149 replies to this topic

[PromoTheRobot]

http://espn.go.com/b...nment-is-coming

Makes sense, except for Tampa and Florida in with Buffalo, Boston, Ottawa, Montreal and Toronto...but then again you have all the snowbirds.

PTR

[Potato]

That looks pretty good to me.

[IKnowPhysics]

The list is the 2011 realignment plan that was rejected by the NHLPA for various reasons (some were labor/lockout-related).

Red Wings and Blue Jackets want to change conferences.  Tampa's whining about traveling to the northeast.  Nobody knows where the Coyotes are playing next year.

I could make a case for exchanging Florida and Tampa for Pittsburgh and Philly, but from a we-want-sucky-competition-to-make-the-playoffs stand point, I'm ok as is.

Edited by IKnowPhysics, 13 February 2013 - 05:02 PM.

[Robviously]

PromoTheRobot, on 13 February 2013 - 04:38 PM, said:

http://espn.go.com/b...nment-is-coming

Makes sense, except for Tampa and Florida in with Buffalo, Boston, Ottawa, Montreal and Toronto...but then again you have all the snowbirds.

PTR

Still love this realignment plan.  Hope they finally get it done.

[IKnowPhysics]

[Robviously]

"Better" if you never want the Sabres to make the playoffs again.  Also pretty sure the NY/NJ teams won't like losing their traditional rivals so that they can play with four non-hockey markets.

[IKnowPhysics]

Nah, we'd crack the required top four for the divisional playoffs in that arrangement, but it'd be more guaranteed to get there with the Florida teams in our division, yes.  NY teams wouldn't care about losing the PA teams when they realized their improved odds at making the playoffs.

Not a big deal either way.

If Columbus, Detroit, QC, Hamilton, or Markham end up in the NE, it might get pushed this way anyways.

Edited by IKnowPhysics, 13 February 2013 - 05:46 PM.

[Robviously]

IKnowPhysics, on 13 February 2013 - 05:44 PM, said:

Nah, we'd crack the required top four for the divisional playoffs in that arrangement, but it'd be more guaranteed to get there with the Florida teams in our division, yes.  NY teams wouldn't care about losing the PA teams when they realized their improved odds at making the playoffs.

Not a big deal either way.

Under the Proposed plan, both of the "Eastern" conferences get two non-hockey markets (the Florida teams in one and Carolina/Washington in the other).  Seems fair to me.  Plus seeing Stamkos more often would be cool.

[Touched by Boyes]

Robviously, on 13 February 2013 - 05:47 PM, said:

Under the Proposed plan, both of the "Eastern" conferences get two non-hockey markets (the Florida teams in one and Carolina/Washington in the other).  Seems fair to me.  Plus seeing Stamkos more often would be cool.

You also have to remember that under the proposed plan every team plays every team, which is a bonus to fans in that you get to see west coast stars and the equality of playoffs

[IKnowPhysics]

For the interested, team series records for Buffalo: http://mcubed.net/nh...f/series2.shtml

Quote

A L L G A M E S   H O M E A W A Y P L A Y O F F S

TEAM    W-L-T  Win % GFPG GAPG   W-L-T  Win % GFPG GAPG   W-L-T  Win % GFPG GAPG   W-L-T  Win % GFPG GAPG  
San Jose Sharks 18-7-4  69.0  3.9  2.9 | 14-1-0  93.3  4.5  2.7 | 4-6-4  42.9  3.3  3.0 | 0-0-0   0.0  0.0  0.0
Tampa Bay Lightning    47-22-5  66.9  3.3  2.5 |    22-13-2  62.2  3.3  2.8 | 25-9-3  71.6  3.4  2.3 | 0-0-0   0.0  0.0  0.0
Anaheim Ducks   15-8-3  63.5  3.0  2.1 | 7-3-3  65.4  3.0  2.2 | 8-5-0  61.5  3.0  2.1 | 0-0-0   0.0  0.0  0.0
Washington Capitals   85-46-15  63.4  3.6  2.6 |    44-23-6  64.4  3.8  2.6 |    41-23-9  62.3  3.4  2.6 | 2-4-0  33.3  1.8  2.2
Phoenix Coyotes    39-22-7  62.5  3.6  2.7 | 22-8-5  70.0  3.9  2.5 |    17-14-2  54.5  3.2  2.9 | 0-0-0   0.0  0.0  0.0
Florida Panthers   42-26-4  61.1  2.9  2.3 |    24-10-3  68.9  3.0  2.1 |    18-16-1  52.9  2.8  2.6 | 0-0-0   0.0  0.0  0.0
Toronto Maple Leafs 106-65-18  60.8  3.7  2.8 |    63-26-6  69.5  4.0  2.6 |   43-39-12  52.1  3.4  3.0 | 4-1-0  80.0  4.2  3.2
Minnesota Wild   7-5-0  58.3  2.5  2.3 | 2-4-0  33.3  2.2  2.8 | 5-1-0  83.3  2.8  1.8 | 0-0-0   0.0  0.0  0.0
Calgary Flames    48-33-16  57.7  3.6  3.1 |    30-13-5  67.7  4.1  2.8 |   18-20-11  48.0  3.1  3.4 | 0-0-0   0.0  0.0  0.0
Carolina Hurricanes   99-73-18  56.8  3.4  2.9 |    56-31-7  63.3  3.9  2.9 |   43-42-11  50.5  3.0  2.9 | 3-4-0  42.9  2.4  3.1
Los Angeles Kings 55-40-18  56.6  3.8  3.2 |    31-16-9  63.4  4.2  2.9 |    24-24-9  50.0  3.4  3.5 | 0-0-0   0.0  0.0  0.0
Chicago Blackhawks    61-46-13  56.3  3.3  2.8 |    39-15-7  69.7  3.7  2.5 |    22-31-6  42.4  2.7  3.2 | 8-1-0  88.9  4.0  1.9
New Jersey Devils 72-54-17  56.3  3.3  2.8 |    38-25-8  59.2  3.5  2.9 |    34-29-9  53.5  3.0  2.8 | 3-4-0  42.9  2.0  2.0
New York Rangers 83-63-25  55.8  3.3  3.0 |   51-26-10  64.4  3.9  2.9 |   32-37-15  47.0  2.7  3.1 | 6-3-0  66.7  3.1  2.1
Ottawa Senators   69-54-10  55.6  2.8  2.5 |    35-28-3  55.3  3.0  2.5 |    34-26-7  56.0  2.6  2.6 | 13-8-0  61.9  2.5  2.2
Dallas Stars 59-49-17  54.0  3.2  2.9 |   33-18-11  62.1  3.5  2.7 |    26-31-6  46.0  2.9  3.2 | 5-8-0  38.5  2.8  3.0
New York Islanders    81-72-18  52.6  3.1  2.9 |    46-31-9  58.7  3.3  2.8 |    35-41-9  46.5  2.8  3.0 | 8-13-0  38.1  3.0  3.3
Vancouver Canucks 52-46-19  52.6  3.4  3.2 |    33-18-8  62.7  3.6  2.8 |   19-28-11  42.2  3.1  3.7 | 6-1-0  85.7  4.0  2.0
Montreal Canadiens 133-124-31  51.6  3.0  3.1 |   78-46-19  61.2  3.2  2.7 |   55-78-12  42.1  2.9  3.5 |    17-18-0  48.6  3.2  3.5
Detroit Red Wings 53-50-13  51.3  3.5  3.3 |    34-15-8  66.7  4.2  3.0 |    19-35-5  36.4  2.8  3.7 | 0-0-0   0.0  0.0  0.0
Colorado Avalanche    61-60-20  50.4  3.5  3.5 |    38-23-9  60.7  3.9  3.3 |   23-37-11  40.1  3.1  3.6 | 2-6-0  25.0  3.4  4.4
Nashville Predators 7-7-1  50.0  2.7  2.7 | 1-5-1  21.4  2.9  3.7 | 6-2-0  75.0  2.5  1.8 | 0-0-0   0.0  0.0  0.0
Boston Bruins   134-145-29  48.2  3.2  3.3 |   83-55-15  59.2  3.6  2.9 |   51-90-14  37.4  2.9  3.6 |    20-25-0  44.4  3.2  3.4
St. Louis Blues   47-51-13  48.2  3.1  3.4 |    32-19-6  61.4  3.7  3.1 |    15-32-7  34.3  2.5  3.6 | 2-1-0  66.7  2.3  2.7
Pittsburgh Penguins   66-79-35  46.4  3.3  3.2 |   41-33-17  54.4  3.6  2.8 |   25-46-18  38.2  3.0  3.7 | 4-6-0  40.0  2.6  2.6
Winnipeg Jets 21-26-1  44.8  3.6  3.0 |    14-10-0  58.3  4.4  2.8 | 7-16-1  31.3  2.8  3.3 | 0-0-0   0.0  0.0  0.0
Philadelphia Flyers 82-106-20  44.2  2.9  3.1 |    51-41-8  55.0  3.3  2.8 |   31-65-12  34.3  2.6  3.4 |    21-29-0  42.0  2.8  2.9
Edmonton Oilers   21-34-10  40.0  3.2  3.7 |    13-13-7  50.0  3.6  3.5 | 8-21-3  29.7  2.8  3.9 | 0-0-0   0.0  0.0  0.0
Columbus Blue Jackets    5-8-1  39.3  2.5  2.9 | 4-4-0  50.0  2.9  2.5 | 1-4-1  25.0  2.0  3.5 | 0-0-0   0.0  0.0  0.0

So if we're trying to win at all costs, our new division should be:
San Jose, Tampa, Anaheim, Washington, Phoenix, Florida, Toronto.

Pretty much guaranteed playoff entries and great chances at first round victories.

Edited by IKnowPhysics, 13 February 2013 - 05:53 PM.

[Touched by Boyes]

IKnowPhysics, on 13 February 2013 - 05:51 PM, said:

For the interested, team series records for Buffalo: http://mcubed.net/nh...f/series2.shtml



So if we're trying to win at all costs, our new division should be:
San Jose, Tampa, Anaheim, Washington, Phoenix, Florida, Toronto.

Pretty much guaranteed playoff entries and great chances at first round victories.

Interesting - I would have never guessed that we would have some of our best records against some consistently good teams (SJ, Anaheim, Washington) and horrible records against some relative bottom feeders (Columbus, Edmonton, Winnipeg). So much so that I had to check the website to see if it was backwards

[thewookie1]

I despise the playoff system they proposed last year.That and they should at least give the Conferences names.

[IKnowPhysics]

Touched by Boyes, on 13 February 2013 - 05:57 PM, said:

Interesting - I would have never guessed that we would have some of our best records against some consistently good teams (SJ, Anaheim, Washington) and horrible records against some relative bottom feeders (Columbus, Edmonton, Winnipeg). So much so that I had to check the website to see if it was backwards

Gotta remember that's all time.  15-40 years ago, your ranking would have been reversed.  Columbus is still a fluke though.  Maybe bad statistics on few games played.

Edited by IKnowPhysics, 13 February 2013 - 06:23 PM.

[Doohickie]

It only looks any good if the league expands by two.

[IKnowPhysics]

thewookie1, on 13 February 2013 - 05:59 PM, said:

That and they should at least give the Conferences names.

We could go back to Campbell/Prince of Wales and Norris/Smythe and Adams/Patrick.

[Sabres Fan In NS]

Riddle me this ...

If the Sabres have a winning record, or close, against the vast majority of teams, how come we never seem to get anywhere.

Also, hope we meet Chicago or Vancouver for the cup one day ... excellent playoff records against those two teams.

And we have only met Toronto once in the playoffs ... the ECF in 1999.

Edited by Sabres Fan In NS, 13 February 2013 - 06:09 PM.

[IKnowPhysics]

Sabres Fan In NS, on 13 February 2013 - 06:08 PM, said:

Riddle me this ...

If the Sabres have a winning record, or close, against the vast majority of teams, how come we never seem to get anywhere.

1) Expansion. It's harder now than it was.  In 1970, there were only 14 teams in the league, and 8 made the playoffs.  By 1990, there were 21 teams in the league, but 16 of them made the playoffs.  If you had a losing record, you still "went somewhere" by competing in the playoffs.  Now there's 30 teams and you need to be in the top half of the league to make the playoffs- more competition.
2) Point inflation.  With the introduction of ties, overtime losses, shootouts, etc, the required points percentage to be competitive in the league and make the playoffs increased.  Where a 0.500 record was once almost a guarantee to make the playoffs, now you need something closer to 0.567 points percentage (93 point pace on 82 games).
3) Perception.  The days of old where teams used to make the playoffs with a losing record are likely over, so fans need to get used to it.  Our current record would probably put us easily in playoff contention if this were 20 years ago.  But nowadays, we're 4 spots out of 8th.  So fans have to adjust.  We might have once had expectations that we should always be competing for the Cup, but if everything were equal among teams, we'd only win the Cup every 30 years and make the Cup semi finals every 7 years or so.

Sabres Fan In NS, on 13 February 2013 - 06:08 PM, said:

And we have only met Toronto once in the playoffs ... the ECF in 1999.

That's because Toronto spent many years in the Western Conference.

[nobody]

So if the league expands to Seattle, KC and Quebec City (with Phoenix moving to one of those) - does Columbus move into the 'atlantic'?

Or does Toronto get another team instead of KC?

[TrueBluePhD]

There's no way the NHL breaks up the Pittsburgh-Philly-NY rivalries, even if it makes sense geographically.

[PromoTheRobot]

nobody, on 13 February 2013 - 08:07 PM, said:

So if the league expands to Seattle, KC and Quebec City (with Phoenix moving to one of those) - does Columbus move into the 'atlantic'?

Or does Toronto get another team instead of KC?

Watch Seattle.  I bet they get a team next.  Could be Phoenix, could be Edmonton.  Can't believe the Pacific NW has been NHL-free so long.

PTR

[LTS]

The only logical thing for the NHL to do is cut its losses in Phoenix.  It's an absolute joke of a situation.

I don't care where you move them.  Bring them to Seattle to share space with the NBA team going back there (if that happens).  It makes things easier.  The only other logical location is Quebec City.

Having Buffalo in the building for Florida and Tampa helps sell a few more tickets during those games, but the travel is awful.

Finally, I don't care if the competition in the division is good.  It forces the team to get better to compete.  It gives them LESS of a leg to stand on so we get better results... or we end up like the Orioles.. but whatever.

[drunken idiot]

The Blue Jackets should be in Cleveland or Cincinnati. Why Columbus? Makes no sense, both Cle and Cin had arenas, also have other pro sports teams. I just don't get the whole Columbus thing. Whatever, they are there and belong in the green group.

[Who Else?]

drunken idiot, on 14 February 2013 - 09:56 AM, said:

The Blue Jackets should be in Cleveland or Cincinnati. Why Columbus? Makes no sense, both Cle and Cin had arenas, also have other pro sports teams. I just don't get the whole Columbus thing. Whatever, they are there and belong in the green group.

Ever been to their arena?  It is awesome with and everything around it.  It is downtown surrounded by plenty of other things to do.  Unfortunately they have everything but a good team.  If this franchise ever catches fire, this will be one of the premeire spots to take a road trip to watch a game.

Also Columbus is a college town without any other major sport to compete with.  If the NHL can pick up some of those college football fans filling a 19,000 seat arena shouldn't be very hard.   And no I don't live in Columbus.

[MattPie]

Who Else?, on 14 February 2013 - 10:07 AM, said:

Ever been to their arena?  It is awesome with and everything around it.  It is downtown surrounded by plenty of other things to do.  Unfortunately they have everything but a good team.  If this franchise ever catches fire, this will be one of the premeire spots to take a road trip to watch a game.

Can you imagine the carpetbaggery that would happen if Columbus were in the east? You'd have invading fans from at least 3-4 cities within a day's drive.

[BuffaloSoldier2010]

MattPie, on 14 February 2013 - 10:39 AM, said:

Can you imagine the carpetbaggery that would happen if Columbus were in the east? You'd have invading fans from at least 3-4 cities within a day's drive.

Hey, at least they'd be selling more seats!

[Robviously]

MattPie, on 14 February 2013 - 10:39 AM, said:

Can you imagine the carpetbaggery that would happen if Columbus were in the east? You'd have invading fans from at least 3-4 cities within a day's drive.

Sounds familiar.  The FNA is basically just a destination for other teams' fans at this point too.

[IKnowPhysics]

drunken idiot, on 14 February 2013 - 09:56 AM, said:

The Blue Jackets should be in Cleveland or Cincinnati. Why Columbus? Makes no sense, both Cle and Cin had arenas, also have other pro sports teams.

Television.

Columbus is the 15th most populous city in the US (as of 2010) and has no other professional sports.  Cleveland and Cincinatti, while they have larger metro stat area populations by a little bit, also have other major professional teams to eat corporate sponsorship dollars (Browns/Indians/Cavaliers, Bengals/Reds).

Edited by IKnowPhysics, 14 February 2013 - 12:41 PM.

[Doohickie]

LTS, on 14 February 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

Finally, I don't care if the competition in the division is good.  It forces the team to get better to compete.  It gives them LESS of a leg to stand on so we get better results... or we end up like the Orioles.. but whatever.

The whole college football BCS thing is warped, but local school TCU recently moved to the Big 12 Conference to put it up against better competition in an effort to have a shot at a national championship.  Texas A&M left the Big 12 to go to the SEC with the same goal.  Bottom line is if a team really wants to get better, the best way to do it is to bite off more than they can chew, get their butts handed to them, and learn how to overcome.

IKnowPhysics, on 14 February 2013 - 12:35 PM, said:

Television.

Columbus is the 15th most populous city in the US (as of 2010) and has no other professional sports.

Unless you count Ohio State....  

[apuszczalowski]

PromoTheRobot, on 14 February 2013 - 01:39 AM, said:

Watch Seattle.  I bet they get a team next.  Could be Phoenix, could be Edmonton.  Can't believe the Pacific NW has been NHL-free so long.

PTR

I would bet that Seattle would get a team first, before any other spot (except maybe KC). They are closest to getting a new arena built thats going to be for Basketball and Hockey (Deal is pending league approval for the NBA Kings to move there) and the IIRC, the potential new owner of the NBA Kings wants a NHL team for the arena too. KC has the facility already built (like Winnipeg did), but I don't know if theres an Owner there looking for a team right now. Quebec and Markham are still in the early stages of getting an arena built, so its more likely they would lose out to a place that will have one built sooner (or already in place). I think edmonton moving was just a scam to get the city talking again about the new arena and get more funding. The NHL has already said if Jamieson can't close the deal on the Coyotes, they will start looking at owners that want to relocate.

[PromoTheRobot]

drunken idiot, on 14 February 2013 - 09:56 AM, said:

The Blue Jackets should be in Cleveland or Cincinnati. Why Columbus? Makes no sense, both Cle and Cin had arenas, also have other pro sports teams. I just don't get the whole Columbus thing. Whatever, they are there and belong in the green group.

Columbus fans deserve credit for supporting the BJs as well as they have. That team has been terrible forever. We complain about the Bills and Sabres but the BJs are worse. Don't judge a fan base if their team has never left the cellar.

PTR

[SwampD]

PromoTheRobot, on 15 February 2013 - 09:58 AM, said:

Columbus fans deserve credit for supporting the BJs as well as they have. That team has been terrible forever. We complain about the Bills and Sabres but the BJs are worse. Don't judge a fan base if their team has never left the cellar.

PTR

Realignment aside, how the hell does the NHL allow a team called the BJs to have a mascot that looks like this.

[Bmwolf21]

Who Else?, on 14 February 2013 - 10:07 AM, said:

Ever been to their arena?  It is awesome with and everything around it.  It is downtown surrounded by plenty of other things to do.  Unfortunately they have everything but a good team.  If this franchise ever catches fire, this will be one of the premeire spots to take a road trip to watch a game.

This.  I love going to games in Columbus.  It is a great arena, and there is lots to do downtown.

IKnowPhysics, on 14 February 2013 - 12:35 PM, said:

Television.

Columbus is the 15th most populous city in the US (as of 2010) and has no other professional sports.  Cleveland and Cincinatti, while they have larger metro stat area populations by a little bit, also have other major professional teams to eat corporate sponsorship dollars (Browns/Indians/Cavaliers, Bengals/Reds).

Cleveland is Browns first, then everyone else.  The Lake Erie Monsters play at Quicken Loans Arena and draw quite well for an AHL team, and I think that is where Cleveland should be in terms of pro hockey (staying in the minors).  There is a lot of youth hockey here to help support a minor league team.

I have heard that youth hockey is not as widespread around Columbus, though, but I have nothing that back that up.

PromoTheRobot, on 15 February 2013 - 09:58 AM, said:

Columbus fans deserve credit for supporting the BJs as well as they have. That team has been terrible forever. We complain about the Bills and Sabres but the BJs are worse. Don't judge a fan base if their team has never left the cellar.

PTR

This too.  They just made a couple huge moves over the last year - they traded Nash, have been collecting 1st-round picks, hired John Davidson to run the hockey operations, and finally fired their incompetent GM.

Edited by Bmwolf21, 16 February 2013 - 10:13 PM.

[IKnowPhysics]

SwampD, on 15 February 2013 - 10:03 AM, said:

Realignment aside, how the hell does the NHL allow a team called the BJs to have a mascot that looks like this.

Hilarious.  I know they went all AC/DC and made their logo into the cannon, but I hadn't figured on them actually changing their mascot from the retarded yellow jacket to a giant dick and balls.

[bills_fan_in_raleigh]

i love the proposal that puts canes with caps, flyers and rangers

[Braedon]

IKnowPhysics, on 16 February 2013 - 11:45 PM, said:

Hilarious.  I know they went all AC/DC and made their logo into the cannon, but I hadn't figured on them actually changing their mascot from the retarded yellow jacket to a giant dick and balls.

They did this over 2 years ago, the bug stayed. They just added a giant phallic symbol for nights when they wore their colonial 3rd jerseys or when they played the Flames.

[All Along The Watchtower]

IKnowPhysics, on 13 February 2013 - 05:24 PM, said:

Why the Slug?

[IKnowPhysics]

Didn't make the background map, just drew the divisions.  Not sure why Winnipeg is in the right place but the Buffalo, LA, and Tampa logos are old.

Edited by IKnowPhysics, 17 February 2013 - 05:10 PM.

[Sabres Fan In NS]

IKnowPhysics, on 17 February 2013 - 05:08 PM, said:

Didn't make the background map, just drew the divisions.  Not sure why Winnipeg is in the right place but the Buffalo, LA, and Tampa logos are old.

The Peg is right, but Montreal looks a bit too close to Maine, IMO.

[Doohickie]

Braedon, on 17 February 2013 - 10:00 AM, said:

They did this over 2 years ago, the bug stayed. They just added a giant phallic symbol for nights when they wore their colonial 3rd jerseys or when they played the Flames.

I think those third jerseys are the best in the NHL.  I love they way they captured an old school feel, considering the team isn't nearly that old.  Not quote colonial, though; the stylings come from the Civil War era.

Sabres Fan In NS, on 17 February 2013 - 05:14 PM, said:

The Peg is right, but Montreal looks a bit too close to Maine, IMO.

Yeah, Montreal's about an hour north of Plattsburgh.

[IKnowPhysics]

Doohickie, on 17 February 2013 - 10:54 PM, said:

I think those third jerseys are the best in the NHL.  I love they way they captured an old school feel, considering the team isn't nearly that old.  Not quote colonial, though; the stylings come from the Civil War era.

They picked up on the retro-is-fashionable jersey trend and decided to run with the AC/DC thing that they'd been going with for a few years.





I don't think it's superbly novel, but it seems like ok mainstream marketing for a questionably-nontraditional midwestern market.  The cannon's identifiable, even if they yoinked it right off the album cover they play during the games on repeat.