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Grigorenko watch


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#1 djp14150

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 02:18 AM

What will happen after game 5 he plays??? will they send to JRs or keep him on the club.

For his first two games he has played pretty good.  He drew some power plays against Philadelphia.

I wonder if they will have him play on the power play at all or on an occasional shift put him with Vanek and Pommenville to see what he can do.


My gut feeling is that he doesnt stay with the club this year....not for his play...but because of contracts...of his and of other players.


First him playing this year will mean his first yr contract kicks in which means 1 yr sooner for a new contract thus more money.

Currently they have McCormick and Gerbe on the IR.   Ellis would go down to Rochester and likely clear waivers.   That means they need to move one of their Dmen since none of them will clear waivers.  

Having Grigorenko will give them better offense potential for the third line.


If he is sent down back to JRs he will be in Buffalo for all of the 2013-14 season.

#2 Grumpy

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 07:56 AM

We know he is superior at JR and as long as they can keep his confidence  up I think the NHL would be better for his development. Like you I think contracts may play a factor, and I'm not saying that's wrong.

#3 carpandean

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 08:05 AM

He has had some moments in the first two games, but not enough to justify a spot yet.  However, he likely has three more games to show something more.

#4 Derrico

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 08:07 AM

I agree with Grumpy that he's been there, done that in juniors. If he can get decent minutes in the NHL then keep him up to help his development. I know there's a salary cap but I don't think 'burning' one year of his contract is as big of a deal now that T Pegs runs the show.

#5 inkman

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 08:17 AM

I think the heart of the matter is really what do the Sabres have if Grigs is sent down.  If 19 or 63 is hurt, that puts Hecht, Adam, Porter, Ott or Leino as one if your top two centers.  :sick:

#6 Glass Case Of Emotion

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 08:24 AM

While I have not seen a compelling reason to keep Grigs, and I disagree with Ink that he is less of a :sick: choice than Ott, Leino, or Hecht for a top 2 C spot, I really don't see the benefit of sending him to juniors. I think he'll learn more on the 3/4 line in the nhl with a chance to get some pp time than he could possibly learn tearing up the defenseless Q.

#7 elcrusho

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 08:25 AM

They need to NOT change anything right now........

#8 carpandean

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 08:26 AM

View PostLastPommerFan, on 22 January 2013 - 08:24 AM, said:

I disagree with Ink that he is less of a :sick: choice than Ott, Leino, or Hecht for a top 2 C spot

I don't think that you are disagreeing with Ink.  Pretty sure he was implying that if they send Grigs down, then they are screwed if Ennis or Hodgson goes down (i.e., he's a better choice.)

#9 Glass Case Of Emotion

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 08:28 AM

View Postcarpandean, on 22 January 2013 - 08:26 AM, said:

I don't think that you are disagreeing with Ink.  Pretty sure he was implying that if they send Grigs down, then they are screwed if Ennis or Hodgson goes down (i.e., he's a better choice.)

Let me reword:

I disagree, Grigs is no less of a :sick:  choice for a top 2 c spot than the previously mentioned players.

#10 inkman

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 08:29 AM

View Postcarpandean, on 22 January 2013 - 08:26 AM, said:

I don't think that you are disagreeing with Ink.  Pretty sure he was implying that if they send Grigs down, then they are screwed if Ennis or Hodgson goes down (i.e., he's a better choice.)
Exactly.  Much to angry 11's dismay, they have 0 center depth.  I don't know how this roster works without keeping Grigs or trading for a center.

#11 bills_fan_in_raleigh

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 08:31 AM

is Leino even playing??

#12 Glass Case Of Emotion

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 08:32 AM

View Postinkman, on 22 January 2013 - 08:29 AM, said:

Exactly.  Much to angry 11's dismay, they have 0 center depth.  I don't know how this roster works without keeping Grigs or trading for a center.

I have seen nothing that tells me that Mikhail being on the roster improves this situation. This Year.

#13 BuffaloBorn

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 08:45 AM

he's only played 2 games with limited ice time on the 3rd line. i'm not calling the show either way yet

#14 Billy Fuccillo

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 08:46 AM

View PostGrumpy, on 22 January 2013 - 07:56 AM, said:

We know he is superior at JR and as long as they can keep his confidence  up I think the NHL would be better for his development. Like you I think contracts may play a factor, and I'm not saying that's wrong.

The new owner has stated that the sole purpose of this franchise is to win Stanley Cups, not make money. Sending Grigs down won't help with his hockey development, nor will it help the Sabres win more games. Someone please tell me whose valuable roster spot is being taken up by Grigs...Matt Ellis? Luke Adam? Give me a break.

#15 Glass Case Of Emotion

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 08:50 AM

View PostBilly Fuccillo, on 22 January 2013 - 08:46 AM, said:

The new owner has stated that the sole purpose of this franchise is to win Stanley Cups, not make money. Sending Grigs down won't help with his hockey development, nor will it help the Sabres win more games. Someone please tell me whose valuable roster spot is being taken up by Grigs...Matt Ellis? Luke Adam? Give me a break.

No neither of those.

We have 25 on the roster right now, with 2 on IR (McCormick and Gerbe) When one comes back you send down Ellis. After that, you are sending down a player who could help the team more this year than Grigs will.

#16 LTS

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 08:51 AM

I think right now it would be fair to say that he's down the depth chart at Center if you need a guy who you know is responsible and reliable in the position.  If you are looking for the "game manager" type player and not someone too dynamic.  Hecht, Leino, and Ott all present a more reliable and responsible choice at the position but certainly not the dynamics.

This isn't to say that Grigorenko has not been reliable. In fact I like his positioning and he's been down low making some good defensive plays in the past two games (last night especially).  Right now I think he 's staying.  I think the option to have him in the lineup for the year and filling in a top 6 position if needed is too important to pass up.  If you look at who the Sabres have to move to make room it's not real difficult.  They can send down Ellis and McCormick.  They probably would both clear and if not it's not a big loss at this point.  The Sabres have Foligno, Scott, Kaleta, and Ott.  Role players are easier to find than skill players.

So, you send down Ellis and McCormick (when he returns).  Do they need to send anyone else?  Brennan, Weber, and Leino are the 21-23 players on the roster at the moment.  If you send down Ellis you are down to 22 and can bring Gerbe into the mix.

Did I miss someone or something?

#17 inkman

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 08:54 AM

View Postbills_fan_in_raleigh, on 22 January 2013 - 08:31 AM, said:

is Leino even playing??
No.  Does that mean we should exclude him from all future Sabres discussions? Here's hoping...

Edited by inkman, 22 January 2013 - 08:54 AM.


#18 26CornerBlitz

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 08:56 AM

1/22 Lindy discusses his teams start, penalties, Grigorenko and more

Listening to Lindy on WGR this morning, it sounds as if they're happy with what they've seen from the rook thus far.  Responsible in his own end has been the key with a few nice plays on the offensive end.

#19 inkman

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 08:57 AM

View PostBilly Fuccillo, on 22 January 2013 - 08:46 AM, said:

The new owner has stated that the sole purpose of this franchise is to win Stanley Cups, not make money. Sending Grigs down won't help with his hockey development, nor will it help the Sabres win more games. Someone please tell me whose valuable roster spot is being taken up by Grigs...Matt Ellis? Luke Adam? Give me a break.
Which leads me to believe trading for a NHL quality center should be in the fold.  Having too many centers is a good problem to have.

#20 Glass Case Of Emotion

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 08:58 AM

View PostLTS, on 22 January 2013 - 08:51 AM, said:

I think right now it would be fair to say that he's down the depth chart at Center if you need a guy who you know is responsible and reliable in the position.  If you are looking for the "game manager" type player and not someone too dynamic.  Hecht, Leino, and Ott all present a more reliable and responsible choice at the position but certainly not the dynamics.

This isn't to say that Grigorenko has not been reliable. In fact I like his positioning and he's been down low making some good defensive plays in the past two games (last night especially).  Right now I think he 's staying.  I think the option to have him in the lineup for the year and filling in a top 6 position if needed is too important to pass up.  If you look at who the Sabres have to move to make room it's not real difficult.  They can send down Ellis and McCormick.  They probably would both clear and if not it's not a big loss at this point.  The Sabres have Foligno, Scott, Kaleta, and Ott.  Role players are easier to find than skill players.

So, you send down Ellis and McCormick (when he returns).  Do they need to send anyone else?  Brennan, Weber, and Leino are the 21-23 players on the roster at the moment.  If you send down Ellis you are down to 22 and can bring Gerbe into the mix.

Did I miss someone or something?

Swapping out McCormick for Grigorenko seems like a terrible idea for this year. Kaleta will get hurt, Ott will get suspended, and McCormick can take way more minutes than Scott, which will be critical in the compressed season.

#21 LTS

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 08:58 AM

View Postinkman, on 22 January 2013 - 08:57 AM, said:

Which leads me to believe trading for a NHL quality center should be in the fold.  Having too many centers is a good problem to have.

If there's a trade to be had it will be at the deadline when a team that has no shot is willing to give up a player.  The problem is that every team will be looking for someone like Getzlaf and that will drive up the price.  Not saying you don't pay it.. just that it won't be easy to get.

#22 Grumpy

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 08:59 AM

View PostLastPommerFan, on 22 January 2013 - 08:50 AM, said:

No neither of those.

We have 25 on the roster right now, with 2 on IR (McCormick and Gerbe) When one comes back you send down Ellis. After that, you are sending down a player who could help the team more this year than Grigs will.

As much as this may be true for this year, I don't think we are ready to win a cup with our youth down the middle. Development is key for our future. Ellis, McCormick and Gerbe aren't.

#23 LTS

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 09:01 AM

View PostLastPommerFan, on 22 January 2013 - 08:58 AM, said:

Swapping out McCormick for Grigorenko seems like a terrible idea for this year. Kaleta will get hurt, Ott will get suspended, and McCormick can take way more minutes than Scott, which will be critical in the compressed season.

That may be the case but there are players in Rochester that can be called up to fill those roles.  I'm not sold on Ott being suspended.  Kaleta getting hurt?  Sure.. that's got history on his side.  If you send down McCormick and keep calling him up you run the risk of someone picking him up sure.. but what are the odds?

If you want someone to fill in a skating role on the 4th line move up Sekera or play Brennan there and let Weber play on defense.. (yea, I said it).

#24 bills_fan_in_raleigh

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 09:09 AM

personally I think the sabres are better with Cody, Ennis, Grigs and Mccormick(ellis, hecht ) as 4th line center.   Just need some chemistry on that third line with Ott, Grigs and whomever will play other wing

#25 dudacek

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 09:09 AM

Grigs has been better than Adam was to start last year.
He's a little too slow to react and soft on the puck out there, but you can see the talent and tell his head is in the game — he's trying to be very conscious of his defence, he's just not quite in the groove.
I say he stays as long as Lindy commits to giving him 12 minutes a night, and enough offensive opportunities to keep his confidence up.
If he drops below 10 minutes what's the point?

#26 ThirtyEight

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 09:10 AM

Grigs has looked good defensively, back checks well and his positioning is good. Him and Coho both have a high hockey IQ, they just seem to know in their bones where they should be. He does, however, look like what he is - a talented rookie. He has shown flashes, but he has also made mistakes (e.g. that brutal shift last night). I think, so far, he has been good enough that he is not a liability, which is what will really determine if he stays. So I think he stays.

He was also way more noticeable last night (for both good and bad reasons) than he was two nights ago.

#27 LabattBlue

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 09:21 AM

My biggest surprise is how little the puck has been on his stick in any zone for a guy playing center.  I am not sure if it just nerves at this point, but as others have pointed out, if they send Grigs down, the center depth if the event of injuries is frightening.

#28 Neuvirths Glove

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 09:25 AM

View Postbills_fan_in_raleigh, on 22 January 2013 - 08:31 AM, said:

is Leino even playing??

Lower body injury just before Game 1.  Day to day.

View PostLabattBlue, on 22 January 2013 - 09:21 AM, said:

My biggest surprise is how little the puck has been on his stick in any zone for a guy playing center.  I am not sure if it just nerves at this point, but as others have pointed out, if they send Grigs down, the center depth if the event of injuries is frightening.

He moves it very quickly.  He doesn't dangle.  I have a feeling he's been informed that things close quickly in the NHL and he'd better find his next pass before the defense closes on him.  I'd rather see fast movement that dangling to try to show off (a la Max Afenigenov).  If he can dangle we'll see it eventually, but right now I'd rather see him move the puck more quickly.  It's a good habit to get into.

As for my assessment, he's had moments where he's done the wrong thing with the puck, and been out of position.  They seem kind of glaring at the moment they happen, but they quickly pass and he seems to be learning from the mistakes he makes.  Someone said something about sending him down hurting his confidence.  The opposite could be true:  If he makes a few of those rookie mistakes and they start costing goals, that could ruin him too.

He's got a few more games.  Let's see what he does with them.  He either emerges as an NHL player or not.  Either way, I like what I'm seeing out of him, at least for now.

Edited by Doohickie, 22 January 2013 - 09:30 AM.


#29 weave

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 09:30 AM

View PostLabattBlue, on 22 January 2013 - 09:21 AM, said:

My biggest surprise is how little the puck has been on his stick in any zone for a guy playing center.  I am not sure if it just nerves at this point, but as others have pointed out, if they send Grigs down, the center depth if the event of injuries is frightening.

I didn't get to see last nights game, but the bolded is what I noticed against Philly.  I am disappointed to hear it continued in Toronto.  I have to assume it comes from over thinking and being cautious about positioning but this kid has got to get the puck on his stick a good bit if he wants to make the show.

#30 LGR4GM

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 09:30 AM

I'm in favor of returning Grigs to juniors.  Let him play 25mins a night and continue to work on his game.  Hes seen the NHL and understands it better now so let him go back to jrs and process everything. Obviously next year he can come up and play through camp, earn a roster spot, and be here for the entire season.  There is no need to rush him into the lineup this year.  Hecht/Ott can center that 3rd line and it may not be ideal but I would rather have superstar grigs at 22/23 than mediocre not quite ready grigs for 18+ (I'm thinking of will this hurt his overall development).  I think the extra ice time in jrs and now that he knows what to expect in the NHL he should go back until next season.

#31 bills_fan_in_raleigh

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 09:36 AM

View Postweave, on 22 January 2013 - 09:30 AM, said:

I didn't get to see last nights game, but the bolded is what I noticed against Philly.  I am disappointed to hear it continued in Toronto.  I have to assume it comes from over thinking and being cautious about positioning but this kid has got to get the puck on his stick a good bit if he wants to make the show.
its the fear of Lindy that is holding him back, but entire line has done little in controlling the puck

#32 qwksndmonster

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 09:41 AM

Who have his linemates been so far? Hecht and Ott mostly? I wanna see him with more talent.  I think once Leino's back that'll be a big boost for our third line, and Grigs.

#33 d4rksabre

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 09:42 AM

I see no reason to send him back down. Let him get his experience.

#34 26CornerBlitz

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 09:44 AM

View Postqwksndmonster, on 22 January 2013 - 09:41 AM, said:

Who have his linemates been so far? Hecht and Ott mostly? I wanna see him with more talent. I think once Leino's back that'll be a big boost for our third line, and Grigs.

I wholeheartedly agree, Leino's puck possession game should help the line produce on the offensive end and allow Grigs to showcase more of his creative talent.

#35 qwksndmonster

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 09:53 AM

View Post26CornerBlitz, on 22 January 2013 - 09:44 AM, said:

I wholeheartedly agree, Leino's puck possession game should help the line produce on the offensive end and allow Grigs to showcase more of his creative talent.
I also think that Leino's talent is wasted if he can't play with a talented linemate.  He and Grigs seem like a great combination, and I'm just waiting to see it.

#36 inkman

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 09:58 AM

View Postqwksndmonster, on 22 January 2013 - 09:53 AM, said:


I also think that Leino's talent is wasted if he can't play with a talented linemate.  He and Grigs seem like a great combination, and I'm just waiting to see it.
I think many of us are still questioning his so called talent.

#37 Sabres Fan In NS

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 09:59 AM

There is absolutely nothing to be gained by sending him back to Quebec.  His Q League game maxed out a long time ago.

=====

Speaking of the Q ...

Halifax Mooseheads still tearing it up ... record now ... 38 - 4 - 2 - 1 for 79 points.  Running away with the regular season.  Can't wait for the playoffs and hopefully the Memorial Cup.


EDIT TO ADD:

GO MOOSEHEADS!!

Edited by Sabres Fan In NS, 22 January 2013 - 10:08 AM.


#38 dEnnis the Menace

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 10:02 AM

I posted in the game day thread instead of this one, but I'll say it again: Grigs leads centers in FO% so far.  He's won over 50% of his draws (9/16).  The next closest center is Ennis at 41.9%.  I say keep him if he keeps winning his faceoffs!

#39 inkman

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 10:03 AM

View PostdEnnis the Menace, on 22 January 2013 - 10:02 AM, said:

I posted in the game day thread instead of this one, but I'll say it again: Grigs leads centers in FO% so far.  He's won over 50% of his draws (9/16).  The next closest center is Ennis at 41.9%.  I say keep him if he keeps winning his faceoffs!
FWIW, I don't think Lindy has had him take one draw im the defensive zone.

#40 qwksndmonster

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 10:04 AM

View Postinkman, on 22 January 2013 - 09:58 AM, said:

I think many of us are still questioning his so called talent.
I think that's the most boring opinion ever and we've seen it about a trillion times since the start of last season. Leino's going to be the player everyone says he is if he doesn't have more talent than Hecht and Ott on his lein.