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Do the Sabres need another Russian?


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#1 thewookie1

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 10:48 AM

As the topic states, do they?

I wonder how much it would take to pry Kucherov from the Lightning seeing as he and Grigo have some awesome chemistry.

#2 Eleven

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 11:23 AM

I recommend Rasputin.

#3 MattPie

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 11:25 AM

View PostEleven, on 03 January 2013 - 11:23 AM, said:

I recommend Rasputin.

With Fitz apparently on the way out, Buffalo needs another serious beard.

#4 Sabres Fan In NS

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 11:31 AM

View PostEleven, on 03 January 2013 - 11:23 AM, said:

I recommend Rasputin.

You made me do it ...



Ra, Ra ...

#5 Robviously

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 11:36 AM

When we drafted Grigorenko, the thought was that they shouldn't bring in another Russian because you don't want to form "cliques."  If Grigorenko is our franchise center, we'd want him to integrate with the rest of the team (and North America) as quickly and thoroughly as possible.  I guess that sounds a little silly, but I used to work in an office with a group of Russians and they did (mostly) keep to themselves and each other.  FWIW.

Actually, we should probably just get him to marry a girl from Cheektowaga for the whole integration thing.

#6 MattPie

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 11:47 AM

View PostSabres Fan In NS, on 03 January 2013 - 11:31 AM, said:

You made me do it ...



Ra, Ra ...

I'm so glad I listened long enough to get to the lyrics, awesome.

#7 d4rksabre

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 12:12 PM

View PostSabres Fan In NS, on 03 January 2013 - 11:31 AM, said:



You made me do it ...



Ra, Ra ...

I'm going to have this in my head the rest of the day. :thumbsup:

#8 nfreeman

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 10:44 PM

Wookie -- you are far from the only poster (or hockey executive or commentator, for that matter) who does this, but I have a hard time understanding why it's OK to generalize about Russians/Euros/Canadians/Americans in a hockey context.  Would anyone ever ask whether the Sabres need another black player?  Would anyone ever opine that 1 black player is OK, but 2 is too many?  Of course not.  So why is the same question OK when it's asked about Russians?

#9 biodork

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 11:22 PM

View PostSabres Fan In NS, on 03 January 2013 - 11:31 AM, said:

You made me do it ...



Ra, Ra ...

Lol so catchy!

#10 Neo

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 11:35 PM

View PostSabres Fan In NS, on 03 January 2013 - 11:31 AM, said:

You made me do it ...



Ra, Ra ...

I signed in just to say .... classic.

#11 716

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 12:05 AM

thanks for Ra-Ra Rasputin.

#12 Peppy22

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 05:38 AM

I think the Sabres need a Swede :D

#13 Kristian

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 06:50 AM

I think the Sabres need a cup.

#14 deluca67

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 06:55 AM

View PostPeppy22, on 04 January 2013 - 05:38 AM, said:

I think the Sabres need a Swede :D
Maybe the Sabres can start breeding a race of Russian/Swede hybrids?

#15 26CornerBlitz

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 07:57 AM

View Postthewookie1, on 03 January 2013 - 10:48 AM, said:

As the topic states, do they?

I wonder how much it would take to pry Kucherov from the Lightning seeing as he and Grigo have some awesome chemistry.

Valeri Nichushkin?

http://www.hockeysfu...eri-nichushkin/

#16 shrader

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 08:46 AM

View Postnfreeman, on 03 January 2013 - 10:44 PM, said:

Wookie -- you are far from the only poster (or hockey executive or commentator, for that matter) who does this, but I have a hard time understanding why it's OK to generalize about Russians/Euros/Canadians/Americans in a hockey context.  Would anyone ever ask whether the Sabres need another black player?  Would anyone ever opine that 1 black player is OK, but 2 is too many?  Of course not.  So why is the same question OK when it's asked about Russians?

So wait, you're telling me the Sabres have Jean-Luc (Picard) Grand-Pierre AND Rumun Ndur?
(I feel like I'm forgetting someone)

#17 ChileanSeaBass

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 08:50 AM

There's obviously a fear with NHL GMs regarding drafting Russian prospects, and having them stay in Russia to play in the KHL.  I don't see a problem with it as long they've played juniors in N.America.  If there's a quality Russian sniper on the board who's playing in the Q, O, or W, then go for it, but only because he's the best available player, not for the sake of having a Russian buddy for Grigorenko.

#18 Peppy22

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 08:56 AM

Maybe its because Russians have the reputation of being super spectacular players, but never winning the big things. Like being a clutch performer who scores 4 GWG in the stanley cup playoffs.

#19 Sabres Fan In NS

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 11:34 AM

View PostMattPie, on 03 January 2013 - 11:47 AM, said:

I'm so glad I listened long enough to get to the lyrics, awesome.

View Postd4rksabre, on 03 January 2013 - 12:12 PM, said:

I'm going to have this in my head the rest of the day. :thumbsup:

View Postbiodork, on 03 January 2013 - 11:22 PM, said:

Lol so catchy!

I know you three are pretty young, but please tell me this is not the first time you all have heard this tune, right?  Right!

#20 biodork

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 11:39 AM

View PostSabres Fan In NS, on 04 January 2013 - 11:34 AM, said:

I know you three are pretty young, but please tell me this is not the first time you all have heard this tune, right?  Right!

It was for me...

#21 MattPie

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 11:48 AM

View PostSabres Fan In NS, on 04 January 2013 - 11:34 AM, said:

I know you three are pretty young, but please tell me this is not the first time you all have heard this tune, right?  Right!

View Postbiodork, on 04 January 2013 - 11:39 AM, said:

It was for me...

Same here. I didn't listen to much disco growing up, being two years old when that song was released. It has grown on me a bit, mostly via listening to ELO.

#22 Sabres Fan In NS

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 11:51 AM

View Postbiodork, on 04 January 2013 - 11:39 AM, said:

It was for me...

Oh, dear!

My poor darling and dear bio ... denied one of best pleasures of the disco bondage era of music ... until January 3, 2013 ...

Oh, dear!




;)

EDIT:

And to MattPie ...

Oh, dear!

......................


EDIT AGAIN:

And to d4rk ...

Oh, dear!

...................... (just in case) ......................

Edited by Sabres Fan In NS, 04 January 2013 - 11:55 AM.


#23 biodork

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 12:04 PM

View PostSabres Fan In NS, on 04 January 2013 - 11:51 AM, said:

Oh, dear!

My poor darling and dear bio ... denied one of best pleasures of the disco bondage era of music ... until January 3, 2013 ...

Oh, dear!




;)

EDIT:

And to MattPie ...

Oh, dear!

......................


EDIT AGAIN:

And to d4rk ...

Oh, dear!

...................... (just in case) ......................

(giggle) sorry I missed that!  ;)

Edit:  I'd google it, but given the potential search results it's probably best to wait until I'm not at work, lol.

Edited by biodork, 04 January 2013 - 12:09 PM.


#24 d4rksabre

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 12:45 PM

View PostSabres Fan In NS, on 04 January 2013 - 11:34 AM, said:


I know you three are pretty young, but please tell me this is not the first time you all have heard this tune, right?  Right!

Not a chance! I harass my girlfriend with this and Moskau by Dschinghis Khan all the time! :P

Edited by d4rksabre, 04 January 2013 - 12:46 PM.


#25 ThirtyEight

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 01:10 PM

I agree with the whole Russian thing. I don't see any reason you can't have many on a team, it all depends on the person - for example, you can't get more into the 'American' life than Ovi did, i respected him for how well he threw himself into a foreign country, but he now wants to play in the KHL. Compare that to Datsyuk, who still struggles to speak English, but has been the clutch heart of the Red Wings for an age.

I think that if a player has chemistry with Grigs then we should try and get him - Kucherov is a good pick not because he is Russian, but because he has played with him at both a National and club level and has scored lots of points with him. I think the Russian factor only matters because it has given them more time to play together, not because they have a secret understanding of each others play that comes from being Russian

Also, never heard that song before, but my 16 year old sister had...

#26 qwksndmonster

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 01:34 PM

I haven't heard that song in ages.  Thanks, NS.

As for the OP, I would take any good players regardless of where they're from?

#27 Heimdall

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 02:02 AM

Makarov anyone ?

#28 Loyalty

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 03:34 AM

Sorry- i know this is going a bit off topic on what you guys are talking about, but felt this was interesting but also didn't need it's own thread-

A bit of a controversy in Russia over this WJC team but it seems as if Grigorenko has handled it pretty well. Media/outsiders have blamed the team had partied all tournament and even one guy suggested Grigs was 2 years older then what he claims...

Quote

It’s sad to read such nastiness in the media,” Grigorenko told Russian media outlet Sportbox.ru. “Nail Yakupov is bad. Mikhail Grigorenko is bad. The hockey is bad. I don’t know what game he was watching.
“All the guys are giving everything on the ice and can’t be blamed.”

Quote

As for Semak — well, he wasn’t done with the accusations.

He went on to suggest Grigorenko was two years older than the rest of the field at the WJC (see here and here). Whispers about the legitimacy of Grigorenko’s age have come up before, only to be quashed after a thorough investigation.

As expected, the Sabres prospect didn’t take too kindly to those accusations either.

“Who is he? A coach? Of what club? Tolpar? Never heard of such,” he said of Semak. “It seems that the man just didn’t get the job he wanted and he’s now happy that we’ve lost.”

Link- http://prohockeytalk...renko-responds/

#29 bunomatic

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 12:11 PM

View PostVanek-Man, on 05 January 2013 - 03:34 AM, said:

Sorry- i know this is going a bit off topic on what you guys are talking about, but felt this was interesting but also didn't need it's own thread-

A bit of a controversy in Russia over this WJC team but it seems as if Grigorenko has handled it pretty well. Media/outsiders have blamed the team had partied all tournament and even one guy suggested Grigs was 2 years older then what he claims...





Link- http://prohockeytalk...renko-responds/

  Sour grapes ? These kids won bronze which isn't exactly chump change in a short tournament. Grigs played great. Imo Yakupov is a one man show who failed to use his team mates properly. Too often he tried to do it all by himself. Makarov was good. Perhaps it can be said that the Russians should have picked the hot hand in net and went with him rather than alternating between the two ?

#30 Rico7

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 09:31 PM

View PostSabres Fan In NS, on 03 January 2013 - 11:31 AM, said:



You made me do it ...



Ra, Ra ...

Sorry, but that was awful.

Edited by Rico7, 05 January 2013 - 09:32 PM.


#31 Sabres Fan In NS

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 09:55 AM

View PostRico7, on 05 January 2013 - 09:31 PM, said:

Sorry, but that was awful.

As a good friend, who just happens to be a Rabbi, often says ...

*There is always someone who insists on ruining the party by throwing a turd into the punch bowl*





:P

#32 Falstaff

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 11:08 AM

View PostRobviously, on 03 January 2013 - 11:36 AM, said:

Actually, we should probably just get him to marry a girl from Cheektowaga for the whole integration thing.
Haven't the Russians been having their way with the huge tracts of Poland long enough?

#33 Robviously

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 12:42 PM

View Postnfreeman, on 03 January 2013 - 10:44 PM, said:

Wookie -- you are far from the only poster (or hockey executive or commentator, for that matter) who does this, but I have a hard time understanding why it's OK to generalize about Russians/Euros/Canadians/Americans in a hockey context.  Would anyone ever ask whether the Sabres need another black player?  Would anyone ever opine that 1 black player is OK, but 2 is too many?  Of course not.  So why is the same question OK when it's asked about Russians?
Because it's about culture and language and not about race.  Anywhere I've ever been where there was a large international presence (be it a university or workplace), people tended to gravitate towards others who shared their background.  Because they're bad?  No, because it's easier.  If I was in an office in Moscow with one other American, I'd probably mostly talk to that one other American.  There's a pretty good chance we like the same things (i.e. grew up watching the same TV shows and watching the same sports.)

The risk with a group of Russians (or a group from any country) is that they'll be a clique and not feel like they're part of the rest of the team and the risk with a single Russian (or one guy from any country) is that he'll feel alone and isolated from the rest of the team.  That's just reality.  I hope it's something the Sabres think about when they try to bring these young kids over here, and I expect that they do have ways to ease that transition.

#34 Patty16

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 12:47 PM

every team has cliques, including the Sabres right meow.

#35 nfreeman

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:17 PM

View PostRobviously, on 06 January 2013 - 12:42 PM, said:


Because it's about culture and language and not about race.  Anywhere I've ever been where there was a large international presence (be it a university or workplace), people tended to gravitate towards others who shared their background.  Because they're bad?  No, because it's easier.  If I was in an office in Moscow with one other American, I'd probably mostly talk to that one other American.  There's a pretty good chance we like the same things (i.e. grew up watching the same TV shows and watching the same sports.)

The risk with a group of Russians (or a group from any country) is that they'll be a clique and not feel like they're part of the rest of the team and the risk with a single Russian (or one guy from any country) is that he'll feel alone and isolated from the rest of the team.  That's just reality.  I hope it's something the Sabres think about when they try to bring these young kids over here, and I expect that they do have ways to ease that transition.

Well, I can't speak for the OP, but I think when hockey people discuss the issues with Russian players, the concerns are usually on-ice issues -- I.e. finesse, non-physical, selfish, inconsistent, not coachable, etc.

#36 OverPowerYou

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:24 PM

View PostMattPie, on 03 January 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:



With Fitz apparently on the way out, Buffalo needs another serious beard.

We should have About 20+ beards come early June

#37 weave

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:29 PM

View Postnfreeman, on 06 January 2013 - 10:17 PM, said:

Well, I can't speak for the OP, but I think when hockey people discuss the issues with Russian players, the concerns are usually on-ice issues -- I.e. finesse, non-physical, selfish, inconsistent, not coachable, etc.

Like Jason Bonsignore?  :devil:


Interesting.  I did a google search on NHL draft busts to come up with NA players that fit your description.  European players overwhelmingly dominated the lists of NHL draft busts.

#38 Loyalty

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 03:41 AM

View Postweave, on 06 January 2013 - 10:29 PM, said:

Like Jason Bonsignore?  :devil:


Interesting.  I did a google search on NHL draft busts to come up with NA players that fit your description.  European players overwhelmingly dominated the lists of NHL draft busts.

Not sure I agree with this. In the late 90's, there was a ton of busts, Euro and North America, probably because of lack of scouting but also teams were probably reaching on Europeans to find the next "Moginly" or "Federov". Kind of like how baseball teams today overpay to sign Japanese players, hoping to land that next star, even though most of the players who come over are average at best.

I looked at roughly the last 10 years (more modern era), and it seems like teams have shied away from picking Europeans at free will, similarly to Sabres going a long stretch with all North American players. The number of busts still remained high - just most of them are North American players. I based it off where the player was chosen (all these are top-10 picks) and lack of scoring at the NHL level.

Euros- Nikita Filatov, Boris Valabik, Lauri Tukonen and Marek Zagrapan (not top10) seem to be the only ones. Magnus Paajarvi is the next worst player in this time period, and he's just 21 years old and despite a horrid season, has 17 NHL career goals already.

N.A.- Jack Skille, Zach Hamill, James Sheppard, Rob Schremp, Gilbert Brule, Benoit Pouliot, Nazem Kadri, Alexandre Picard, AJ Thelen, Hugh Jessiman and even goalies Al Montoya and Pascal Leclaire.

Seems to me, teams are staying away from trying to shoot for the stars by drafting a Euro, but their missing at a similar rate as they did when they did draft unknown Europeans.

During this time period, when teams did pick a Euro, most have been successful. List of the most successful- Ovechkin, Malkin, Mikkel Boedker, Landeskog, Hedman, Ekman-Larsson, Nic Backstrom (capitals) and Jakub Voracek.

#39 Eleven

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 06:36 AM

As far as cliques go, well, it worked for Detroit.

#40 Robviously

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 11:12 PM

View Postnfreeman, on 06 January 2013 - 10:17 PM, said:

Well, I can't speak for the OP, but I think when hockey people discuss the issues with Russian players, the concerns are usually on-ice issues -- I.e. finesse, non-physical, selfish, inconsistent, not coachable, etc.
The original poster was talking about chemistry so I take that as the pros and cons of having a Russian buddy to hang out with Grigorenko.