155 replies to this topic

[PASabreFan]

At Saturday's presser to announce the extension of Darcy's contract, Terry said something to the effect that he and the GM "work well together." (On Day One, he said, "I can work with the guy," when asked about his decision to retain Regier.)

When Terry called into Kevin Sylvester's show this morning, he had quite a bit more to say about his relationship with Regier, and how hockey decisions are being made.

Terry said he talks to Regier more than anyone else in the organization, including Ted Black. He said the two of them are always "scheming" to find ways to make the Sabres better. Terry went on to say that no one in the organization has a "monopoly on hockey brains" and that the input of the coaches and even the players is being sought on various matters. "It's all good input," he said.

Terry referred to a "cross pollination" of ideas from various sources, and that philosophy seems to mesh with how Black has described the management structure of the Sabres: flat, not top to bottom.

It might be time to refresh our memories about that tweet of Jessie Pegula's about how much her dad liked Christian Ehrhoff's game in the 2011 playoffs.

Does this seem like a good way of trying to win a Stanley Cup? Have other teams in hockey, or in other professional sports, won with this kind of philosophy? It really is an honest, and not a loaded, question. Have at it.

[deluca67]

PASabreFan, on 23 January 2013 - 07:10 PM, said:

At Saturday's presser to announce the extension of Darcy's contract, Terry said something to the effect that he and the GM "work well together." (On Day One, he said, "I can work with the guy," when asked about his decision to retain Regier.)

When Terry called into Kevin Sylvester's show this morning, he had quite a bit more to say about his relationship with Regier, and how hockey decisions are being made.

Terry said he talks to Regier more than anyone else in the organization, including Ted Black. He said the two of them are always "scheming" to find ways to make the Sabres better. Terry went on to say that no one in the organization has a "monopoly on hockey brains" and that the input of the coaches and even the players is being sought on various matters. "It's all good input," he said.

Terry referred to a "cross pollination" of ideas from various sources, and that philosophy seems to mesh with how Black has described the management structure of the Sabres: flat, not top to bottom.

It might be time to refresh our memories about that tweet of Jessie Pegula's about how much her dad liked Christian Ehrhoff's game in the 2011 playoffs.

Does this seem like a good way of trying to win a Stanley Cup? Have other teams in hockey, or in other professional sports, won with this kind of philosophy? It really is an honest, and not a loaded, question. Have at it.

Pegula being anything other than a signature on a check when it comes to the on ice product is very dangerous. If he wants to build statues and redecorate the arena, that's great. Just stay away from the on ice decisions.

[SwampD]

I will wait until the end of this season to even begin to start forming an opinion on this.

[tom webster]

PASabreFan, on 23 January 2013 - 07:10 PM, said:

At Saturday's presser to announce the extension of Darcy's contract, Terry said something to the effect that he and the GM "work well together." (On Day One, he said, "I can work with the guy," when asked about his decision to retain Regier.)

When Terry called into Kevin Sylvester's show this morning, he had quite a bit more to say about his relationship with Regier, and how hockey decisions are being made.

Terry said he talks to Regier more than anyone else in the organization, including Ted Black. He said the two of them are always "scheming" to find ways to make the Sabres better. Terry went on to say that no one in the organization has a "monopoly on hockey brains" and that the input of the coaches and even the players is being sought on various matters. "It's all good input," he said.

Terry referred to a "cross pollination" of ideas from various sources, and that philosophy seems to mesh with how Black has described the management structure of the Sabres: flat, not top to bottom.

It might be time to refresh our memories about that tweet of Jessie Pegula's about how much her dad liked Christian Ehrhoff's game in the 2011 playoffs.

Does this seem like a good way of trying to win a Stanley Cup? Have other teams in hockey, or in other professional sports, won with this kind of philosophy? It really is an honest, and not a loaded, question. Have at it.

I think as I get older the one absolute truth I've learned is that there is no "right" way. Being successful is a combination of skill, timing, determination and a certain degree of luck. We can all rant and rave and provide our expert opinion of how it should be done or when it should be done and I think history has showed that every champion, every business icon and even those who mastered the art of parenthood all had their own unique path to success.

[shrader]

I'd take this from another angle and ask how many owners actually wash their hands completely of the operations. I'm guessing that number is near zero.

[drnkirishone]

IMO collecting ideas from all the sources you can is never a bad idea. That being said the most important person in this type of style is gonna be the person or the group of people that make the final call. Overall I think this style can and will work.

[wjag]

I geniunely believe that having an engaged owner is better than not.  I like to hear that the owner is in continuous review of the team and wants to improve the product.  As long as he isn't behind the bench I'm more than happy.

By chatting up the GM, at least the GM knows what deals he can chase.

[Kelly the Dog]

DeLuca67, on 23 January 2013 - 07:18 PM, said:

Pegula being anything other than a signature on a check when it comes to the on ice product is very dangerous. If he wants to build statues and redecorate the arena, that's great. Just stay away from the on ice decisions.

And yet you think that you could make better decisions on "on the ice decisions" than Darcy Regier. So why couldn't TP?

If he is just giving his opinions and getting information and everyone talking, with darcy making the final decisions I am okay with it. If he is Ralph Wilson ordering Enroth to start ahead of Miller in a playoff game, then you're right, keep the hell away.

Edited by Kelly the Dog, 23 January 2013 - 08:12 PM.

[wonderbread]

It worked for Jerruh Jones.

[Kelly the Dog]

Look at it another way. I truly believe that if I were the owner of the Bills or the Sabres, I wouldn't take too much time away from my GM as far as doing his job. But I would talk to him all the time about the team, what he thinks, who may be available, let him know my thoughts, and then tell him to make his own decision. I genuinely believe that and think it's not a bad thing, as long as the GM was confident in himself and his job security that he didn't make any part of his decision based on fear for his job/to make me happy/to be a sycophant.

[LabattBlue]

Chatting with the GM about the team is one thing.  If it turns out that he is dictating player moves, it's a whole different story.

[inkman]

wonderbread, on 23 January 2013 - 08:11 PM, said:

It worked for Jerruh Jones.

I'll take your post seriously as I have no indication that you didn't intend for it that way.   While not a unique situation, it was certainly fortuitous.  Jerry fired a living legend in Tom Landry.   Hired renegade program running Jimmy Johnson, drafted a franchise QB, fleeced Minny with the Hershel Walker trade to load up the roster with loads of superb athletes with character issues up and down the roster.  

So maybe Terry fires Lindy, drafts franchise center (maybe already did?), fleeces Anahiem with a Ryan Miller trade and brings in Sean Avery, Ryan O'Reily, Radulov and Ray Emery.

Edited by inkman, 23 January 2013 - 08:45 PM.

[bunomatic]

If anyones had a boss that hangs over your shoulder it can be unsettling. Especially if you are the type that is confident in your own ability and doesn't need your hand held. Being second guessed in that situation sucks. That being said I want Pegula to know exactly whats going on and to hold his people accountable for their decisions. It seems that may have been lacking around this organization for quite some time.

[BRAWNDO]

wjag, on 23 January 2013 - 07:35 PM, said:

I geniunely believe that having an engaged owner is better than not.  I like to hear that the owner is in continuous review of the team and wants to improve the product.  As long as he isn't behind the bench I'm more than happy.

By chatting up the GM, at least the GM knows what deals he can chase.

As long as Darcy can say to Pegula no, when he doesn't agree with something.

Edited by BRAWNDO, 23 January 2013 - 08:58 PM.

[Glass Case Of Emotion]

Jones, Steinbrenner, Cuban, Rooney...

[SDS]

inkman, on 23 January 2013 - 08:35 PM, said:

I'll take your post seriously as I have no indication that you didn't intend for it that way.   While not a unique situation, it was certainly fortuitous.  Jerry fired a living legend in Tom Landry.   Hired renegade program running Jimmy Johnson, drafted a franchise QB, ...

Tom Landry drafted Troy Aikman.

[IKnowPhysics]

I think what a few folks are worried about here is Pegula turning into some sort of Charles Wang- an owner that wants to play GM and have a strong hand in drafting and on-ice personnel decisions- to the point where the GM is handcuffed.  That's not a good situation.  But I think to say that Terry is currently walking down that road is reading too much into the situation.  If we take PA's paraphrasing at face value:

Quote

Terry said he talks to Regier more than anyone else in the organization, including Ted Black. He said the two of them are always "scheming" to find ways to make the Sabres better. Terry went on to say that no one in the organization has a "monopoly on hockey brains" and that the input of the coaches and even the players is being sought on various matters. "It's all good input," he said.

He could entirely be talking about off ice decisions here that happen to fall into Darcy's realm.  ###### like how Terry's pocketbook can make the gym better, or the players seemed antsy about management after the lockout so let's have more team dinners at our house, or we don't have any scouts in Botswana- should we beef that effort up a little.  Little extras to big ideas that maybe Darcy hasn't thought of or didn't think were feasible with previous ownership.

I would hope that any player personnel conversations go like this:
"Darcy, we're 15th in powerplay scoring, what's up?"
"Well Terry, I've been thinking about that. We've had some injuries to key guys.  Here's a few ideas I think would work to fix that and this one is the best option.  Lindy agrees.  It'll take $10M over the next two years."
"I trust you to make the right decision.  Do it."

I haven't seen any evidence that those conversations don't go exactly like that.  Outside of that realm, I encourage Terry to get actively involved just about as much as possible and help the hockey folks as much as possible to imrpove the organization from bottom to top.

Edited by IKnowPhysics, 23 January 2013 - 10:48 PM.

[K-9]

SDS, on 23 January 2013 - 09:37 PM, said:

Tom Landry drafted Troy Aikman.

Landry was let go a couple months before the 1989 draft. By then, the team had been sold to Jerrah, Jimmy was hired, and they made Aikman their first pick ever.

It's a good bet that Landry and Schramm would have taken Aikman anyway, though.

GO SABRES!!!

[SDS]

K-9, on 23 January 2013 - 09:48 PM, said:

Landry was let go a couple months before the 1989 draft. By then, the team had been sold to Jerrah, Jimmy was hired, and they made Aikman their first pick ever.

It's a good bet that Landry and Schramm would have taken Aikman anyway, though.

GO SABRES!!!

I must have been thinking of Irvin the year before. I stand corrected - thank you.

[Vanek-Man]

PASabreFan, on 23 January 2013 - 07:10 PM, said:

At Saturday's presser to announce the extension of Darcy's contract, Terry said something to the effect that he and the GM "work well together." (On Day One, he said, "I can work with the guy," when asked about his decision to retain Regier.)

When Terry called into Kevin Sylvester's show this morning, he had quite a bit more to say about his relationship with Regier, and how hockey decisions are being made.

Terry said he talks to Regier more than anyone else in the organization, including Ted Black. He said the two of them are always "scheming" to find ways to make the Sabres better. Terry went on to say that no one in the organization has a "monopoly on hockey brains" and that the input of the coaches and even the players is being sought on various matters. "It's all good input," he said.

Terry referred to a "cross pollination" of ideas from various sources, and that philosophy seems to mesh with how Black has described the management structure of the Sabres: flat, not top to bottom.

It might be time to refresh our memories about that tweet of Jessie Pegula's about how much her dad liked Christian Ehrhoff's game in the 2011 playoffs.

Does this seem like a good way of trying to win a Stanley Cup? Have other teams in hockey, or in other professional sports, won with this kind of philosophy? It really is an honest, and not a loaded, question. Have at it.

You're onto something. Watch at the 2:47 mark.

The daughters make it obvious that Terry had a thing for Ehrhoff well before they were able to sit down as a front office and explore all options. While, i am not saying Ehrhoff wasn't a good addition, because he was, but a proper hockey team should be build by hockey people. This makes it clear, he didn't care at ALL who was on board to signing Ehrhoff, he was going to attempt to.

[Andrew Amerk]

Terry has been doing a good job.

Regier has been doing a good job.

Nothing to worry about, at this point.

[PASabreFan]

Vanek-Man, on 23 January 2013 - 11:21 PM, said:

You're onto something. Watch at the 2:47 mark.

The daughters make it obvious that Terry had a thing for Ehrhoff well before they were able to sit down as a front office and explore all options. While, i am not saying Ehrhoff wasn't a good addition, because he was, but a proper hockey team should be build by hockey people. This makes it clear, he didn't care at ALL who was on board to signing Ehrhoff, he was going to attempt to.

There ya go. Thanks for posting that. That's the concern in a nutshell.

[neverenough]

drnkirishone, on 23 January 2013 - 07:30 PM, said:

IMO collecting ideas from all the sources you can is never a bad idea. That being said the most important person in this type of style is gonna be the person or the group of people that make the final call. Overall I think this style can and will work.

Has anyone ever told you that you kinda look like Otter?

[ThirtyEight]

Vanek-Man, on 23 January 2013 - 11:21 PM, said:

You're onto something. Watch at the 2:47 mark.

The daughters make it obvious that Terry had a thing for Ehrhoff well before they were able to sit down as a front office and explore all options. While, i am not saying Ehrhoff wasn't a good addition, because he was, but a proper hockey team should be build by hockey people. This makes it clear, he didn't care at ALL who was on board to signing Ehrhoff, he was going to attempt to.

Darcy can agree with him. Hell, I agree with TP. I really like Erhoff. The issue comes down to can Darcy say no to TP's demands, if he can, then TP is just another set of eyes. The guy clearly loves hockey, so I trust his ability to bring Darcy's attention to a situation. Saying we really need to get Erhoff, and then we get him doesn't mean Darcy had no say in the matter

That video also made me realise, the last 4 Stanley cup champions have opened their season in europe

Edited by ThirtyEight, 24 January 2013 - 05:51 AM.

[deluca67]

Kelly the Dog, on 23 January 2013 - 08:09 PM, said:

And yet you think that you could make better decisions on "on the ice decisions" than Darcy Regier. So why couldn't TP?

If he is just giving his opinions and getting information and everyone talking, with darcy making the final decisions I am okay with it. If he is Ralph Wilson ordering Enroth to start ahead of Miller in a playoff game, then you're right, keep the hell away.

Interesting point considering the only difference between myself, any other poster on this board and Terry Pegula when it comes to hockey is the size of Pegula's check book. When it comes to credibility of a hockey opinion, Pegula's is no more credible then any on this board.

IMO, Ralph Wilson plays a big role in formulating fans opinions regarding ownership. For 50 years Ralph Wilson has been the predominate sports owner here in Buffalo. He is very hands on to the point of being meddlesome. His only success came when he hired Bill Polian who had a strong personality which kept Ralph in check. Regier is not as strong a personality as Polian, Regier has been seen as pretty much a "Yes" man for most of his tenure.

Any concern for things coming down to a push & shove on ice decision between Regier and Pegula with Regier being willing to shove back is justified. Pegula's opinions need to be placated to keep him happy and to make him think he is involved, that's fine. Regier should not be taking them seriously.

[Doohickie]

tom webster, on 23 January 2013 - 07:20 PM, said:

We can all rant and rave and provide our expert opinion of how it should be done

...and we do.  

[Sabres Fan In NS]

Vanek-Man, on 23 January 2013 - 11:21 PM, said:

You're onto something. Watch at the 2:47 mark.

The daughters make it obvious that Terry had a thing for Ehrhoff well before they were able to sit down as a front office and explore all options. While, i am not saying Ehrhoff wasn't a good addition, because he was, but a proper hockey team should be build by hockey people. This makes it clear, he didn't care at ALL who was on board to signing Ehrhoff, he was going to attempt to.

PASabreFan, on 24 January 2013 - 04:32 AM, said:

There ya go. Thanks for posting that. That's the concern in a nutshell.

Holy jumping to conclusions Batman!

The kids talking about their father, the team owner, wanting a particular player on his team does not mean that the GM, coach, scouts, president ... where not in on the discussion.

PA, I understand your concern and it is valid, but we have no way to know at this point and may never know exactly what goes on behind those closed doors.

Edited by Sabres Fan In NS, 24 January 2013 - 10:25 AM.

[MattPie]

ThirtyEight, on 24 January 2013 - 05:31 AM, said:

That video also made me realise, the last 4 Stanley cup champions have opened their season in europe

OT, but someone mentioned the last 3 teams to play in the Philly Eagles home opener have gone on to win the Superbowl (Saints, Giants, Packers). This year? The Ravens were Philly's home opener. Interesting...

[LTS]

Insanity.. we just love to find something to whine about.

If he is talking to Darcy then perhaps he's bringing up ideas that Darcy is NOT considering because of his past "hand-cuffs" and saying you know.. we might be able to do this financially if you think it works from a team perspective.

All we KNOW is that they talk a lot.  I talk to my employees a lot as well.  I provide suggestions, we talk about them, and some get canned and some don't.  It's generally better than unilaterally commanding how something should be done.

[ThirtyEight]

LTS, on 24 January 2013 - 02:13 PM, said:

Insanity.. we just love to find something to whine about.

If he is talking to Darcy then perhaps he's bringing up ideas that Darcy is NOT considering because of his past "hand-cuffs" and saying you know.. we might be able to do this financially if you think it works from a team perspective.

All we KNOW is that they talk a lot.  I talk to my employees a lot as well.  I provide suggestions, we talk about them, and some get canned and some don't.  It's generally better than unilaterally commanding how something should be done.

When i first read this, I thought you meant that if the employees didn't agree with you there would be a chance they would get fired

[Grumpy]

Hire what you think are the best in a business. Delegate and give them the reins for a few years and if they don't acheive the desired results can their a** and move on to the next best person.  Nice that TB came from a winner in Pitt, but without the lottery and number 1 pick in a years time, when two real studs were availabe, would they have won? Would Jerry Jones have won without being the worst team in football and the Minnesota GM being an idiot? Who knows?  Pegula is a little too much a fan for me, but I think he knows he needs to hire people who know more about the sport than he does.  I'm not sure if he's done that, but time will tell and he has the deep pockets to get it right.--------I hope!

[etiennep99]

Harold Ballard.  He single-handedly destroyed the Toronto Maple Leafs.  


"Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety."

Pegula being interested is good. Pegula being too hands-on is bad, IMHO.

[blugold43]

wonderbread, on 23 January 2013 - 08:11 PM, said:

It worked for Jerruh Jones.

hershel walker trade is what worked for him.

[Robviously]

Where does the rush to give Myers a crazy contract fit into this?  That's looking like a horrible move at this point.

[Vanek-Man]

Robviously, on 24 January 2013 - 10:36 PM, said:

Where does the rush to give Myers a crazy contract fit into this?  That's looking like a horrible move at this point.

Excellent point. Makes you wonder...

[shrader]

Robviously, on 24 January 2013 - 10:36 PM, said:

Where does the rush to give Myers a crazy contract fit into this?  That's looking like a horrible move at this point.

That contract won't be an issue for anyone though.  It is very manageable now that Buffalo has already paid that bonus.  If they ever want to move him, it will be no trouble.  Pegula isn't going to miss the money.

[PASabreFan]

Forget what he said for a minute. Why is he even saying it? Why is he on the radio giving his opinion on the state of the team, how Miller is playing and how Grigorenko looks — and his roster status? Why? It can really complicate things if the owner is saying one thing about a player and the coach and GM are saying/thinking something else. It's really the coach's prerogative to criticize a player or "pump his tires" as Brian Duff referred to it last night. It's the GM's prerogative to talk about player movement and contract statuses. Terry steps on a lot of toes.

Man, if I had hit the shale jackpot and bought the Sabres, they'd have to bring in police sketch artists and talk to witnesses to form a picture of what I look like. Voice actors would have to be hired to record renditions of my voice, based on the three people I had talked to. I'd come into games wearing a Jackie Onassis scarf and dressed in drag. I'd scour the world, find the best hockey mind, let him or her tell me what he or she needs, and go away. Would I be on the ice with my kids before a game? No way.

Honestly, I don't know what Terry's trying to do here. There's an egomania at play that's a little disconcerting. It shouldn't surprise given what we learned about Terry's role in Penn State football. He wants to be an inside participant at that level, and this just seems like an extension of it on a professional level.

I feel really bad for Darcy, have for a while actually. Terry said he couldn't find anyone in the game to say a bad word about the guy, raved about the job he has done, yet feels there has to be a telephone tree in the organization so the assistant to the assistant regional manager can tell him how to do his job.

Edited by PASabreFan, 25 January 2013 - 09:16 AM.

[IKnowPhysics]

That's some weird level of paranoia, and the vexing part is that the believer will never find enough evidence to disprove it to themselves.

SwampD, on 25 January 2013 - 01:44 AM, said:

You people are all nuts.

[That Aud Smell]

PASabreFan, on 25 January 2013 - 09:15 AM, said:

There's an egomania at play that's a little disconcerting. It shouldn't surprise given what we learned about Terry's role in Penn State football that the guy grew an energy company into a multi-billion dollar asset.

this is a great thread, PA, and i thank you for it.

it surprises me not at all that pegula has a very healthy (perhaps overly large) ego and a resulting desire to be involved, on some level, in the team's efforts to build a winner. in a more perfect world, a team in a niche sport located in a sleepy, shrinking market would've attracted a billionaire fan-owner who wanted nothing more than to hire the very best people and then stay out of everyone's way. that's not what happened.  even so, we have one of the best ownership situations in the league. i'll take it.

Edited by That Aud Smell, 25 January 2013 - 01:17 PM.

[Robviously]

shrader, on 25 January 2013 - 08:44 AM, said:

That contract won't be an issue for anyone though.  It is very manageable now that Buffalo has already paid that bonus.  If they ever want to move him, it will be no trouble.  Pegula isn't going to miss the money.

At some point, yes, Pegula WILL miss the money though.  I think everyone is overestimating Pegula's ability to lose money forever.  More contracts like Leino's or (worst case scenario) Myers' will hurt this franchise.  Even if we can buy guys out to manage the salary cap, Pegula can't hemorrhage money forever.  Nor do I want him to.  If both he and the franchise are in good shape financially, they won't have to worry when the opportunity arrives to overspend for a guy who could put us over the top.