129 replies to this topic

[Buffalo Fan]

Value is high...maybe as high as it's ever been.  

Vanek for OReilly and a pick (#1?).  

Gives us a lot of flexibility at center.  Some young wings are coming up soon (I'm thinking specifically of Armia) and with the extra pick we can restock.  No I am not smoking anything just throwing this idea out there.

[ThirtyEight]

The sabres can barely score as it is. Trading their leading scorer would be a big move. Especially as he isn't that old

Also, does anyone else think Vanek's voice doesn't fit his body? it always takes me by surprise

Edited by ThirtyEight, 21 February 2013 - 03:56 PM.

[Buffalo Fan]

ThirtyEight, on 21 February 2013 - 03:55 PM, said:

The sabres can barely score as it is. Trading their leading scorer would be a big move. Especially as he isn't that old

Yeah it is.  I just think if we are truly rebooting, then moving him cannot be out of the question.  He has some of the "old" culture issues and getting a young center to add to what we already have would take care of that position for years to come.

[ThirtyEight]

Thread Killer, on 21 February 2013 - 03:57 PM, said:

Yeah it is.  I just think if we are truly rebooting, then moving him cannot be out of the question.  He has some of the "old" culture issues and getting a young center to add to what we already have would take care of that position for years to come.

I dunno, I stand by my point that I want some vets in the top 6. People already want to get rid of Stafford (who I would trade before Vanek), so that would give us a top 6 of something like (ROR, Pommers, Coho, Ennis, Foligno, Armia) - that is too young in my mind. Youth needs direction and leadership i think

[CallawaySabres]

Thread Killer, on 21 February 2013 - 03:54 PM, said:

Value is high...maybe as high as it's ever been.  

Vanek for OReilly and a pick (#1?).  

Gives us a lot of flexibility at center.  Some young wings are coming up soon (I'm thinking specifically of Armia) and with the extra pick we can restock.  No I am not smoking anything just throwing this idea out there.

I would trade ANY player on this team and not think twice about it.......

[LabattBlue]

ThirtyEight, on 21 February 2013 - 03:59 PM, said:

I dunno, I stand by my point that I want some vets in the top 6. People already want to get rid of Stafford (who I would trade before Vanek), so that would give us a top 6 of something like (ROR, Pommers, Coho, Ennis, Foligno, Armia) - that is too young in my mind. Youth needs direction and leadership i think

Agree.  Ask Edmonton how far all that talent in their top 6 is getting them.

[Robviously]

LabattBlue, on 21 February 2013 - 04:01 PM, said:

Agree.  Ask Edmonton how far all that talent in their top 6 is getting them.

Ask them in a couple years when that talent is in their prime.

Thread Killer, on 21 February 2013 - 03:54 PM, said:

Value is high...maybe as high as it's ever been.  

Vanek for OReilly and a pick (#1?).  

Gives us a lot of flexibility at center.  Some young wings are coming up soon (I'm thinking specifically of Armia) and with the extra pick we can restock.  No I am not smoking anything just throwing this idea out there.

There's a horrible trade.

[Claude_Verret]

I can see them trading anyone on the roster at the deadline if they are out of it.  But DR just said they fired Lindy to try to make the playoffs, so I don't see them moving their leading scorer at this time.

[I am Marcellus]

Vanek's doing an amazing job this season.  I love watching him.  I'm looking forward to seeing how he does under Rolston.

[716]

I'm not sure I'd let Darcy trade off our future, especially if he may not have a job next training camp.

[carpandean]

Robviously, on 21 February 2013 - 04:12 PM, said:

There's a horrible trade.

I don't know.  If it doesn't make Colorado significantly better, it might give you two kicks at the MacKinnon can.

[TheMadKat]

Vanek's value is more than points.  He is a leader and great example for the young talent.  No one holds themselves more accountable than Vanek.  You dont trade him for a center w/ 1 good year and a crapshoot draft pick.

[sicknfla]

I would trade Miller first. I know we have nobody in the system but you are not going anywhere in the next year or two anyhow. He is not getting younger and goalies are like running backs. Sometimes the best ones come out of nowhere. Give enroth 30 games as the number 1 and see what happens. Can always get a goalie in trade or FA over the summer.

Have to believe that behind closed doors Miller has had enough anyhow. Cut the man loose. Vanek i would keep. Still young enough that he will have gas in the tank after we rebuild. Rather see Myers go before vanek.

[kishoph]

If we were to trade Vanek, I'd sure want more than O'Reilly and a pick in return.

[Heimdall]

ThirtyEight, on 21 February 2013 - 03:59 PM, said:

I dunno, I stand by my point that I want some vets in the top 6. People already want to get rid of Stafford (who I would trade before Vanek), so that would give us a top 6 of something like (ROR, Pommers, Coho, Ennis, Foligno, Armia) - that is too young in my mind. Youth needs direction and leadership i think

yeah that is where Iginla comes to mind

[dudacek]

I take it all the people against this move think Ruff was the problem?
Because if we are as far away as we've looked, trading Vanek while his value is highest might bring us closer to the Cup

[Robviously]

dudacek, on 21 February 2013 - 05:09 PM, said:

I take it all the people against this move think Ruff was the problem?
Because if we are as far away as we've looked, trading Vanek while his value is highest might bring us closer to the Cup

How long does it take to go from terrible to contender?  In most sports, about 3 years or less.

So what is a plausible Vanek trade that gets us closer to the Cup than just re-signing him and having him here for 6-7 more years?  Keep in mind, the teams with the best prospects are building for the future (i.e. not trading for a veteran whose contract expires after next year) and the current contenders don't have a ton to offer in terms of future assets.

[nfreeman]

Yuri Olesha, on 21 February 2013 - 04:28 PM, said:

Vanek's doing an amazing job this season.  I love watching him.  I'm looking forward to seeing how he does under Rolston.

Yesterday must have been a big jolt indeed, because I understood everything in one of your posts.

[waldo]

I would like to see Miller,Pom and Vanek escape.But talk about undervaluing your guy,,geez..An unproven center... and a pick for a guy who has  a chance  at 1000 pts before he is done and could probably stil put up 100 pts and 40-50 goals on an elite line? Send him to Philly and see what happens,,,I would also like to watch Miller behind the NJ d. ..and see Pom get a chance on a contender

The point is ..,regardless of whether you want to reduce my assessement of his potential a bit, where in the world would you find a guy ready to put up those numbers immediately with the right linemates??? and if you could how would you get him to play for the Sabres given the market? Guys that make everbody they play with better are hard to find. i would not say that about a Nash! The puck finds Vanek and when he has it he is unselfish.. a rare bird

The Sabres problem is if Vanek is not signing, how do Miller Pom and Regher read that.I think they can resign their best defensman now that things have changed and he is already half of a shutdown pair if you can find the right guy for the other side (myers is not that guy). With Vanek..you get to where you want to go faster.. Add two physical scoring wings that can creat some space and helpwith ozone time, a first line center,and a shut down pair and this team is a contender.

Edited by waldo, 21 February 2013 - 05:51 PM.

[Numark]

i totally agreed with you when i thought the topic title was "more vanek"

[tom webster]

Thread Killer, on 21 February 2013 - 03:54 PM, said:

Value is high...maybe as high as it's ever been.  

Vanek for OReilly and a pick (#1?).  

Gives us a lot of flexibility at center.  Some young wings are coming up soon (I'm thinking specifically of Armia) and with the extra pick we can restock.  No I am not smoking anything just throwing this idea out there.

As I said in another thread. Only in Buffalo would trading the league leading scorer at the ripe age of 29 get any serious consideration.

Edited by tom webster, 21 February 2013 - 06:25 PM.

[Braedon]

nfreeman, on 21 February 2013 - 05:16 PM, said:

Yesterday must have been a big jolt indeed, because I understood everything in one of your posts.

Ha Ha, I was thinking the same thing.  I love you Yuri but sometimes I feel like I'm reading the transcript to Bad Lip-Reading from YouTube

[I am Marcellus]

nfreeman, on 21 February 2013 - 05:16 PM, said:

Yesterday must have been a big jolt indeed, because I understood everything in one of your posts.

Plain speak is hard for me.  Keep Vanek.

[K-9]

Vanek stays. Cornerstone of the franchise.

GO SABRES!!!

[TheChimp]

You don't even give the players a chance to prove their true mettle under a hungry new coach?  Seems illogical to me.

[thanes16]

Thread Killer, on 21 February 2013 - 03:54 PM, said:

Value is high...maybe as high as it's ever been.  

Vanek for OReilly and a pick (#1?).  

Gives us a lot of flexibility at center.  Some young wings are coming up soon (I'm thinking specifically of Armia) and with the extra pick we can restock.  No I am not smoking anything just throwing this idea out there.

No, the Sabres have to keep Vanek. Leading the NHL in points, a veteran to guide the youth and he is still young enough to be playing at an elite level if and when the Sabres have their team rebuilt. Vanek for O'Reilly and a pick would be a bad trade. Right now Vanek is the Buffalo Sabres.

Edited by thanes16, 21 February 2013 - 07:24 PM.

[Glass Case Of Emotion]

nfreeman, on 15 April 2013 - 08:03 AM, said:

I don't think this will happen.  I think it would send a message, both internally and to the rest of the NHL, that Miller is gone -- and would put the Sabres into a corner in that they would have to trade him this summer, which would give the other side negotiating leverage.

I agree that it's good to see Jhonas get his mojo back.  We should remember, though, that the last 2 opponents he's faced have been running for the bus.

Speaking of running for the bus:  I'm getting that vibe from Vanek.  He looks like he's mentally sold his house and moved on to his next team.

I don't think I'll be unhappy if it happens.

TB is still the second highest scoring team in the league at 3.1 gpg and was averaging above that for April (7 games) heading into yesterday's game.

I think Vanek is just done with this year, I think he signs an extension this summer 8 by 8.

[LGR4GM]

Glass Case Of Emotion, on 15 April 2013 - 08:16 AM, said:

TB is still the second highest scoring team in the league at 3.1 gpg and was averaging above that for April (7 games) heading into yesterday's game.

I think Vanek is just done with this year, I think he signs an extension this summer 8 by 8.

As long as that isn't with us okay.


Not to bag on Vanek but he really needs to bring more to the table if he is going to get paid like Crosby/Stamkos that level of guy.

[Glass Case Of Emotion]

LGR4GM, on 15 April 2013 - 08:19 AM, said:

As long as that isn't with us okay.


Not to bag on Vanek but he really needs to bring more to the table if he is going to get paid like Crosby/Stamkos that level of guy.

He's going to get a raise. And he's better that Parise, so it will be between 7.75 and 8.25. I'd sign up for that.

[LGR4GM]

Glass Case Of Emotion, on 15 April 2013 - 08:29 AM, said:

He's going to get a raise. And he's better that Parise, so it will be between 7.75 and 8.25. I'd sign up for that.

I honestly would not sign Vanek for that.  maybe for a couple of years but 7-8yrs is a contract he will never live up to.

[deluca67]

Glass Case Of Emotion, on 15 April 2013 - 08:16 AM, said:

TB is still the second highest scoring team in the league at 3.1 gpg and was averaging above that for April (7 games) heading into yesterday's game.

I think Vanek is just done with this year, I think he signs an extension this summer 8 by 8.

Why would he? He'll have the entire league knocking at his door. He's too smart to sign an extension and waste the rest of his career in Buffalo. He was prepared to leave once, there is no reason to believe he isn't looking forward to a better situation. He'll pretty much have his pick of teams, why stay with a team that is at stage one of rebuilding?

[Glass Case Of Emotion]

deluca67, on 15 April 2013 - 08:43 AM, said:

Why would he? He'll have the entire league knocking at his door. He's too smart to sign an extension and waste the rest of his career in Buffalo. He was prepared to leave once, there is no reason to believe he isn't looking forward to a better situation. He'll pretty much have his pick of teams, why stay with a team that is at stage one of rebuilding?

They can offer him 12.5% 14.3% more money than anyone else.

Edited by Glass Case Of Emotion, 15 April 2013 - 08:46 AM.

[deluca67]

nfreeman, on 15 April 2013 - 08:03 AM, said:

I don't think this will happen.  I think it would send a message, both internally and to the rest of the NHL, that Miller is gone -- and would put the Sabres into a corner in that they would have to trade him this summer, which would give the other side negotiating leverage.

I agree that it's good to see Jhonas get his mojo back.  We should remember, though, that the last 2 opponents he's faced have been running for the bus.

Speaking of running for the bus:  I'm getting that vibe from Vanek.  He looks like he's mentally sold his house and moved on to his next team.

I don't think I'll be unhappy if it happens.

If true, this isn't the type of player you want in the locker room when rebuilding.

[deluca67]

Glass Case Of Emotion, on 15 April 2013 - 08:45 AM, said:

They can offer him 12.5% more money than anyone else.

You don't think he would pass on the 12.5% for a chance to play in the playoffs and possibly for a Cup?

[Glass Case Of Emotion]

deluca67, on 15 April 2013 - 08:47 AM, said:

You don't think he would pass on the 12.5% for a chance to play in the playoffs and possibly for a Cup?

No. $8-$9M is a lot of money.

[Rico7]

deluca67, on 15 April 2013 - 08:47 AM, said:

You don't think he would pass on the 12.5% for a chance to play in the playoffs and possibly for a Cup?

Absolutely not.

[Glass Case Of Emotion]

deluca67, on 15 April 2013 - 08:43 AM, said:

Why would he? He'll have the entire league knocking at his door. He's too smart to sign an extension and waste the rest of his career in Buffalo. He was prepared to leave once, there is no reason to believe he isn't looking forward to a better situation. He'll pretty much have his pick of teams, why stay with a team that is at stage one of rebuilding?

Also, we're talking about an 8 year contract here. Do you believe with any level of certainty that the Sabres will not compete for a cup for the next 8 9 years? He's 29, not 39.

Edited by Glass Case Of Emotion, 15 April 2013 - 09:01 AM.

[deluca67]

Glass Case Of Emotion, on 15 April 2013 - 08:48 AM, said:

No. $8-$9M is a lot of money.

We'll have to agree to disagree. Vanek has already banked a ton of money. IMO, his next move will about about legacy, he'll still get paid a big time contract, I can see his focus being on putting himself in the best position to win.

Glass Case Of Emotion, on 15 April 2013 - 09:01 AM, said:

Also, we're talking about an 8 year contract here. Do you believe with any level of certainty that the Sabres will not compete for a cup for the next 8 9 years? He's 29, not 39.

I think it will at least be a few years, if you're Vanek and you can call your own shot, do you want to sit around and wait a few more seasons for a chance to contend? Wasn't there a comment from Vanek after Pominville was trades about his unwillingness to sit through a long rebuild?

[Claude_Verret]

deluca67, on 15 April 2013 - 09:04 AM, said:

I think it will at least be a few years, if you're Vanek and you can call your own shot, do you want to sit around and wait a few more seasons for a chance to contend? Wasn't there a comment from Vanek after Pominville was trades about his unwillingness to sit through a long rebuild?

I think he made that comment before the trade.  He was asked about it again after the trade and said something to the effect that he'd need to evaluate the situation.

[nfreeman]

Glass Case Of Emotion, on 15 April 2013 - 08:16 AM, said:

TB is still the second highest scoring team in the league at 3.1 gpg and was averaging above that for April (7 games) heading into yesterday's game.

I think Vanek is just done with this year, I think he signs an extension this summer 8 by 8.

Good info on TB -- thanks.  Still, I didn't see any fire out of them yesterday

As for Vanek -- I would be amazed, and deeply unhappy, if the Sabres gave him $8MM x 8 years.

Glass Case Of Emotion, on 15 April 2013 - 08:29 AM, said:

He's going to get a raise. And he's better that Parise, so it will be between 7.75 and 8.25. I'd sign up for that.

JP Parise, who's 71?  Perhaps you mean Mrs. Parisi, my 10th-grade science teacher?  Because you can't possibly be referring to Zach Parise, who is a much better player than Vanek is.

I'm starting to get worried that Vanek has caught you on the rebound, when your hormones are in a tizzy...

deluca67, on 15 April 2013 - 09:04 AM, said:

We'll have to agree to disagree. Vanek has already banked a ton of money. IMO, his next move will about about legacy, he'll still get paid a big time contract, I can see his focus being on putting himself in the best position to win.

I'm not sure it's about legacy, but I do think Vanek thinks winning is more fun than losing.

I guess I think that he's probably gone unless the Sabres' offer is substantially better than any other offer he expects to get as a UFA -- and I don't expect that to be the case.

Separately:  I hadn't realized until yesterday that Porter (who was 2nd among Sabres forwards in ice time yesterday with almost 19 minutes) had been the captain of the Amerks.  I did some google and found out that Rolston had named him captain at the beginning of this season.  So Rolston obviously thinks highly of him -- and if Rolston is back next year, I think we can expect Porter to be back too.  Maybe he's the #3 center next year.

Edited by nfreeman, 15 April 2013 - 09:21 AM.