk about barbaric, Roy once cut me off in his wheel chair in the concourses of Worcester's AHL arena.

That bastard!

#24 LGR4GM

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 03:18 PM

very well shrader,

Look it is a terrible accident that occurred and I feel horrible for both guys involved.  That being stated unfortunately it is a hockey play.  People will get hurt and at some point there just isn't anything you can do to avoid it.  Green puts himself in a bad position when he stops instead of going into the boards and turns for the hit.  If he goes for that puck at an angle with his shoulder facing the attacking player and his opposing shoulder tight to the boards he may get a shoulder injury but he wont be paralyzed.  At the same time yellow should have held up a little instead of going bone crusher on his ass.  It is a series of events that results in a injury but no one guy or factor is at fault.

#25 thesportsbuff

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 06:17 PM

This is just horrible to see.  I read about it last night before a video was available. I was holding out hope that the diagnosis could change if swelling went down overnight or something, but that obviously was not the case. There are no positives to take from an accident like this but if there is any silver lining, at least there was no head/brain injury. Mr. Keller's world has been flipped upside down and surely there are some tough times ahead for himself and his family, but I guess in times like these you just have to be thankful that he's alive and will (presumably) be able to communicate and function with his loved ones. It's hard to say "it could've been worse" when a guy leaves the rink paralyzed on a stretcher, but I really am glad he didn't lose his life to a hockey game...

I know this wasn't the NHL, but still begs the question -- is it time for the Brian Burke "bear hug" rule?

#26 Neo

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 08:26 PM

No and no.   Terrible result.   I voted no and no because neither intended the result and both did what anyone may have done in the 1/64th of a second they had to think.  There is no training, for even the best intentioned person, that stops him from shoving when someone slows and leans back into him.   Had the trailing player backed off when the first slowed, allowing the first to stop and gain puck possession, we'd say he was unaggressive and call for a game in the press box to watch and think.  What would the proper play be for the trailer and could anyone execute the hypothetical best F=m*a or p=m*v in an instant?   At what frame does the proper play become apparent to the trailer?  Someone got hurt.  Must be someone's fault.   I don't buy it.

My best wishes and God speed to both victims of circumstance.

#27 Eleven

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 08:29 PM

View PostNeo, on 07 March 2013 - 08:26 PM, said:

No and no.   Terrible result.   I voted no and no because neither intended the result and both did what anyone may have done in the 1/64th of a second they had to think.  There is no training, for even the best intentioned person, that stops him from shoving when someone slows and leans back into him.   Had the trailing player backed off when the first slowed, allowing the first to stop and gain puck possession, we'd say he was unaggressive and call for a game in the press box to watch and think.  What would the proper play be for the trailer and could anyone execute the hypothetical best F=m*a or p=m*v in an instant?   At what frame does the proper play become apparent to the trailer?  Someone got hurt.  Must be someone's fault.   I don't buy it.

My best wishes and God speed to both victims of circumstance.

I completely disagree, but I definitely appreciate your reasonableness.

#28 cdexchange

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 06:04 PM

I literally cannot even bring myself to watch the video, knowing that a guy is getting paralyzed in it.  I'm curious to see what happened, but I just can't make the conscious choice to hit play because I know I will regret it.  :(

#29 wonderbread

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 08:40 PM

The video is sickening. I agree with Neo. I'll add that I believe players should have a responsibility to avoid that type of play.

Edited by wonderbread, 08 March 2013 - 08:42 PM.


#30 weave

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 01:23 AM

CDX, you are not alone.  I won't watch the vid knowing the outcome.

#31 Kristian

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 01:45 AM

View Postcdexchange, on 08 March 2013 - 06:04 PM, said:

I literally cannot even bring myself to watch the video, knowing that a guy is getting paralyzed in it.  I'm curious to see what happened, but I just can't make the conscious choice to hit play because I know I will regret it.  :(

Yeah, didn't watch either, so I can't really comment.

#32 Meathead

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 05:03 PM

View PostIKnowPhysics, on 07 March 2013 - 02:32 PM, said:

The first player turns his skates and initiates contact with the second player, but he has to do this to stop from running into the corner.  He's not attempting an interference play, he's trying to stop out of necessity.  He drops his shoulders in expectation of incidental contact.  He does not come close to having posession of the puck, and therefore, is not a legal target for non-incidental contact.  This is a hockey play.

The second player sees this play all the way and has ultimate control over the outcome.  The first player initiates contact out of necessity, and then the second player not only does not attempt to slow his momentum, he follows through with a right arm shove that results in directing the first players torso in an ice-parallel direction.  Right at 0:16, you can see the first player braced for incidental contact, that would likely results in a play that has a low probability for injury.  Then the shove, moreso that than the second player's momentum, throws the first player off balance and into an airborne position that is awkward, defenseless, and in the critical danger zone (3'-6' from the boards).  This is not a hockey play.

If the second player doesn't shove, this play is an awkward fall into the boards at most, not a catastrophic body missile sent head first into the boards.  Minimum 10 game suspension for the second player and let the guilt do the rest.

exactly correct

and this is the way you see it unless youre a macho neanderthal

#33 SwampD

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 09:15 PM

View PostIKnowPhysics, on 07 March 2013 - 02:32 PM, said:

The first player turns his skates and initiates contact with the second player, but he has to do this to stop from running into the corner.  He's not attempting an interference play, he's trying to stop out of necessity.  He drops his shoulders in expectation of incidental contact.  He does not come close to having posession of the puck, and therefore, is not a legal target for non-incidental contact.  This is a hockey play.

The second player sees this play all the way and has ultimate control over the outcome.  The first player initiates contact out of necessity, and then the second player not only does not attempt to slow his momentum, he follows through with a right arm shove that results in directing the first players torso in an ice-parallel direction.  Right at 0:16, you can see the first player braced for incidental contact, that would likely results in a play that has a low probability for injury.  Then the shove, moreso that than the second player's momentum, throws the first player off balance and into an airborne position that is awkward, defenseless, and in the critical danger zone (3'-6' from the boards).  This is not a hockey play.

If the second player doesn't shove, this play is an awkward fall into the boards at most, not a catastrophic body missile sent head first into the boards.  Minimum 10 game suspension for the second player and let the guilt do the rest.
There is very little I agree with here. You said several times that the first player initiated contact out of necessity. I'm pretty sure that he initiated contact for one reason only, to initiate contact. If the second player eases up there he would end up on his ass. This play is very similar to when Recchi hit Kennedy in the playoffs (one in which even the TV mutts were saying was borderline interference on Recchi). The only difference was Timmy lost that one, and everyone on here said "Well, at least he learned a lesson and wont lose one of those battles again."

This was a routine play. Someone got hurt. If he didn't get hurt, it would join the other 10,000 hits just like this that have occurred around the world this year that none of us heard of.