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Time to break them up?


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#1 Neuvirths Glove

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 11:25 PM

Vanek had a great start and pulled Pommers and Hodgson along for the ride.  Then they all got cold.  Vanek misses a game and the other two find the magic again.

So when Vanek returns, what do you do with the lines?  Slip him back into the top line, or try to create two scoring lines by putting Vanek on the line centered by Ennis?

Foligno - Hodgson - Pominville
Vanek - Ennis - Stafford

Give Staff his last shot to be a top 6 scoring guy.  If that line doesn't produce, bring Kaleta up and see what he can do (you might be surprised) and put Staff back on the checking line.  Or maybe by then Leino's ready to go and you give him a shot.

Edited by Doohickie, 02 March 2013 - 11:28 PM.


#2 Spndnchz

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 11:29 PM

Hell no.

#3 SwampD

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 11:38 PM

I know what I hate,… and I don't hate this idea.

#4 Neuvirths Glove

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 11:39 PM

View PostSpndnchz, on 02 March 2013 - 11:29 PM, said:

Hell no.

Coward.

Edited by Doohickie, 02 March 2013 - 11:39 PM.


#5 dudacek

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 12:03 AM

Gotta say I had similar thoughts.
Today should have quieted some of those Hodgson-is-being-carried-by-Vanek posts.

#6 qwksndmonster

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 12:07 AM

Meh.

#7 Neuvirths Glove

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 01:00 AM

View Postqwksndmonster, on 03 March 2013 - 12:07 AM, said:

Meh.

I appreciate your insightful and well thought-out post.

#8 sizzlemeister

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 02:42 AM

I'm all for mixing up the lines in any way that works for the team as a whole. Rolston has done okay so far, and I like that he's boldly experimenting with the call-ups, so I say let him put Vanek where ever he thinks Vanek should go.

Edited by sizzlemeister, 03 March 2013 - 02:42 AM.


#9 Heimdall

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 02:46 AM

i'd put vanek next to grigorenko :P

#10 wjag

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 07:59 AM

The thought I had yesterday was a bit more diabolical. If you were wondering what the team would look like and how they would play without Vanek, it is now known. It wasn't pretty. But, and here's the but. If Vanek was moved for other assets (players and picks), we know what the team would look like. He remains the most valuable asset short of Miller to trade. Haven't brought myself to the point I would trade him, but I'm warming up to the idea. Be good for the team and good for Vanek to send him somwhere where he might have a chance to appear in cup sooner than later.

#11 kishoph

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 08:09 AM

View PostDoohickie, on 02 March 2013 - 11:25 PM, said:

Vanek had a great start and pulled Pommers and Hodgson along for the ride.  Then they all got cold.  Vanek misses a game and the other two find the magic again.

So when Vanek returns, what do you do with the lines?  Slip him back into the top line, or try to create two scoring lines by putting Vanek on the line centered by Ennis?

Foligno - Hodgson - Pominville
Vanek - Ennis - Stafford

Give Staff his last shot to be a top 6 scoring guy.  If that line doesn't produce, bring Kaleta up and see what he can do (you might be surprised) and put Staff back on the checking line.  Or maybe by then Leino's ready to go and you give him a shot.

I could see it working, putting Foligno with Pommers and Hodgson would give them some grit in the corners, as long as Foligno played his game and doesn't try to be Thomas Vanek, as for Vanek with Ennis and Stafford, Vanek and Stafford know each other pretty well I believe and when Vanek and Ennis are on the ice together, they usually get good scoring chances. The team needs something to jump start the scoring and this wouldn't be bad to try (IMO). If it doesn't work, then you switch them back, or try another combination.

#12 ThirtyEight

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 09:04 AM

Put Gretzky on Ennis' line for all it matters. Until Ennis realises passing is allowed in the game no-one on his line will flourish

#13 HopefulFuture

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 09:19 AM

View Postwjag, on 03 March 2013 - 07:59 AM, said:

The thought I had yesterday was a bit more diabolical. If you were wondering what the team would look like and how they would play without Vanek, it is now known. It wasn't pretty. But, and here's the but. If Vanek was moved for other assets (players and picks), we know what the team would look like. He remains the most valuable asset short of Miller to trade. Haven't brought myself to the point I would trade him, but I'm warming up to the idea. Be good for the team and good for Vanek to send him somwhere where he might have a chance to appear in cup sooner than later.

1 game does not make nearly enough analytical data to support the bolded, it's just one game.
I cannot support trading the leading scorer on this team, that's not sound strategy.

#14 wjag

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 09:23 AM

View PostHopefulFuture, on 03 March 2013 - 09:19 AM, said:



1 game does not make nearly enough analytical data to support the bolded, it's just one game.
I cannot support trading the leading scorer on this team, that's not sound strategy.

Agreed.  I thought I caveated it well enough.  Apparently not enough.  Just wondering.  I'd like to see a few more games to see.  It's going to take a blockbuster trade to get better.  There are only three maybe four players that would qualify as a blockbuster trade and he is one of them.

#15 IKnowPhysics

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 10:44 AM

View PostThirtyEight, on 03 March 2013 - 09:04 AM, said:

Until Ennis realises passing is allowed in the game no-one on his line will flourish

This is what we're doing now?

Ennis is third on the team in assists with nine.  Five of those are on the PP, when he's not playing with his linemates.  Stafford and Foligno have combined for two goals.  So you tell me- is Ennis not passing or is he playing with guys that don't finish?

#16 X. Benedict

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 10:51 AM

View PostIKnowPhysics, on 03 March 2013 - 10:44 AM, said:

This is what we're doing now?

Ennis is third on the team in assists with nine.  Five of those are on the PP, when he's not playing with his linemates.  Stafford and Foligno have combined for two goals.  So you tell me- is Ennis not passing or is he playing with guys that don't finish?

Ennis can pass. And Ennis is a beautiful player to watch with open ice.

My worry is that at center playing 5x5, Ennis has trouble carrying the puck into the scoring areas. Defenses keep Ennis to the outside and that leaves Foligno and Stafford supporting the puck against the walls - the three as a line aren't getting to the scoring areas because teams are taking away the middle.

#17 ThirtyEight

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 11:42 AM

View PostIKnowPhysics, on 03 March 2013 - 10:44 AM, said:

This is what we're doing now?

Ennis is third on the team in assists with nine.  Five of those are on the PP, when he's not playing with his linemates.  Stafford and Foligno have combined for two goals.  So you tell me- is Ennis not passing or is he playing with guys that don't finish?

True, but 2/3 of the assists are secondary. I am not saying he is a bad player, I just really hate him as a centre. Watch him with the puck tonight, he never passes to the defence and we just keeps hold of the puck for far too long. He is a very talented player who is best on the rush but I don't think he makes his linemates better. Most of his assists this season have either been irrelevant to the play or pretty pedestrian passes to the defence who then take a shot which is deflected or the rebound is put in

Florida: Irrelevant to the goal
Pittsburgh: Ehrhoff passes to him, he passes to Ehrhoff, Ehrhoff shoots the puck off Vanek's stick
Boston: First is a lovely pass to Stafford, Second he is irrelevant
Montreal: First he touches the puck and Vanek picks it up makes a move to the backhand and scores (I don't think Ennis did anything particularly important on the play); second is a scramble in the goal crease, again he didn't do anything of particular note
Boston: Ehrhoff passes to him, he passes to Ehrhoff, Ehrhoff shoots the puck off Vanek's stick
Washington: Passes to Sekera, he shoots, Foligno puts in the rebound - but in fairness I think Ennis is more involved in this play compared to his other plays
Philly: Passes to Myers who shoots and scores

Tally:
Irrelevant: II
Passes to D-man who shoots: IIII
Other: III

He has three assists where he was more actively involved in the play (and that is being very very generous). Look at the two assists Coho had yesterday and Ennis has at best one like that (Stafford).

Now I know you could do this with a lot of players, but I just don't think he is the playmaker his assists suggest he is

#18 716

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 11:44 AM

Stafford? I don't include Stafford on anything. I see him as a reclamation project. Stafford somehow always gets lost. For weeks on end, sometimes months. Then he'll grace us with a period of 3-4 weeks a year where he's actually playing to capability. This is his 6th year.

Edited by 716, 03 March 2013 - 11:49 AM.


#19 HopefulFuture

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 11:54 AM

View Post716, on 03 March 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:

Stafford? I don't include Stafford on anything. I see him as a reclamation project. Stafford somehow always gets lost. For weeks on end, sometimes months. Then he'll grace us with a period of 3-4 weeks a year where he's actually playing to capability. This is his 6th year.

Now this is reasonable given the observations on Stafford. And I agree, if any player needs to moved from the forward ranks, it's Stafford for sure.

#20 qwksndmonster

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 03:41 PM

View PostDoohickie, on 03 March 2013 - 01:00 AM, said:

I appreciate your insightful and well thought-out post.
Meh :thumbsup:

#21 MattPie

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 01:37 PM

View PostThirtyEight, on 03 March 2013 - 11:42 AM, said:

True, but 2/3 of the assists are secondary. I am not saying he is a bad player, I just really hate him as a centre. Watch him with the puck tonight, he never passes to the defence and we just keeps hold of the puck for far too long. He is a very talented player who is best on the rush but I don't think he makes his linemates better. Most of his assists this season have either been irrelevant to the play or pretty pedestrian passes to the defence who then take a shot which is deflected or the rebound is put in

Florida: Irrelevant to the goal
Pittsburgh: Ehrhoff passes to him, he passes to Ehrhoff, Ehrhoff shoots the puck off Vanek's stick
Boston: First is a lovely pass to Stafford, Second he is irrelevant
Montreal: First he touches the puck and Vanek picks it up makes a move to the backhand and scores (I don't think Ennis did anything particularly important on the play); second is a scramble in the goal crease, again he didn't do anything of particular note
Boston: Ehrhoff passes to him, he passes to Ehrhoff, Ehrhoff shoots the puck off Vanek's stick
Washington: Passes to Sekera, he shoots, Foligno puts in the rebound - but in fairness I think Ennis is more involved in this play compared to his other plays
Philly: Passes to Myers who shoots and scores

Tally:
Irrelevant: II
Passes to D-man who shoots: IIII
Other: III

I'm not trying to bust your stones, but apparently the plurality of his assists came from passing to the defence.

#22 ThirtyEight

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 02:04 PM

View PostMattPie, on 04 March 2013 - 01:37 PM, said:

I'm not trying to bust your stones, but apparently the plurality of his assists came from passing to the defence.

Which is exactly why he should pass more to them :P