34 replies to this topic

[PASabreFan]

When Terry was known to be buying the Sabres, I did a lot of thinking about why he was buying the team. One fan's due diligence. Just a fan? Longtime dream to own the Sabres? Wanted to own a hockey team and Sabres were available? Wanted it for his kids? Wanted it to dovetail with his goal of building a powerhouse program at Penn State? Wanted to help redevelop Buffalo? Wanted to flip it to make money, ala OSP? Wanted to use it as part of some political ambition, also ala OSP? Wanted to have influence in NYS to affect the fracking debate?

Like almost everyone, I came down clearly on the side of Terry being a Sabres fan and having a longtime dream of owning the team. (A small part of me wondered if he just wanted to own a team, and would have bought the Flyers and called himself a Flyers fan and cried for Bobby Clarke if that franchise had been for sale.) Anyway, I put to the side any notion that Terry had ulterior motives. My position hasn't changed. But this article in the Democrat and Chronicle certainly is interesting. The fact that Terry had the meeting in his hockey arena sure doesn't look good.

I am NOT saying I think Terry bought the team just so he could get his foot in WNY politics and have more inflluence in the fracking debate. But, who knows, maybe it was part of his thinking.

Quote

But in late November 2011, nine months after he took control of the National Hockey League club, Pegula gathered Buffalo-area officials and state lawmakers in a boardroom at then-HSBC Arena. There, he and members of his East Resources team made their pitch for large-scale hydraulic fracturing, the much-debated method used in the gas-extraction process that New York state has yet to green light.

http://www.democrata.../302070049/1168

Edited by PASabreFan, 08 February 2013 - 10:10 AM.

[Spndnchz]

[bunomatic]

He's a fracking hockey fan. What more do you want ?

[PASabreFan]

Spndnchz, on 08 February 2013 - 10:28 AM, said:

Uhhhh, OK. Make me google the lyrics, thanks. You think I'm paranoid, I take it?

[I am Marcellus]

Who owns the FNC?  Wiki says Erie County, but I don't remember hearing about any lease back to the Sabres.

I think we can wait for safer technology, before we start fracking in NYS.

[Eleven]

I would love to see some of the hydrofracking boom benefit Western New York.

[d4rksabre]

Eleven, on 08 February 2013 - 11:19 AM, said:

I would love to see some of the hydrofracking boom benefit Western New York.

For sure. But I want to see the results of the EPA's ongoing study first before Terry becomes the next Love Canal.

[sizzlemeister]

If he wants to make money, he'll drill another well, or frack.  It's all for the good of the team!

[weave]

He did say that if he wanted more money he'd drill another well, right?

weave, on 08 February 2013 - 11:49 AM, said:

He did say that if he wanted more money he'd drill another well, right?

Sizzle beat me by *that much*.

[apuszczalowski]

I have thought there were other motives for TP buying the team, and when it was said what business he was in, it never surprised me that he was running around doing all this "good will" to the Sabres and their fans (Locker room upgrade, arena upgrades, saying he would spare no expense to get this area a cup) all because he was just a rich hockey fan. It does seem fish and it wouldn't shock me one bit if he tried to use all this good will as a way to get in and use it to make business deals and allow hydrofracking (something that without the good will hes done so far most people would protest and be against). Everyone looks at what he is proposing to do with the property accross from the arena and talks only about the good it will bring to the community and how generous TP is for doing this, yet they forget about how that development will also bring him money and help his assets around here also.

He is a business man who didn't get rich by foolishly throwing his money around......

[IKnowPhysics]

Oh ###### guys, businessmen doing businessmen things.  Get the ###### pitchforks.

Also, re: ulterior motives; Kim's a Sabres fan, and if he bought the Flyers, she would have to take his balls.

[I am Marcellus]

I don't want to get all worked up about fracking, because I hate fracking.  Maybe in the Occupy thread.  But I was under the impression that Terry wasn't involved in the Natural Gas business anymore.  If he's a repentant fracker, fair enough, but if he's a compulsive fracker, that changes my opinion of him.

[Spndnchz]

PASabreFan, on 08 February 2013 - 10:33 AM, said:

Uhhhh, OK. Make me google the lyrics, thanks. You think I'm paranoid, I take it?

I think "lobbied" is the wrong word.  That usually involves money, which he hasn't given to anyone in NYS.

He might eventually.  It's usually necessary for these guys just to talk with you seriously or at least get to the front of the line.

[I am Marcellus]

All right, I'll take it easy, then.  

But I'm putting the moniker "Haliburton Sabres," in my back pocket, for a rainy day.  Right next to "Amherst Sabres."

[PASabreFan]

Yuri Olesha, on 08 February 2013 - 12:33 PM, said:

I don't want to get all worked up about fracking, because I hate fracking.  Maybe in the Occupy thread.  But I was under the impression that Terry wasn't involved in the Natural Gas business anymore.  If he's a repentant fracker, fair enough, but if he's a compulsive fracker, that changes my opinion of him.

Apparently he is still involved. I believe he said shortly after buying the team that he still has interests in the business. Hence the comment about drilling another well.

Spndnchz, on 08 February 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

I think "lobbied" is the wrong word.  That usually involves money, which he hasn't given to anyone in NYS.

He might eventually.  It's usually necessary for these guys just to talk with you seriously or at least get to the front of the line.

Some form of currency was used to get those officials and lawmakers to get their ###### to Terry's arena. When a popular multibillionaire says get over here, they usually listen.

[I am Marcellus]

Well, I guess, now that Terry and Kim live here in Buffalo, full time, someone should ask them how they would feel about fracking in their own back yard.  

I know that Shannahan didn't like it one bit.

[K-9]

Eleven, on 08 February 2013 - 11:19 AM, said:

I would love to see some of the hydrofracking boom benefit Western New York.

Don't hold your breath. Natural gas, like other fossil fuel commodities, is priced on a global basis. US oil production grew faster in 2012 than in any time in history and is set to surge even more, and we haven't seen any pricing benefit from that. And we aren't likely to, either.

GO SABRES!!!

[Taro T]

K-9, on 08 February 2013 - 02:44 PM, said:

Don't hold your breath. Natural gas, like other fossil fuel commodities, is priced on a global basis. US oil production grew faster in 2012 than in any time in history and is set to surge even more, and we haven't seen any pricing benefit from that. And we aren't likely to, either.

GO SABRES!!!

Actually NG prices have dropped substantially since the fracking boom began.  And unlike oil which doesn't have to be altered to be shipped overseas, NG has to be compressed to the point of liquidation to be efficiently transported globally.  The US currently has few LNG stations at ports, and most of those that we have were initially planned to receive LNG, not ship it out.

And I expect most of the benes that 11 mention are items such as jobs and tax revenue which are currently going to PA as NYS tries to figure out whether they want to allow very limited fracking or ban it outright.

[Eleven]

The Third Department (the mid-level appellate court for northern and much of central NY) upheld a decision allowing municipalities, as a zoning matter, to decide whether to allow hydrofracking.  No doubt, this will go to the Court of Appeals, but it is a victory for those of you opposed to fracking.

[Spndnchz]

Didn't I see something recently that the EPA has revised methane figures sharply lower?  Something about better gaskets or something.

[That Aud Smell]

Spndnchz, on 08 February 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

I think "lobbied" is the wrong word.  That usually involves money, which he hasn't given to anyone in NYS.

It does? I'm not so sure. I worked as a (low, low level) lobbyist once upon a moon. Our work was focused on putting together presentations and media that were designed to educate and influence legislators on behalf of the people who paid for our efforts. To me, lobbying, whether it's being done by an agency or a direct stakeholder, is about trying to persuade the legislators on how to view a certain issue. I realize there are some in Albany who've taken money or other valuable consideration in order to take a certain view on a certain issue, but ... um, that's illegal (and a lot of them have also been convicted and jailed for that sort of nonsense).

Even so, thanks for the great Kinks link.

Taro T, on 08 February 2013 - 04:41 PM, said:

Actually NG prices have dropped substantially since the fracking boom began.

Honest to God, when the price of NG started to fall through the floor, and, at about the same time, TB started chirping about the franchise's need to be more fiscally sound, I was sorta like

Edited by That Aud Smell, 02 May 2013 - 12:43 PM.

[Glass Case Of Emotion]

That Aud Smell, on 02 May 2013 - 12:40 PM, said:

[/size]

It does? I'm not so sure. I worked as a (low, low level) lobbyist once upon a moon. Our work was focused on putting together presentations and media that were designed to educate and influence legislators on behalf of the people who paid for our efforts. To me, lobbying, whether it's being done by an agency or a direct stakeholder, is about trying to persuade the legislators on how to view a certain issue. I realize there are some in Albany who've taken money or other valuable consideration in order to take a certain view on a certain issue, but ... um, that's illegal (and a lot of them have also been convicted and jailed for that sort of nonsense).

Even so, thanks for the great Kinks link.



Honest to God, when the price of NG started to fall through the floor, and, at about the same time, TB started chirping about the franchise's need to be more fiscally sound, I was sorta like

Money = campaign donartion = access

[Jsixspd]

bunomatic, on 08 February 2013 - 10:28 AM, said:

He's a fracking hockey fan. What more do you want ?

Notice that Chz's location is FRACKING Shanahan's house?   I think maybe she's already been bought and paid for.  

[Wacka]

Watch Frack Nation. Shows that the opponents to fracking are idiots and watermelons (green ob the outside, red on the inside)

[Eleven]

I always thought of them as Mallo Cups (chocolatey on the outside, marshmallowy on the inside).  But watermelon, I guess?  

Look, there are plenty of pros and plenty of cons, and I'm not sure it's divided along traditional political lines.

[X. Benedict]

Wacka, on 02 May 2013 - 08:47 PM, said:

Watch Frack Nation. Shows that the opponents to fracking are idiots and watermelons (green ob the outside, red on the inside)

That doesn't allow for much nuance.

I'm not sure if I'm opposed or not. But I do use water every day. Is there a vegetable or fruit to name that?

[Eleven]

X. Benedict, on 02 May 2013 - 08:52 PM, said:

That doesn't allow for much nuance.

I'm not sure if I'm opposed or not. But I do use water every day. Is there a vegetable or fruit to name that?

Vegetable:  idiot; fruit:  watermelon.  Did you not read his post?

[X. Benedict]

Eleven, on 02 May 2013 - 08:54 PM, said:

Vegetable:  idiot; fruit:  watermelon.  Did you not read his post?

Ewww.....those college board analogies always stumped me. I'll do better next time.

[Eleven]

X. Benedict, on 02 May 2013 - 08:57 PM, said:

Ewww.....those college board analogies always stumped me. I'll do better next time.

The Princeton Review can help.

[X. Benedict]

Eleven, on 02 May 2013 - 08:59 PM, said:

The Princeton Review can help.

That sounds too easy....I think I'll take a Stan Kaplan course. I want to ace it.

[Eleven]

True story:  Stan Kaplan flunked Sabres University.

[Andrew Amerk]

Truly yours. Your biggest fan. This is Stan.

[That Aud Smell]

Quote

Spndnchz, on 08 February 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

I think "lobbied" is the wrong word. That usually involves money, which he hasn't given to anyone in NYS. He might eventually.

That Aud Smell, on 02 May 2013 - 12:40 PM, said:

[/size] It does? I'm not so sure. ... To me, lobbying, whether it's being done by an agency or a direct stakeholder, is about trying to persuade the legislators on how to view a certain issue.

Glass Case Of Emotion, on 02 May 2013 - 06:06 PM, said:

Money = campaign donartion = access

Surely, monetary donations give rise to greater access for lobbying. I was just riffing on the idea that the money is the lobbying--that's actually called something else (bribery in most places). The cynics among us will say (perhaps rightly) that most politicians are effectively bought--just in indirect ways that aren't always easy to perceive or trace or pin on them. Even in that event, though, that ain't lobbying either--that's just covert bribery. Lobbying is the act and the art of persuasion.

[Glass Case Of Emotion]

That Aud Smell, on 03 May 2013 - 07:53 AM, said:

Surely, monetary donations give rise to greater access for lobbying. I was just riffing on the idea that the money is the lobbying--that's actually called something else (bribery in most places). The cynics among us will say (perhaps rightly) that most politicians are effectively bought--just in indirect ways that aren't always easy to perceive or trace or pin on them. Even in that event, though, that ain't lobbying either--that's just covert bribery. Lobbying is the act and the art of persuasion.

Yes, and you don't get the chance to persuade without access, and you don't get access without money for campaign contributions or SuperPAC donation.

[That Aud Smell]

Glass Case Of Emotion, on 03 May 2013 - 07:56 AM, said:

Yes, and you don't get the chance to persuade without access, and you don't get access without money for campaign contributions or SuperPAC donation.

Fair enough. My point being: money =/= lobbying.

I will also venture--in response to your "you don't get access without money"--that there are means of access that don't involve pay-to-play scenarios (I am excluding the occasional $50 or $100 check (or whatever) that a private citizen might write to a candidate they believe in) and there are politicians who can be persuaded in the absence of their campaign coffers being lined. Take my former neighbors (they moved to the country), who managed to push through a not insignificant piece of land use reform a few years back (like I said, they'd moved to the country). They had some help from a local university (not UB) and a not-for-profit, but, for the most part, it was their dogged efforts and *gasp* the proper functioning of a democratic republic that made it happen.

Now, if you and I were to try to mount support for a bill to effect a reform in the financial services sector? Yeah, that ain't happening.