32 replies to this topic

[716]

Apparently both Elliot Friedman and Hockey News recently wrote about Miller's unhappiness as shown to the press lately and say it might be time to move him. Frankly, I don't think it's a bad idea but letting Darcy handling it might be a mistake.

(Friedman)

11. If there are any further moves to be made in Buffalo, the biggest impact would surround Regier and goalie Ryan Miller, who sounds incredibly unhappy. He's got a limited no-trade clause and maybe it is time. Regier just received an extension. If -- and I stress this is an if -- he is in any trouble, the team's president (Ted Black) and senior advisor (Ken Sawyer) have connections to Pittsburgh. Would Buffalo look at Tom Fitzgerald or Jason Botterill?

http://www.thehockey...in-Buffalo.html

Edited by 716, 02 March 2013 - 02:32 PM.

[PASabreFan]

Nothing to see here. Wish it was true.

[deluca67]

PASabreFan, on 02 March 2013 - 02:43 PM, said:

Nothing to see here. Wish it was true.

I wouldn't say that. The Batman avatar is pretty cool.

I sincerely doubt the Sabres front office is prepared for a move (trading Miller) of that magnitude.

[Sabres Fan In NS]

I have from time to time been an advocate of the Sabres trading Miller, but this season he is not one of the problems, at least on the ice.

I don't see it happening.

[deluca67]

Sabres Fan In NS, on 02 March 2013 - 02:50 PM, said:

I have from time to time been an advocate of the Sabres trading Miller, but this season he is not one of the problems, at least on the ice.

I don't see it happening.

IMO, it is important to separate fans reasons for wanting the Sabres to move Miller. In my case it is a matter of Miller's value and the position of the franchise. The assets you can obtain for Miller today are more of a value than Miller will be in 3-4 years from now which is when I expect the Sabres to be actual contenders at the earliest.

[Sabres Fan In NS]

DeLuca67, on 02 March 2013 - 02:56 PM, said:

IMO, it is important to separate fans reasons for wanting the Sabres to move Miller. In my case it is a matter of Miller's value and the position of the franchise. The assets you can obtain for Miller today are more of a value than Miller will be in 3-4 years from now which is when I expect the Sabres to be actual contenders at the earliest.

Oh, I agree that his trade value will never be as high as it is now.  And, I still think he should be moved now, if the Sabres were ever to contemplate doing it ... seems that the powers that be want him to retire a Sabre, along with Vanek and Pominville.  Although they probably also said something very similar about coach Ruff about 2 weeks ago.

Since Regier is still GM, the fact that Miller's trade value will never be higher than it is now is the very reason why I don't see Miller being traded now.

[dudacek]

A team in our position needs to willing to trade anyone if a deal is there that will make us a better team down the road.
But of the big three, miller is the one I'd be least likely to trade.
He is more likely than Pominville and Vanek to be playing at his current level in three years, the return on a "franchise" goalie these days does not seem to be that high and we have no one in the pipeline to slide into his spot.

[716]

If we're going nowhere, you might as well unload the big guy, especially if he hasn't cracked the top 20 goalies stats the last few years.

[LGR4GM]

Do the Sabres have a GT currently ready to take over as number who is close to Millers level? No
Can the Sabres trade Miller and get a GT prospect back who is almost to the level but can fill in in the mean time? No
Does trading Ryan Miller right now make any sense? No

[PASabreFan]

LGR4GM, on 02 March 2013 - 06:02 PM, said:

Do the Sabres have a GT currently ready to take over as number who is close to Millers level? No
Can the Sabres trade Miller and get a GT prospect back who is almost to the level but can fill in in the mean time? No
Does trading Ryan Miller right now make any sense? No

What is Miller's "level"? This is nothing more than Sabre fans overrating their players.

[Doohickie]

716, on 02 March 2013 - 02:32 PM, said:

Miller's unhappiness as shown to the press lately

Not being happy with losses in some circles is called "leadership."

[Heimdall]

he ain't going anywhere, the way he ended tonights game against the devils shows he has to much passion for this team

[inkman]

LGR4GM, on 02 March 2013 - 06:02 PM, said:

Do the Sabres have a GT currently ready to take over as number who is close to Millers level? No
Can the Sabres trade Miller and get a GT prospect back who is almost to the level but can fill in in the mean time? No
Does trading Ryan Miller right now make any sense? No

Do the Sabres have any sort of reasonable chance of winning the Cup within Miller's career peak?  No

[deluca67]

LGR4GM, on 02 March 2013 - 06:02 PM, said:

Do the Sabres have a GT currently ready to take over as number who is close to Millers level? No
Can the Sabres trade Miller and get a GT prospect back who is almost to the level but can fill in in the mean time? No
Does trading Ryan Miller right now make any sense? No

inkman, on 03 March 2013 - 03:27 AM, said:

Do the Sabres have any sort of reasonable chance of winning the Cup within Miller's career peak?  No

Inkman is 100% correct.

The Sabres can keep Miller, along with Vanek and Pominville, sign them to extensions and continue to produce a product that is a perennial playoff bubble team. At that point you might as well keep Regier and let him do what he does best, move secondary pieces in and out of the roster. Some fans wouldn't mind that. Some fans have succeeded in tricking themselves into believing this team is a player or two away and are happy with the franchise being in a perpetual state of being one or two players away. Some will only be happy with a complete rebuild.

[PASabreFan]

Heimdall, on 03 March 2013 - 02:57 AM, said:

he ain't going anywhere, the way he ended tonights game against the devils shows he has to much passion for this team

Ryan's passioniate about the Olympics.

[nfreeman]

It's hard to see how a hockey trade (as opposed to a "we need to jettison this guy" trade) involving Miller would benefit the team over either the short or long runs. No one is going to give up a top 3-5 draft choice for him. And there would be a gaping hole at G they'd need to fill.

I think it's likely we'd be looking at years in the bad goaltending/non-playoff wilderness like Toronto and Columbus.

[deluca67]

nfreeman, on 03 March 2013 - 12:45 PM, said:

It's hard to see how a hockey trade (as opposed to a "we need to jettison this guy" trade) involving Miller would benefit the team over either the short or long runs. No one is going to give up a top 3-5 draft choice for him. And there would be a gaping hole at G they'd need to fill.

I think it's likely we'd be looking at years in the bad goaltending/non-playoff wilderness like Toronto and Columbus.

The Sabres aren't exactly a perennial playoff team with Miller. It's time to take serious inventory and decide on a direction.

[PASabreFan]

nfreeman, on 03 March 2013 - 12:45 PM, said:

It's hard to see how a hockey trade (as opposed to a "we need to jettison this guy" trade) involving Miller would benefit the team over either the short or long runs. No one is going to give up a top 3-5 draft choice for him. And there would be a gaping hole at G they'd need to fill.

I think it's likely we'd be looking at years in the bad goaltending/non-playoff wilderness like Toronto and Columbus.

Meh. Miller's 15th in save percentage and 24th in GAA. You can get goaltending like that from lots of guys. Goalies make big saves. It happens all the time. The return is the key. Hopefully many GMs around the league overrate him as much as Sabre fans and media do, but I doubt it.

Edited by PASabreFan, 03 March 2013 - 12:57 PM.

[tom webster]

LGR4GM, on 02 March 2013 - 06:02 PM, said:

Do the Sabres have a GT currently ready to take over as number who is close to Millers level? No
Can the Sabres trade Miller and get a GT prospect back who is almost to the level but can fill in in the mean time? No
Does trading Ryan Miller right now make any sense? No

And finally, is there any team in desparate need of Miller right now willing to overpay? Ask Vancouver how that's working out.

[nfreeman]

DeLuca67, on 03 March 2013 - 12:52 PM, said:

The Sabres aren't exactly a perennial playoff team with Miller. It's time to take serious inventory and decide on a direction.

Absolutely.  To be clear, for the right price, I would trade him.  I just don't see anyone offering the right price and if that's correct, I don't think trading him would be the right call.

[deluca67]

nfreeman, on 03 March 2013 - 12:58 PM, said:

Absolutely.  To be clear, for the right price, I would trade him.  I just don't see anyone offering the right price and if that's correct, I don't think trading him would be the right call.

About turning the conversation in a new direction.

With Miller, Vanek and Pominville all facing the final years of their contracts, where are the cries from this fan base for this team to go balls to wall and try to win right now? I mean just completely sell out for a run next year? I mean if it takes trading Grigirenko or whoever to bring in older pieces to win right now, why not go in that direction? I think there is a good discussion to have on this train of thought.

[PASabreFan]

The elephant in the room with Miller is whether he can win the biggest games, in the biggest moments. So far in his career, not so much. Yes, I'm holding him up to an elite standard, but that's what people who know more about hockey than I do are forcing me to do. Two Game 7s, four goals against and a lost lead in the third period in one, and pulled from the other. Gold Medal game and Winter Classic, two weird game-winning goals between the wickets. The numbers will bear out that Miller's game declines as series grow longer. Games 1-4, pretty good. Games 5-7, the guy has had some issues.

I know in Darcy's fantasy world, every player improves every year ("constant improvement"), and you don't change the people, you get your people to change. So I'm sure Darcy sees Ryan Miller in three years as being better than ever. Is it realistic?

DeLuca67, on 03 March 2013 - 01:05 PM, said:

About turning the conversation in a new direction.

With Miller, Vanek and Pominville all facing the final years of their contracts, where are the cries from this fan base for this team to go balls to wall and try to win right now? I mean just completely sell out for a run next year? I mean if it takes trading Grigirenko or whoever to bring in older pieces to win right now, why not go in that direction? I think there is a good discussion to have on this train of thought.

Great thought. If they don't think they can win with this core (erg) now, why do they think they can win with it in two or three or four years? Ted Black sure doesn't think they can make a run this year. He said on WGR on Thursday that the Sabres not being buyers at the deadline is a "no-brainer."

To channel Mike Schopp's question... what are we doing here?

Trying to layer a new, championship core on top of the old one? How can they afford to do that?

Edited by PASabreFan, 03 March 2013 - 01:20 PM.

[SwampD]

Never trade proven talent for potential talent. That's all I have to say about that.

[PASabreFan]

SwampD, on 03 March 2013 - 01:19 PM, said:

Never trade proven talent for potential talent. That's all I have to say about that.

Are you saying Miller can't bring back proven talent in a trade?

[TrueBluePhD]

PASabreFan, on 03 March 2013 - 01:23 PM, said:

Are you saying Miller can't bring back proven talent in a trade?

I think in general the most likely trade partners would be a contender that needs goaltending.  For starters, those are few and far between at the moment.  Secondly, a contender is unlikely to be very interested in creating a hole to fill another, so it makes most sense that picks/prospects would be the return.  I doubt a contender would give more than a depth player or salary dump in a package from their active roster, unless they are totally desperate (in which case they're probably not a contender).  Miller likely blocks a trade to a bottom feeder by listing them on his 8 team list, so the pool of potential buyers is really small.

[inkman]

SwampD, on 03 March 2013 - 01:19 PM, said:

Never trade proven talent for potential talent. That's all I have to say about that.

How about trading a proven talent to get a better talent? Like the first pick in the NHL draft. (Not trading for the first pick just sucking enough to get it)If terry is true to his word, the Sabres should move every player they have over 25, suck for the next 5 years accumulating high draft picks, build a cup contender in 2020 (for an empty building and disenfranchised fan base).  Hey their sole purpose is winning the Stanley cup right?

Oh wait...did terry forget to mention in his edict that he nobody's feeling were going to hurt, and we want to coddle to everyone's needs and keep our guys because they are nice?

Edited by inkman, 03 March 2013 - 04:48 PM.

[SwampD]

inkman, on 03 March 2013 - 04:48 PM, said:

How about trading a proven talent to get a better talent? Like the first pick in the NHL draft. (Not trading for the first pick just sucking enough to get it)If terry is true to his word, the Sabres should move every player they have over 25, suck for the next 5 years accumulating high draft picks, build a cup contender in 2020 (for an empty building and disenfranchised fan base).  Hey their sole purpose is winning the Stanley cup right?

Oh wait...did terry forget to mention in his edict that he nobody's feeling were going to hurt, and we want to coddle to everyone's needs and keep our guys because they are nice?

All valid things to think about. I'll just never understand this Buffalo mentality that complains about not having enough talent to win, and the solution being to trade the talent that we do have. Maybe it comes from seeing our talented players leave for 20+ years, or from a coach who says,"I'll get'em in [to the playoffs]." (too soon?)

[Taro T]

nfreeman, on 03 March 2013 - 12:58 PM, said:

Absolutely.  To be clear, for the right price, I would trade him. I just don't see anyone offering the right price and if that's correct, I don't think trading him would be the right call.

Nor do I.  I don't see a scenario where the Sabres trade Miller away and end up stronger for the trade.  If it's out there, go for it, but I don't see it being out there.

[Eleven]

Taro T, on 03 March 2013 - 11:13 PM, said:

Nor do I.  I don't see a scenario where the Sabres trade Miller away and end up stronger for the trade.  If it's out there, go for it, but I don't see it being out there.

Right and right.

[PotentPowerPlay22]

Sabres Fan In NS, on 02 March 2013 - 02:50 PM, said:

I have from time to time been an advocate of the Sabres trading Miller, but this season he is not one of the problems, at least on the ice.

I don't see it happening.

I don't think it is likely. However, he may have trade value. Most of the time you have to trade an asset to get an asset in return. For instance, you won't get anything for Stafford, but you might with Miller or Myers. I would trade anyone on the roster if the price was right.

As currently constructed, the Sabres are going nowhere so trading to make the team better should always be an option. Unfortunately, Regier assembled this mess and I have little confidence he can trade his way out of it. His best hope is to rely on the scouts to find talent in the draft. This won't be a quick fix. I hope they get a top 3 pick honestly.

[LGR4GM]

DeLuca67, on 03 March 2013 - 07:14 AM, said:

Inkman is 100% correct.

The Sabres can keep Miller, along with Vanek and Pominville, sign them to extensions and continue to produce a product that is a perennial playoff bubble team. At that point you might as well keep Regier and let him do what he does best, move secondary pieces in and out of the roster. Some fans wouldn't mind that. Some fans have succeeded in tricking themselves into believing this team is a player or two away and are happy with the franchise being in a perpetual state of being one or two players away. Some will only be happy with a complete rebuild.

Yea because this isnt the 2nd yr in a row I have advocated trading at the deadline and tanking for a top pick... but, there isn't anyone to trade Miller to or to replace him with.

[Suffer_enuff]

Before Miller can go anywhere, the Sabres would need to bring in a goalie first. Enroth is not the team's future in net.  If the Sabres could trade a defenseman or two (or a D-man and a prospect) for a backup who wants to be a #1, then things might change. I could see sending Miller to a contender this year before the deadline, because I think after next season he's gone anyway. (I'm guessing he winds up in Detroit with his brother playing in his home state).
But, with Darcy in charge none of this will happen. Miller will finish the season as a Sabre.  If Darcy is shown the door at the end of the season, things could change by next fall, though.

[apuszczalowski]

Seriously, who is going to trade for Miller and give up anything of equal value right now? The only teams that will be looking for a veteran goaltender upgrade at thedeadline will be playoff teams. They don't give away good roster players that can effect their chances in the playoffs, they give up proscpects and draft picks. If they are a playoff team, those draft picks at best (if a 1st), will be in the 20's most likely. Teams with a chance at picks in the top 5 (or even 10) are also sellers and won't be looking to take on Miller for a run. There is not much of a market right now for top level veteran goaltending unless your willing to lower your asking price, just ask Vancouver.

There is no starter in waiting here in Buffalo like Vancouver has, so any deal would have to involve either a goalie coming back or a coresponding move to spend some assets to get a goalie back. The only logical place for a deal right now would be Detroit (with Detroit sending Howard back as part of a deal which would lower the level of prospects/picks coming back), or maybe a team like the Flyers which would probably involve the Sabres having to take Bryz back in the deal. Most other teams in the playoff hunt aren't looking for upgrades at goaltending except for Toronto (if the teams GM would want to deal Miller in the same division) who could send either Reimer or Scrivens back in the deal or possible Tampa, but they wouldn't want him long term because they have a goalie in waiting right now.

Again, as I have said many times, they don't need a full blow up rebuild of this team, they just need an aggressive GM who will be willing to give up some assetts (picks/prospects) to obtain some good players in return, and not overpay for mediocre FAs to turn this team around quickly

Its funny how there are some being accused of over valuing Miller, when their arguement against that is how he was beaten in a glorified exhibition game in a shootout by one of the best players in the league (Crosby) in a 1-1 game, was beaten by that same player playing on a stacked favorite to win the tournament in OT of a game the the only reason his team was in it and had any chance was because of him and his play (he was named MVP of that tournament because of his play), and because he was beaten in 2 game 7's in the playoffs (The first being in the finals where his defence was beaten down with injuries and forced to play their #10 defencemen IIRC? and the other in a game where he was one of the only guys to actually show up that game for his team agains the Bruins)