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Poll: Is it as bad as it looks?

The Sabres look awful -- as bad as I can remember. OTOH, this team isn't that different from the division-winning team of 2009-'10. Things may not be as bad as they seem. Which of the below comes closest to your opinion of the state of the f...

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#1 nfreeman

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 01:49 PM

Right now it seems bloody awful.  But is it really that bad?  I feel like the team that won the division in 2009-10 and came really GD close to beating Philly in the playoffs in 2010-11 is largely still here.  They're as mentally weak as ever, and losing Lindy seems to have had the effect of a punch in the stomach as opposed to lighting a fire, but it doesn't seem like they should be as bad as they are playing right now.

OTOH, losing begets losing.  Players internalize a set of lowered expectations, more losing follows, outside FAs aren't interested in joining a loser, and internal FAs want to GTFO.  There's also the haunting memory of what happened to the Bills after they let their rock go and went with young hotshots at coach.

I chose the medium-optimistic scenario.  I think the most likely scenario is that TP/TB will dump DR after this season, conduct a professional, intelligent search for a good replacement and land one (among other reasons, I think this would be a pretty plum GM job given TP's checkbook, high draft picks and good goaltending plus a few other good pieces in place.)  I also think that there is quite a bit more talent here than current results indicate, and that either Rolston or another coach will be able to get better results once things are overhauled.

But maybe I'm just kidding myself in the attempt to avoid despair.

Go Sabres.

#2 wjag

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 01:51 PM

I went with nuclear summer.  I reject the idea of nuclear winters.

#3 Spndnchz

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 01:56 PM



#4 Chris_in_UT

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 01:58 PM

I went with nuclear winter, but that probably means that the team is on the verge of a 20-game winning streak. every time I say or pick something, the exact opposite happens, so ... who knows?

#5 Potato

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 02:04 PM

Bad things, man... I mean BAD things...



#6 That Aud Smell

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 02:07 PM

i want with medium pessimistic.

even so, a few years of sucking would have a way of infusing the talent with some elite talent.

a thought had occurred to me: did lindy just break these guys?

#7 Spndnchz

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 02:10 PM

View PostThat Aud Smell, on 25 February 2013 - 02:07 PM, said:

i want with medium pessimistic.

even so, a few years of sucking would have a way of infusing the talent with some elite talent.

a thought had occurred to me: did lindy just break these guys?
Or did he get tired of fixing them?  I go Nuclear unless something changes besides bringing up Porter and Pardy.

#8 CallawaySabres

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 02:16 PM

Fire Darcy
Trade for O'Reilly
Draft top 3

The nightmare is over.......

#9 Touched by Boyes

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 02:25 PM

Medium Pessimistic.

I think part of the struggles recently has been attributed to a poor mix of players, specifically the lack of a defensive capable centerman. I am intrigued by the prospects of our young centermen (Hodgson, Ennis, Grigo) but at the moment they are probably the worst group in terms of face-off/defensive zone start ability/coverage. This is why the Sabres as a team seem to be pinned in their zone for eons every game. We can't takeaway the puck and when we get stoppages we can't win the faceoffs to gain possession.

I think as a whole we have competitive amounts of talent, it is just not the right kind of talent and players are being put in situations that they have limited chance of success. A player like Ennis should be given a high percentage of offensive zone starts and skilled wingers and I believe he can be a 70 pt/season player. Same with Hodgson. Unfortunately there is no center/line to take the remaining defensive zone starts to allow this. Right now our best defensive type players are Pomminstein, Kaleta and Ott. That's about it.

Ultimately this falls on Regier as he hasn't put together the right mix of players to make an effective team. Right now the Sabres are just a bunch of players with no coherent team building strategy. But there are young players with flashes of skill that could come together with a few key moves to get a dedicated checking/defensive line here. But it's a few seasons of moves/development away...

#10 sizzlemeister

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 02:27 PM

View PostSpndnchz, on 25 February 2013 - 02:10 PM, said:

Or did he get tired of fixing them?

I actually fall on the side of Lindy getting tired with this group, for whatever that is worth. The only additional question is how much of this group Lindy helped to select; what is his percentage of blame for putting it together if you will.

I voted medium pessimistic. I don't think we'll see a contender-type team emerge until Regier is gone and there is a new coaching staff in place. This can happen over the summer, so I'm not convinced we're in for another 40 years wandering the desert.

#11 WildCard

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 02:35 PM

View PostCallawaySabres, on 25 February 2013 - 02:16 PM, said:

Fire Darcy
Trade for O'Reilly
Draft top 3

The nightmare is over.......

This would be my ideal scenario, but given Buffalo sports' luck I have to assume that the last two aspects won't happen. Although I was shocked Lindy was fired, especially midseason, I can't believe a second year owner is going to can his GM midseason as well, especially seeeing as he just signed him to an extension (which i think/hope will be meaningless at the end of the year, but not during). That being said I can't see a way in which Darcy manages to get O'Reily; even though this may be make-or-break for him he never fails to play it safe.
Fire Darcy-Hire Jim Nill
Get O'Reily (ideally, though I'm not sure likely)
Pick top ten in a deep draft

#12 R_dudly

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 03:42 PM

I voted medium pessimistic.

I see the same things TbB and sizzle mention. Some intriging talent with a wrong mix of players, missing the right attitude. By right attitude I mean not enough people in the organization that absolutely hate losing and will do everything in their power to change it.  

Once  Regier is gone, a new coaching staff, the right player moves it's going to take a couple years. Match that to a system that takes advantage of the players skills and supports the youthful learning curve and we are back in it and building towards something instead of always chasing/trying to sneak in and catch lighting in a bottle.

IMO, That's a culture change from the team I see now and that will take more changes and time.

#13 Ghost of Dwight Drane

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 03:46 PM

You need to fire Darcy...Today!!!

This team is not far off...IF....you make the right moves and focus on a grinding, heart and soul team...and get a backup goalie that can limit Miller to 60 games.

You need a coach in here that will let guys cycle, and who have the body and drive to play hard defense.

You NEED to get rid of some guys that have value to get the base for what you need in here. Pominville needs to be stripped of the C....so that is embarassing and you should move him. He's just the type of guy that would let you take it from him....which is why he should have never been captain to begin with. Stafford had hope at one point....MAYBE you can hold onto him. You can build around Vanek, but if he or Miller need to go, then they go.

You have the defensive talent in the pipeline to pull this off in fast fashion.

Keep...or at least think of keeping the following......

Lieno - He is the perfect example of a guy Lindy stifled. Put him on a line with Grigorenko and watch them flourish together
Grigorenko - see above
Ott - Let the guy do his thing, and bring in others to roll with him
Foligno - Maybe he can run with Ott.....see my target below as to who will center
Vanek - He should have a chance to improve....even if you don't bring in the most creative center around, he can play a chippy style if protected and wait for the centers to develop. May be worth trading though
Ennis - my first thought is trade, but if you move him to the wing...Ennis-Grigorenko-Lieno could be your "scoring" line, but actually your 3rd line.
Gerbe-Kaleta-McCormick......for as much as people say "no talent", they would thrive in a system built for them and probably actually score more as well. This would be a fun pester 4th line....you have to let them do what their personalities were made for....not play Lindy-Jochen Hockey.....

Trade Bait: Pominville - has to go, Stafford - broken most likely at this point, Hodgson - hope someone else doesn't pay attention to his defense

Release: Hecht, Scott

Keep:

Ehrhoff - He has spunk and personality that can unwind and can be your main puck mover
Weber - He will be a letter wearer one day and he survived Lindy. Congrats Mike
Regehr - Resign him and let him and Weber float between you #3-#5
McNabb - Lindy is gone...not sure how his game has gone in Rochester, but bring him up now
Brennan - Kid has some personality as well and should improve with a young, go-get'em coach

Trade Bait:

Myers - He is beyond slumping. He looks like a 12 year old fat kid trying to skate the puck out of his zone. I have no idea who will bite at this point
Sekera - While he has improved his overall game, he showed zero grit in the playoffs. You maybe could keep him....but to me, he and Stafford are posterkids for the team we have seen the past 3 years
Leopold - Get a 4th for him if you can

Don't care: Sulzer, Pardy

Keep: Miller - am on the fence with this one, but he chimed in early in the year and has spoken his mind....and bluntly. His game has also looked close to elite at times even though the results aren't there. If you build this team to go with his style, you can win.

Get: A backup ala early Biron who can start a solid 20 or so games

So.....Pominville, Myers, Sekera, Hodgson, Stafford.....on the block.

Who do I target?.....I want Martin Hanzal here and have for 3 years. You put him between Ott and Foligno and the city would fall in love. The opposition wouldn't get a free inch for their 17 minutes on the ice

O'Riley is interesting. Say you do go for him.....I'd take my chances

Then you get one more puck-moving defenseman with some guts and who plays the body if you can.

Then you bite the bullet and bring in Doan or Iginla to captain this ship.

Can you net O'Riley, Hanzal, Iginla for Myers, Pominville, Hodgson, Sekera, Stafford???


What you are doing is building a poor-man's Rangers here until some of the young guys can step up in a year or two. If everyone gels....you can actually move on in the playoffs with this type of team. If the team can't put enough pucks in the net....you should be able to respect the heck out of them and never question the effort.The defense looks light on paper....but the synergy with the offense and having Miller on his game should be enough to make this a playoff team. You don't play Lindy-Jochen scared....you take the game to the other team for 60 minutes with pure effort....and you have enough talent to put some pucks in the net.

Vanek - O'Riley - Iginla
Ott - Hanzal - Foligno
Ennis - Grigorenko - Lieno
Gerbe - McCormick - Kaleta

Ehrhoff - Regehr
Brennan - Weber
McNabb - Sulzer?

Miller
?

You can probably get this team on the ice with 2 weeks of phone calls....or something that looks very similar.

Sad thing is, I've offered up the same idea for 4 years now...but our assets are dwindling or broken, and you can't fetch what you may have in the past. You can still turn this into a playoff built team in fast order.

#14 TrueBluePhD

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 03:55 PM

View PostCallawaySabres, on 25 February 2013 - 02:16 PM, said:

Fire Darcy
Trade for O'Reilly
Draft top 3

The nightmare is over.......

This is basically where I'm at. I don't think we're THAT far away from being a good team, but getting there is going to take some moves beyond selling UFAs at the deadline for second round picks. However if Darcy is retained, I have full confidence we'll officially he Calgary East,  which is really the worst of all worlds.

#15 R_dudly

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 03:57 PM

View PostGhost of Dwight Drane, on 25 February 2013 - 03:46 PM, said:

You need to fire Darcy...Today!!!

This team is not far off...IF....you make the right moves and focus on a grinding, heart and soul team...and get a backup goalie that can limit Miller to 60 games.

You need a coach in here that will let guys cycle, and who have the body and drive to play hard defense.

You NEED to get rid of some guys that have value to get the base for what you need in here. Pominville needs to be stripped of the C....so that is embarassing and you should move him. He's just the type of guy that would let you take it from him....which is why he should have never been captain to begin with. Stafford had hope at one point....MAYBE you can hold onto him. You can build around Vanek, but if he or Miller need to go, then they go.

You have the defensive talent in the pipeline to pull this off in fast fashion.

Keep...or at least think of keeping the following......

Lieno - He is the perfect example of a guy Lindy stifled. Put him on a line with Grigorenko and watch them flourish together
Grigorenko - see above
Ott - Let the guy do his thing, and bring in others to roll with him
Foligno - Maybe he can run with Ott.....see my target below as to who will center
Vanek - He should have a chance to improve....even if you don't bring in the most creative center around, he can play a chippy style if protected and wait for the centers to develop. May be worth trading though
Ennis - my first thought is trade, but if you move him to the wing...Ennis-Grigorenko-Lieno could be your "scoring" line, but actually your 3rd line.
Gerbe-Kaleta-McCormick......for as much as people say "no talent", they would thrive in a system built for them and probably actually score more as well. This would be a fun pester 4th line....you have to let them do what their personalities were made for....not play Lindy-Jochen Hockey.....

Trade Bait: Pominville - has to go, Stafford - broken most likely at this point, Hodgson - hope someone else doesn't pay attention to his defense

Release: Hecht, Scott

Keep:

Ehrhoff - He has spunk and personality that can unwind and can be your main puck mover
Weber - He will be a letter wearer one day and he survived Lindy. Congrats Mike
Regehr - Resign him and let him and Weber float between you #3-#5
McNabb - Lindy is gone...not sure how his game has gone in Rochester, but bring him up now
Brennan - Kid has some personality as well and should improve with a young, go-get'em coach

Trade Bait:

Myers - He is beyond slumping. He looks like a 12 year old fat kid trying to skate the puck out of his zone. I have no idea who will bite at this point
Sekera - While he has improved his overall game, he showed zero grit in the playoffs. You maybe could keep him....but to me, he and Stafford are posterkids for the team we have seen the past 3 years
Leopold - Get a 4th for him if you can

Don't care: Sulzer, Pardy

Keep: Miller - am on the fence with this one, but he chimed in early in the year and has spoken his mind....and bluntly. His game has also looked close to elite at times even though the results aren't there. If you build this team to go with his style, you can win.

Get: A backup ala early Biron who can start a solid 20 or so games

So.....Pominville, Myers, Sekera, Hodgson, Stafford.....on the block.

Who do I target?.....I want Martin Hanzal here and have for 3 years. You put him between Ott and Foligno and the city would fall in love. The opposition wouldn't get a free inch for their 17 minutes on the ice

O'Riley is interesting. Say you do go for him.....I'd take my chances

Then you get one more puck-moving defenseman with some guts and who plays the body if you can.

Then you bite the bullet and bring in Doan or Iginla to captain this ship.

Can you net O'Riley, Hanzal, Iginla for Myers, Pominville, Hodgson, Sekera, Stafford???


What you are doing is building a poor-man's Rangers here until some of the young guys can step up in a year or two. If everyone gels....you can actually move on in the playoffs with this type of team. If the team can't put enough pucks in the net....you should be able to respect the heck out of them and never question the effort.The defense looks light on paper....but the synergy with the offense and having Miller on his game should be enough to make this a playoff team. You don't play Lindy-Jochen scared....you take the game to the other team for 60 minutes with pure effort....and you have enough talent to put some pucks in the net.

Vanek - O'Riley - Iginla
Ott - Hanzal - Foligno
Ennis - Grigorenko - Lieno
Gerbe - McCormick - Kaleta

Ehrhoff - Regehr
Brennan - Weber
McNabb - Sulzer?

Miller
?

You can probably get this team on the ice with 2 weeks of phone calls....or something that looks very similar.

Sad thing is, I've offered up the same idea for 4 years now...but our assets are dwindling or broken, and you can't fetch what you may have in the past. You can still turn this into a playoff built team in fast order.

+1
Wow, nice total makeover plan and it starts today. Drastic times require drastic measures. I would love to see management pull something off like this.

Unfortunately my pessimistic vote doesn't see them doing something this bold or acting quickly.

Edited by R_dudly, 25 February 2013 - 03:57 PM.


#16 gomper

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 04:09 PM

I went with the Nuclear option but after some thought. It comes down to the fact that when your team is so totally bankrupt of character and heart, it's time to drop the bomb and start again. While some true talent is on the roster they have some major holes. Reminds me of the Bills in some respects. A huge void exists down the middle and a D that on some nights can't execute the most basic of plays. Forwards who have no concept of effort and couldn't backcheck to save their paychecks. The only saving grace is Miller.

So, yes. Blow it up and start again.

#17 sizzlemeister

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 04:14 PM

View PostGhost of Dwight Drane, on 25 February 2013 - 03:46 PM, said:


Weber - He will be a letter wearer one day and he survived Lindy. Congrats Mike


Good post, GoDD.  That's a plan I could buy into.

I had to point out the quoted above...it made me chuckle.  Not too many of us have stayed on the Weber train for the whole ride, but he has proven he has what it takes to be in the top six.  I can even agree with the letter perhaps, although unless he flourishes with the changes, I don't think he gets the "C".

#18 PASabreFan

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 04:15 PM

I was surprised that I picked medium-optimistic (like a guy with gastroenteritis ordering wings). But that has something to do with the wording. I honestly think nfreeman somehow mind &^%^ed me into picking that.

Ultimately, I really don't know. I think we're all too close to it. Ghost thinks the Sabres aren't far off, go figure. Let's get a GM in here with some cred, fresh set of eyes and trust in the evaluation for once. Get behind the plan, whatever that is. I'd be surprised if it wasn't closer to blow it up than exchange some parts.

#19 Ghost of Dwight Drane

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 04:18 PM

View PostR_dudly, on 25 February 2013 - 03:57 PM, said:

+1
Wow, nice total makeover plan and it starts today. Drastic times require drastic measures. I would love to see management pull something off like this.

Unfortunately my pessimistic vote doesn't see them doing something this bold or acting quickly.

Sad thing is...you could have gotten Getzlaf for Myers last year.....I don't think Phoenix would give you Hanzal for him now.....

It's finally to the point where most Sabre fans are at the same point....just give us a team we can respect and have a shot with. If we had been selling the past few deadlines and took our medicine, it wouldn't be this bad.

#20 HopefulFuture

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 04:21 PM

Trading for O'Reilly is a joke. The kid has one season over 50 points and to hear it on this board, he's the second coming.
Please, wake up to the reality that he is not going to remotely come close to solving what ails this team.

As for a top draft pick, yea, but that also will not come close to solving this teams woes.

GoDD, nice looking plan, but it won't happen, to many moves, and not realistic on the demand side for some of those you mention as well as who you want to keep. Many of those you list have dissappeared as well, so it should be obvious they aren't game changers......yet.

The only thing that is going to right this ship is to get rid of Darcy and have patience for another 2 or 3 years IMHO.

#21 Ghost of Dwight Drane

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 04:21 PM

View Postsizzlemeister, on 25 February 2013 - 04:14 PM, said:

Good post, GoDD.  That's a plan I could buy into.

I had to point out the quoted above...it made me chuckle.  Not too many of us have stayed on the Weber train for the whole ride, but he has proven he has what it takes to be in the top six.  I can even agree with the letter perhaps, although unless he flourishes with the changes, I don't think he gets the "C".

I love Weber's attitude. He was just young enough to beat the Lindy beatdown deadline.

If you get a coach in here who isn't worried about taking physical penalties from time to time....the hard-nosed "true" defensive play will produce more positives than negatives as the opposition hesitates coming across your blueline, and has their collective head on a swivel. When your forwards pursue and punish instead of peel off and pontificate....all of a sudden you have a respectable team.

#22 sizzlemeister

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 04:23 PM

View PostHopefulFuture, on 25 February 2013 - 04:21 PM, said:

Trading for O'Reilly is a joke. The kid has one season over 50 points and to hear it on this board, he's the second coming.
Please, wake up to the reality that he is not going to remotely come close to solving what ails this team.

Correction:  TrueBlue thinks he is the second coming.  ;)

#23 Ghost of Dwight Drane

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 04:24 PM

View PostPASabreFan, on 25 February 2013 - 04:15 PM, said:

I was surprised that I picked medium-optimistic (like a guy with gastroenteritis ordering wings). But that has something to do with the wording. I honestly think nfreeman somehow mind &^%^ed me into picking that.

Ultimately, I really don't know. I think we're all too close to it. Ghost thinks the Sabres aren't far off, go figure. Let's get a GM in here with some cred, fresh set of eyes and trust in the evaluation for once. Get behind the plan, whatever that is. I'd be surprised if it wasn't closer to blow it up than exchange some parts.

We may have to blow it up at this point. That's too bad.

I do think we can fall somewhere between Phoenix and the Rangers as far as style and success. You still need to catch a runner in order to win it all, but you give yourself more of the tools to do so. Miller playing only 60-63 games is key.

#24 HopefulFuture

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 04:25 PM

View Postsizzlemeister, on 25 February 2013 - 04:23 PM, said:

Correction:  TrueBlue thinks he is the second coming.  ;)

I stand corrected, touche' kind sir ;)

#25 TrueBluePhD

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 04:25 PM

Sigh.  Drane, I thought last year's conference finals and this season's results would have weakened your mancrush on the Rangers.  Apparently not.  In the past four years they've finished 7-9-8-1 and currently sit 9th this year.  I appreciate your conviction with the type of team you want to see, but I still maintain it's wrong and misguided.  That roster you assembled can't score nearly enough to win a championship, and that defensive unit is an unmitigated disaster IMO.  Seriously, advocating to keep Brennan yet jettison Sekera, all while having Regehr on your top pairing?  :sick:

#26 sizzlemeister

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 04:26 PM

View PostHopefulFuture, on 25 February 2013 - 04:21 PM, said:

The only thing that is going to right this ship is to get rid of Darcy and have patience for another 2 or 3 years IMHO.

That's the thing, you get the right GM, who assembles the right team under him, and a credible coach...you don't know who would find that appealing.

What's to say part of the problem with getting players to come to Hockey Heaven wasn't Ruff and Regier?  The players know what's going on inside these organizations....

Edited by sizzlemeister, 25 February 2013 - 04:27 PM.


#27 TrueBluePhD

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 04:26 PM

View Postsizzlemeister, on 25 February 2013 - 04:23 PM, said:

Correction:  TrueBlue thinks he is the second coming.  ;)

And I'm not going to back away from it either :P

#28 sizzlemeister

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 04:28 PM

View PostTrueBluePhD, on 25 February 2013 - 04:26 PM, said:

And I'm not going to back away from it either :P

That's about as much as I'm willing to dog you for your man-crush on the guy.  If they acquire him, I hope he's all you say he is. That is all...

#29 HopefulFuture

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 04:29 PM

View Postsizzlemeister, on 25 February 2013 - 04:26 PM, said:

That's the thing, you get the right GM, who assembles the right team under him, and a creditable coach...you don't know who would find that appealing.

What's to say part of the problem with getting players to come to Hockey Heaven wasn't Ruff and Regier?  The players know what's going on inside these organizations....

All very valid points. I can speculate, and surmise some, but it would still be speculation. I can however, point to the current roster and say this product was authored or co-authored by Darcy Regier, it has failed, it's time to move on from his efforts to put together a successful roster.

To me, in any event, once this occurs, we can then see another individuals vision and abilities to try to do so, it's a sight better than dealing with this repetitive cycle of a Darcy Regier product.

#30 Sabres Fan In NS

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 04:29 PM

Oh, it's pretty bad alright.

And we are not the only ones who think so ...

http://www.nhl.com/i...id=nhl:topheads

The mock drafts are starting up and the three in the above link have the Sabres drafting in the #3 spot.  The good thing is that they all have Drouin available at number 3.  And two of the 3 mockers above have the Sabres taking him ... :wub: .

Maybe that was the master plan all along.

#31 Touched by Boyes

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 04:31 PM

View PostTrueBluePhD, on 25 February 2013 - 04:26 PM, said:

And I'm not going to back away from it either :P

View Postsizzlemeister, on 25 February 2013 - 04:28 PM, said:

That's about as much as I'm willing to dog you for your man-crush on the guy.  If they acquire him, I hope he's all you say he is. That is all...
As much as I am enjoying ribbing TrueBlue, based on my post upthread regarding defensive zone starts, what this team needs most in order to improve IMO is a center who can handle the other team's top line and can be successful starting the majority of the time in the defensive zone. That's a lot easier than saying we need to get X player...

That being said, O'Reilly is exactly the kind of centerman that can handle a high % of defensive zone starts and match up agianst the other teams top line players.

#32 LabattBlue

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 04:33 PM

I voted MP because MO does not indicate that DR will be let go after the season.

#33 TrueBluePhD

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 04:34 PM

View Postsizzlemeister, on 25 February 2013 - 04:28 PM, said:

That's about as much as I'm willing to dog you for your man-crush on the guy.  If they acquire him, I hope he's all you say he is. That is all...

Haha, it's fine, I can take it!  I know I've likely gotten to the point of over-selling him, but every time I'm ready to let it drop a new post springs up saying he's not worth more than Stafford and a 2nd (not literally, but you get the idea) :(

#34 sizzlemeister

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 04:38 PM

View PostTrueBluePhD, on 25 February 2013 - 04:34 PM, said:

Haha, it's fine, I can take it!  I know I've likely gotten to the point of over-selling him, but every time I'm ready to let it drop a new post springs up saying he's not worth more than Stafford and a 2nd (not literally, but you get the idea) :(

Your saturation strategy is working on me.  Of course, that coincides with the continuing failure of the team, and a fresh perspective on trying to figure out what the hell is going on.  The stats do not lie:  Ruff was using this team wrong, but the team is also assembled poorly.  The deeper one analyzes these numbers, a more clear picture emerges; like the defensive zone starts rationale by TbB above.

It's tough, because I think a lot of us have been conditioned to expect a Stafford and/or Myers like post-contract meltdown.

#35 Touched by Boyes

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 04:47 PM

View Postsizzlemeister, on 25 February 2013 - 04:38 PM, said:

Your saturation strategy is working on me.  Of course, that coincides with the continuing failure of the team, and a fresh perspective on trying to figure out what the hell is going on.  The stats do not lie:  Ruff was using this team wrong, but the team is also assembled poorly.  The deeper one analyzes these numbers, a more clear picture emerges; like the defensive zone starts rationale by TbB above.

It's tough, because I think a lot of us have been conditioned to expect a Stafford and/or Myers like post-contract meltdown.
To continue my annoying discussion of defensive zone starts, the reason I personally wanted Ruff gone was that he did not want to have defined roles for his four lines. He would roll four lines and play them relatively equally regardless of defensive zone/offensive zone and matchups. To be more specific, the Hodgson line had the highest percentage of defensive zone starts, which puts them at a disadvantage of scoring goals (which should be the primary goal of the #1 scoring line). Essentially, by playing that line in that manner, Lindy Ruff was doing the other coaches job of neutralizing our only scoring line.

Acquiring O'Reilly to pair with Ott and Foligno (for example) to make a defensive shut down line would allow us a better chance of stopping the other team's top line while also putting the Hodgson and Ennis lines in a better position to have offensive zone starts and do their job of scoring goals and taking advantage of not being hemmed in the d zone by the other team's top line.

That gives confidence to our young centers and the foundation for specific roles - a key to playing as a team is knowing your role and doing that effectively IMO

#36 Ghost of Dwight Drane

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 04:54 PM

View PostTrueBluePhD, on 25 February 2013 - 04:25 PM, said:

Sigh.  Drane, I thought last year's conference finals and this season's results would have weakened your mancrush on the Rangers.  Apparently not.  In the past four years they've finished 7-9-8-1 and currently sit 9th this year.  I appreciate your conviction with the type of team you want to see, but I still maintain it's wrong and misguided.  That roster you assembled can't score nearly enough to win a championship, and that defensive unit is an unmitigated disaster IMO.  Seriously, advocating to keep Brennan yet jettison Sekera, all while having Regehr on your top pairing?  :sick:

They are built to keep going...and keep going.

In fact, I am not sure if you could pull it off because of contracts, but one ex-Sabre I wouldn't mind seeing come here as GM is Jim Schoenfeld.....and he can bring his coach with him...Ken Gernander...the guy who helped develop all those young guys from 7-9-8-1

Gernander has the best attributes of Lindy, but actually knows how to develop young guys and keep a balance between player's coach and no-nonsense.

The Rangers will probably win a cup in the next few years.....might as well get the people in here who know how to give you that shot.

#37 nfreeman

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 05:00 PM

View PostGhost of Dwight Drane, on 25 February 2013 - 04:54 PM, said:

They are built to keep going...and keep going.

In fact, I am not sure if you could pull it off because of contracts, but one ex-Sabre I wouldn't mind seeing come here as GM is Jim Schoenfeld.....and he can bring his coach with him...Ken Gernander...the guy who helped develop all those young guys from 7-9-8-1

Gernander has the best attributes of Lindy, but actually knows how to develop young guys and keep a balance between player's coach and no-nonsense.

The Rangers will probably win a cup in the next few years.....might as well get the people in here who know how to give you that shot.

Now that would ease some of my pain.  My only concern is that I got the impression from 24/7 that Schoeny's role wasn't so much hardcharging savvy young assistant GM but beer-drinking, wise-cracking oldtimer who got the donuts and kept everyone loose.

As for your overhaul:  I agree with pretty much everything except I think they need to keep Miller, Myers and Hodgson, and Iginla seems like his tank is empty.

#38 That Aud Smell

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 05:15 PM

View PostSpndnchz, on 25 February 2013 - 02:10 PM, said:

Or did he get tired of fixing them?

more than fair. probably a shmear of both.

#39 Ghost of Dwight Drane

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 05:22 PM

View Postnfreeman, on 25 February 2013 - 05:00 PM, said:

Now that would ease some of my pain.  My only concern is that I got the impression from 24/7 that Schoeny's role wasn't so much hardcharging savvy young assistant GM but beer-drinking, wise-cracking oldtimer who got the donuts and kept everyone loose.

As for your overhaul:  I agree with pretty much everything except I think they need to keep Miller, Myers and Hodgson, and Iginla seems like his tank is empty.

I'm ok with Miller....Hodgson will probably have to go for a center with size.....Myers.....he's lucky if he passes the acquiring team's physical.

Iginla was a great idea 10 years ago....good 4 years ago....and ok now. It's more the example set and the guy you can give the C to. Right now Ott and Regehr are the only 2 who feel worthy of a true letter, but we don't have a guy who deserves the C. Vanek would wilt with the pressure. Remember the Myers C talk? Yikes!

And Schoenfeld is the assistant GM and coach of the Rangers as well as the GM of the AHL team. That's why I think you bring the coach in as a package deal and let them go for it.

#40 thesportsbuff

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 05:32 PM

Not going to lie, things are way worse than I thought. I was pretty confident that we had a decent team and they'd find a way to turn things around. In fact, prior to the Winnipeg game, I looked at the upcoming schedule (WPG, TOR, NYI, FLA, TB) and thought, "here it is! this is the five game win streak the team needs!" Well, three games into that stretch they are 0-3 and down a head coach. They've been playing the worst hockey we've ever seen from this group and there is no end in sight.