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#1 hockeyhound

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:15 PM

What do you think of the new Sabres tough guys?

Do you think fighting in the NHL is different now compared to 10-15 years ago?

I would think it would be very difficult for John Scott to really be prepared to fight a guy like Colton Orr when he hasn't had a chance to get into the game himself.


I know it is not fair to compare Scott to Ray; however, Razor seemed to take fighting very personal, and when he fought it wasn't I throw one, you throw one, will make it look good for the fans, and will go joke about it after the game; If that was the case then Razor really sold it.

When men fought years ago, they had an edge; it was like you just assaulted their first born.

Maybe I'm trying to say is that there were more incedents of raw aggression rather than "hey, would like to fight tonight"- "I don't know, I had a few many cheese burgers before the game maybe next time."

During the Orr vs Scott fight, I thought Orr had the edge in that he was fighting for his life and career rather than its time to put on a show. If I knew I just came off of a major concussion, and the next one could end my career, I would be highly motivated to win the fight rather than trying not to loss.

Orr unleashed a heck of an uppercut which I'm sure every eastern conference fighter is going to take note of. I think John Scott is already vulnerable to the upper cut just because of his hieght; I just hope he dosn't have a glass jaw.

Maybe losing his first fight is not such a bad thing; if players think that John Scott can be had, then he just might get a few more guys to fight him which ultmately helps him keep his job.

Finally, a couple of weeks ago in an interview, Scott revealed his worst fear would be to lose his first fight as a Sabre, and he did; I just hope he stops perseverating, and just unleashes the some raw aggression on the likes of Lucic. :censored:

Personally, I would not want to be the next guy to fight Scott; I am sure he will be prepared.

Has anyone heard whether or not John Scott has been given a nickname as a Buffalo Sabre.

Edited by hockeyhound, 22 January 2013 - 04:31 PM.


#2 weave

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:24 PM

Orr.  It was Colton Orr, not Mike Rupp.

#3 inkman

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:31 PM

I can't imagine a scenario where Lucic fights Scott.   Sean Throton maybe and I'll take that because he's way better of a hockey player than John Scott.

#4 Glass Case Of Emotion

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:44 PM

View Postinkman, on 22 January 2013 - 12:31 PM, said:

I can't imagine a scenario where Lucic fights Scott.   Sean Throton maybe and I'll take that because he's way better of a hockey player than John Scott.

I don't want him to fight Lucic, I want him to run him through the boards.

#5 Neuvirths Glove

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 01:49 PM

He'll have to catch him first.

#6 Who Else?

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 02:18 PM

Gerbe can give more with cheap shots and gritty play than Scott floating around looking out of place for 2 to 4 minutes a game.  We don't need fighters fighting fighters.  The most effective " tough guys" seem to be also skill guys like Lucic, Hartnell, and even the smaller players like Marchand in Boston.

#7 gohansrage

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 02:26 PM

View PostWho Else?, on 22 January 2013 - 02:18 PM, said:

Gerbe can give more with cheap shots and gritty play than Scott floating around looking out of place for 2 to 4 minutes a game.  We don't need fighters fighting fighters.  The most effective " tough guys" seem to be also skill guys like Lucic, Hartnell, and even the smaller players like Marchand in Boston.

QFT.

On that note, I think the idea that you have to "win" the fight is antiquated.  You just need to make guys know they need to answer for dirty shots.  Stafford going up against Hartnell was proof of that.  It meant so much to the team that it was Stafford that went after Hartnell (even though he lost).

#8 Neuvirths Glove

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 02:28 PM

Yeah, it's like Stafford sent a Hallmark card saying Thinking of you after your cheap shot.

#9 nucci

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 02:29 PM

View PostWho Else?, on 22 January 2013 - 02:18 PM, said:

Gerbe can give more with cheap shots and gritty play than Scott floating around looking out of place for 2 to 4 minutes a game.  We don't need fighters fighting fighters.  The most effective " tough guys" seem to be also skill guys like Lucic, Hartnell, and even the smaller players like Marchand in Boston.
Exactly. That's why Dudley and Gare were two of my favorite Sabres. 40-50 goals and toughest players on the ice.

#10 shrader

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 03:27 PM

View PostWho Else?, on 22 January 2013 - 02:18 PM, said:

Gerbe can give more with cheap shots and gritty play than Scott floating around looking out of place for 2 to 4 minutes a game.  We don't need fighters fighting fighters.  The most effective " tough guys" seem to be also skill guys like Lucic, Hartnell, and even the smaller players like Marchand in Boston.

Let's not forget that Boston also has that no talent stiff Thornton out there, which allows Lucic and Marchand to do what they do.

#11 inkman

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 03:33 PM

View Postshrader, on 22 January 2013 - 03:27 PM, said:

Let's not forget that Boston also has that no talent stiff Thornton out there, which allows Lucic and Marchand to do what they do.
In all fairness Thorton is closer to Cody McCormick than John Scott.

#12 hockeyhound

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 04:10 PM

View Postweave, on 22 January 2013 - 12:24 PM, said:

Orr.  It was Colton Orr, not Mike Rupp.

Thanks for the correction.

#13 hockeyhound

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 04:29 PM

View PostLastPommerFan, on 22 January 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:

I don't want him to fight Lucic, I want him to run him through the boards.

Would you agree that we have the players to run him: however, is it not an exclamation point to hammer a guy in a fight, especially at home. Deterrent.

View PostDoohickie, on 22 January 2013 - 01:49 PM, said:

He'll have to catch him first.

Point well taken; what did you think of Scott tracking down a player, and causing the turn over of the puck?


View Postgohansrage, on 22 January 2013 - 02:26 PM, said:

QFT.

On that note, I think the idea that you have to "win" the fight is antiquated.  You just need to make guys know they need to answer for dirty shots.  Stafford going up against Hartnell was proof of that.  It meant so much to the team that it was Stafford that went after Hartnell (even though he lost).

Do you really want guys like Stafford facing Thorton night after night; isn't that what we had last year?

I liked the fact that Kaleta could hammer Orr with a body check, and did not have to fight him afterwards.

View Postinkman, on 22 January 2013 - 03:33 PM, said:

In all fairness Thorton is closer to Cody McCormick than John Scott.

Cody McCormick really held his own against Scott awhile back; it was a pretty impressive bout on You Tube.

View PostWho Else?, on 22 January 2013 - 02:18 PM, said:

Gerbe can give more with cheap shots and gritty play than Scott floating around looking out of place for 2 to 4 minutes a game.  We don't need fighters fighting fighters.  The most effective " tough guys" seem to be also skill guys like Lucic, Hartnell, and even the smaller players like Marchand in Boston.

I will agree that a tough guy with skill is preferable but, how many of them are out there?

If you cannot aquire the skilled tough guy then what other option is there?

Hartnell, Lucic, etc are going to keep coming until they are deterred, and I personally do not want to see Stafford out there ruining his hands on Hartnells helmet.

I want him scoring goals.

Edited by hockeyhound, 22 January 2013 - 04:44 PM.


#14 Meathead

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 07:59 PM

when scott runs lucic into the stanchion and cracks two of his vertebrate i want shanahan to say 'i know scott didnt intend to injure him because i asked him'

#15 gohansrage

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 10:41 PM

View Posthockeyhound, on 22 January 2013 - 04:29 PM, said:


Do you really want guys like Stafford facing Thorton night after night; isn't that what we had last year?

We didn't have that last year--we had a bunch of players who didn't want to ruin their manicures.

I see your overall point, and I'm not saying Scott should be cut.  I just think defending your team is more important than winning the fight.  

Besides, the ultimate win is winning on the scoreboard.

#16 Spndnchz

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 11:11 PM

View PostMeathead, on 22 January 2013 - 07:59 PM, said:

when scott runs lucic into the stanchion and cracks two of his vertebrate i want shanahan to say 'i know scott didnt intend to injure him because i asked him'

I don't see Scott as this 'fast enough to catch someone' player. That's up to Kaleta and Ott.

#17 Heimdall

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 09:29 AM

https://www.youtube....h?v=tnjFmQVys4M

the more i look at it, the less i see an uppercut by orr, but more scott falling down after he gives out a punch to orr.
maybe i need another angle.

Edited by Heimdall, 23 January 2013 - 09:30 AM.


#18 Spndnchz

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 09:32 AM

View PostHeimdall, on 23 January 2013 - 09:29 AM, said:

https://www.youtube....h?v=tnjFmQVys4M

the more i look at it, the less i see an uppercut by orr, but more scott falling down after he gives out a punch to orr.
maybe i need another angle.

Orr got a kidney punch in at the end. That's what took Scott down.

#19 hockeyhound

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 03:25 PM

View Postgohansrage, on 22 January 2013 - 10:41 PM, said:

We didn't have that last year--we had a bunch of players who didn't want to ruin their manicures.

I see your overall point, and I'm not saying Scott should be cut.  I just think defending your team is more important than winning the fight.  

Besides, the ultimate win is winning on the scoreboard.


Would you agree that getting your a** kicked in front of 16,000 people could cause an advantageous or disadvantageous momentum swing. I will agree that players should not just indiscriminately go out and fight; a well timed fight can be very effective, and if one dominates that fight it adds some confidence to your bench; in addition, when the other team sees that their player could not match up, wow extrapulate out a bit.

Would you agree that intimidation is a big factor in the game of hockey, and that players that are intimidated find themselves looking over their shoulder which takes awy from the ability to consentrate on their overall game?

I believe win or lose people will respect the fact that Scott makes the point that we are here to compete and we are not afraid to get our hands dirty.

No disrespect but In my opinion, I there are alot of battles inside the game of hockey that need to be won i.e. winning board battles, winning stick battles, winning physical battles, and winning the high risk high reward one on one fight; all together, if done consistantly and effectivly, many times equal a win on the score board.

Yes defending your teamates is important; however, a couple of pushes and a few hard checks does not always deter men like Hartnell, lucic, Orr, etc, and if you don't have the men needed to push back, then the bullies will have no problem running your goalie etc. Sometime the only thing that a bully respects is a good old fashion butt whoppin.


View PostSpndnchz, on 22 January 2013 - 11:11 PM, said:

I don't see Scott as this 'fast enough to catch someone' player. That's up to Kaleta and Ott.

In my opinion Scott doesn't have to catch the player; for example, if Keleta hammers Lucic with a big hit, he skates away, and if Lucic comes after Keleta, Scott steps in. Can you see how that can really disrupt the other team? Lucic is forced to pick on someone his own size.

View PostSpndnchz, on 23 January 2013 - 09:32 AM, said:

Orr got a kidney punch in at the end. That's what took Scott down.

If you go on Hockey Fights. Com, its agreed upon that the upper cut was a body shot which makes sense; I did not believe Scott was hit in the jaw; however, we have not seen enough of Scott to determine wether our not he can take a big bunch from a big man i.e. Chara.

Edited by hockeyhound, 23 January 2013 - 04:46 PM.


#20 djp14150

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 04:05 PM

http://blogs.thescor...-to-be-amazing/


Look at the pic


#21 Assquatch

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 04:14 PM

Man that's got to get old for Gerbe

#22 Sabres Fan In NS

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 04:25 PM

View Postdjp14150, on 23 January 2013 - 04:05 PM, said:


Looks like Gerbe's wearing tights ... I likey.

#23 hockeyhound

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 04:56 PM

View Postdjp14150, on 23 January 2013 - 04:05 PM, said:


Excellent picture; it truely demonstrates the physical stature of John Scott, and as some continue to say, the diminutive Nathan Gerbe.

I think Gerbe is past all that; however, I have to believe that Gerbe has to have some confidence knowing John Scott has his back.

Furthermore, maybe the Flyers and every other club that gets a kicks out of running Gerbe, will think twice before doing so.

Big John stud; have at it, I hope Kevin Westgarth is ready tomorrow.

Edited by hockeyhound, 23 January 2013 - 04:57 PM.


#24 Spndnchz

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 04:59 PM

Nestle thighs.  Hmmmm.

#25 hockeyhound

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 05:23 PM

View PostSpndnchz, on 23 January 2013 - 04:59 PM, said:

Nestle thighs.  Hmmmm.

Don't be the show, steal the show.

Winning everything takes a single-minded, obsessive devotion.

Great Quips Spndchz.

I don't know if anyone has ever said this but, I would like to add, " if your not in it to win it, then why are you in it at all?"

Edited by hockeyhound, 23 January 2013 - 05:23 PM.


#26 EZBills7

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 05:31 PM

It's great having players stick up for Miller when opposing players make contact with him, which it looks like the Sabres will do a lot better job of this year . . . but at some point don't you have to at least consider fighting fire with fire by making contact with the opposing goalie?

I'm not talking about "Lucicing" a goalie or trying to cause an injury, but it seems to me that for every one time a Sabre bumps a goalie there are 3 or 4 times that an opposing player bumps Miller/Enroth. It's kind of like throwing at the opposing team's batters in baseball if your team's batters are getting hit with pitches - the other team's desire to not have their batters thrown at will in turn decrease the times that your own team's batters are thrown at.

#27 Neuvirths Glove

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 05:45 PM

View PostEZBills7, on 23 January 2013 - 05:31 PM, said:

It's great having players stick up for Miller when opposing players make contact with him, which it looks like the Sabres will do a lot better job of this year . . . but at some point don't you have to at least consider fighting fire with fire by making contact with the opposing goalie?

Have Scott play the wing during the PP.  Let him pretend to be Thomas Holmstrom in front of the net.  Oh yeah.

Edited by Doohickie, 23 January 2013 - 05:46 PM.


#28 shrader

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 07:28 PM

I love how they still insist on listing gerbe at 5"5

#29 hockeyhound

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 10:57 PM

View PostEZBills7, on 23 January 2013 - 05:31 PM, said:

It's great having players stick up for Miller when opposing players make contact with him, which it looks like the Sabres will do a lot better job of this year . . . but at some point don't you have to at least consider fighting fire with fire by making contact with the opposing goalie?

I'm not talking about "Lucicing" a goalie or trying to cause an injury, but it seems to me that for every one time a Sabre bumps a goalie there are 3 or 4 times that an opposing player bumps Miller/Enroth. It's kind of like throwing at the opposing team's batters in baseball if your team's batters are getting hit with pitches - the other team's desire to not have their batters thrown at will in turn decrease the times that your own team's batters are thrown at.

I would have to agree that the whole goalie interference thing has not been clearly defined; this year I have seen everything from goalies having to make some difficult saves with oppenents all over them, and on the other hand you see a referee call a no goal when a player barely touches Miller. I am not sure where the league is going with the issue; however, once again team toughness is going to be the answer until the NHL referee's figure it out.

I liked what Kaleta did to Phil Kessel after Kessel tried the oh I didn't see you in the heat of the momement play.

I think what your asking for is a deterent; I think the Sabres have handful of deterent to throw around this year which should allow Miller to consentrate on making saves instead of having to wonder who is going to run him next.

View PostDoohickie, on 23 January 2013 - 05:45 PM, said:

Have Scott play the wing during the PP.  Let him pretend to be Thomas Holmstrom in front of the net.  Oh yeah.

I don't think you will ever see that but, you are on to something.

When Scott was in Chicago, they would post John Scott up in front of the net whenever they could; I can only imagine how difficult it was for the opposing defensemen to get position on Scott, or better yet, try to clear him out on a rebound scrum.

View Postshrader, on 23 January 2013 - 07:28 PM, said:

I love how they still insist on listing gerbe at 5"5

Where did you see that advertised?

#30 inkman

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 11:17 PM

View Posthockeyhound, on 23 January 2013 - 10:57 PM, said:

Where did you see that advertised?

http://en.m.wikipedi...ki/Nathan_Gerbe
http://sabres.nhl.co....htm?id=8471804
http://espn.go.com/n...38/nathan-gerbe
http://www.hockeydb....y.php?pid=69846
http://www.hockey-re...ml?mobile=false
http://sports.yahoo....hl/players/4436




#31 Moulson26

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 11:31 PM

Look what Scott's sparing partner from Monday did tonight...



#32 bunomatic

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 01:06 AM

View PostVanek-Man, on 23 January 2013 - 11:31 PM, said:

Look what Scott's sparing partner from Monday did tonight...



  By the end of that fight those guys arms were rubber. Good scrap.

#33 blugold43

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 07:36 AM

View PostVanek-Man, on 23 January 2013 - 11:31 PM, said:

Look what Scott's sparing partner from Monday did tonight...


so stupid.  god does hockey not need this.

#34 gohansrage

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 09:09 AM

View Posthockeyhound, on 23 January 2013 - 03:25 PM, said:

Would you agree that getting your a** kicked in front of 16,000 people could cause an advantageous or disadvantageous momentum swing. I will agree that players should not just indiscriminately go out and fight; a well timed fight can be very effective, and if one dominates that fight it adds some confidence to your bench; in addition, when the other team sees that their player could not match up, wow extrapulate out a bit.

Would you agree that intimidation is a big factor in the game of hockey, and that players that are intimidated find themselves looking over their shoulder which takes awy from the ability to consentrate on their overall game?

I believe win or lose people will respect the fact that Scott makes the point that we are here to compete and we are not afraid to get our hands dirty.

No disrespect but In my opinion, I there are alot of battles inside the game of hockey that need to be won i.e. winning board battles, winning stick battles, winning physical battles, and winning the high risk high reward one on one fight; all together, if done consistantly and effectivly, many times equal a win on the score board.

Yes defending your teamates is important; however, a couple of pushes and a few hard checks does not always deter men like Hartnell, lucic, Orr, etc, and if you don't have the men needed to push back, then the bullies will have no problem running your goalie etc. Sometime the only thing that a bully respects is a good old fashion butt whoppin.

I don't think we really disagree here.  I'm not saying there is no value in winning a fight, I'm saying being willing to fight is more important than winning.

Additionally, I don't think having Scott will guys like Lucic/Marchand/Tootoo/Neil.  Let's say Lucic runs Miller again.  Scott then tries to fight Lucic (who he would pummell) but there is no way Lucic engages him--Thornton simply steps in for Lucic.  Again, I think Scott probably beats Thornton up.  Because they know that Thornton will just get back in the ring with Scott if he tries anything, I don't think the Bruins are scared of Scott.  And even if the bully had to fight Scott, I don't think that prevents cheap shots and dirty hits.  Having to answer to McCarty didn't stop Claude Lemieux.

#35 Sabres Fan In NS

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 09:24 AM

View PostVanek-Man, on 23 January 2013 - 11:31 PM, said:

Look what Scott's sparing partner from Monday did tonight...



*his head snapped back like a pez dispenser* ... :w00t:

#36 hockeyhound

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 06:58 PM

View Postinkman, on 23 January 2013 - 11:17 PM, said:


What is Gerbe true height?

View Postblugold43, on 24 January 2013 - 07:36 AM, said:

so stupid.  god does hockey not need this.

What is so stupid about fighting in Hockey?

View Postgohansrage, on 24 January 2013 - 09:09 AM, said:

I don't think we really disagree here.  I'm not saying there is no value in winning a fight, I'm saying being willing to fight is more important than winning.

I think you are right willing to fight is more important; however, Gerbe is willing but is he going to effective?

Additionally, I don't think having Scott will guys like Lucic/Marchand/Tootoo/Neil.  Let's say Lucic runs Miller again.  Scott then tries to fight Lucic (who he would pummell) but there is no way Lucic engages him--Thornton simply steps in for Lucic.  Again, I think Scott probably beats Thornton up.  Because they know that Thornton will just get back in the ring with Scott if he tries anything, I don't think the Bruins are scared of Scott.  And even if the bully had to fight Scott, I don't think that prevents cheap shots and dirty hits.  Having to answer to McCarty didn't stop Claude Lemieux.

I am not sure Lucic wouldn't fight Scott; did Lucic agree to fight Gaustad because he felt he wasn't threat?

Lucic like Hartnell will keep cheap shotting guys until someone stands up to him; when Kaleta came into the league with his bombshell hits, he drew alot of critizism when he shied away from a few fight opportunities. Sooner or later, I think it is inevitable that Scott and Lucic tangle due to the way Lucic plays.

I agree with you, just because we have John Scott it doen't mean that it will deter teams from running Miller, it did not stop Phil Kessel.

Claude was the exception but if you remember there was a hold over to the next season and Cluade was called into account for his deeds.

In my opinion legitamate fights which are meant to police some of the none calls are necessary, and you really do need the guys that are willing and able to get the job finished.

Sometime a 2:00 minute boarding penalty is not enough.

View PostVanek-Man, on 23 January 2013 - 11:31 PM, said:

Look what Scott's sparing partner from Monday did tonight...



Orr is a tough customer, and it was good to see that it didn't appear to be a staged fight.

It will be interesting to see if Hurricanes Kevin Westgarth takes on John Scott tonight; Carolina is desperate for a win, and the fact that Staal was pissed enough to drop the gloves the other night is a good indicator that tonights game is going to be physical.

Let's Go Buffalo!!!!

Edited by hockeyhound, 24 January 2013 - 07:03 PM.


#37 gohansrage

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 07:01 PM

View Posthockeyhound, on 24 January 2013 - 06:58 PM, said:

What is Gerbe true height?



What is so stupid about fighting in Hockey?



I am not sure Lucic wouldn't fight Scott; did Lucic agree to fight Gaustad because he felt he wasn't threat?


I don't think he thought Gaustad wasn't a threat, but Goose was closer to his weight class than Scott is.  I honestly think Lucic would punk down from Scott and Thornton would step in.  I really do.

My argument overall is that guys like Scott end up fighting guys like Orr and Thorton.  And while entertaining (and that Orr/ Engelland fight is AMAZING), I don't know that it has the effect you're describing.

#38 Santa Claus

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 10:47 PM

View Postgohansrage, on 24 January 2013 - 07:01 PM, said:

I don't think he thought Gaustad wasn't a threat, but Goose was closer to his weight class than Scott is. I honestly think Lucic would punk down from Scott and Thornton would step in.  I really do.

My argument overall is that guys like Scott end up fighting guys like Orr and Thorton.  And while entertaining (and that Orr/ Engelland fight is AMAZING), I don't know that it has the effect you're describing.

So do I, but even that would send a little message to Lucic.

#39 Who Else?

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 10:54 PM

9:24 left in the thid period.  Carolina has just scored to make it 5-3.  Who comes on the ice, but John Scott.  This gut must be a goal scorer or something.  Sabres are going to have to find a new tough guy, because Scott seems to be Lindy's offensive answer.

#40 hockeyhound

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 11:14 PM

View PostWho Else?, on 24 January 2013 - 10:54 PM, said:

9:24 left in the thid period.  Carolina has just scored to make it 5-3.  Who comes on the ice, but John Scott.  This gut must be a goal scorer or something.  Sabres are going to have to find a new tough guy, because Scott seems to be Lindy's offensive answer.

Did you catch when Lindy put Ennis out on the ice with Scott?

Lindy put Eniss out there with a bunch of fourth line guys who couldn't skate, and Eniss was able to draw a penalty.

I would say that was a pretty creative way to create scoring chances.

You are right, I don't want Scott out there trying to be a finesse hockey player but, I do want him out there like he did tonight standing in front of the oppossing goalie.

It is aweful hard to move 270lbs.