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Shooting at Hook Elementary School in CT

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#81 TheMatrix31

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 05:20 AM

Good post, brother.

#82 wjag

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 07:22 AM

I don't subscribe to the concept of evil.  It is too subjective.   I do subscribe to mental health and brain defects.

I heard in one snippet today that the shooter was autistic.  I live everyday with a child who is on the spectrum (some of you on here know what that means).  We socialize with tons of families who have children and adults with disabilities and attendant behavior issues.  We see all kinds of mental health issues.  My wife and her best friend work with families with disabilities, homeless, and the poor.  "There are none so blind as those who refuse to see".  You should see what we see.

There is no doubt in my mind that this individual was probably bipolar and genuinely had bad days.  When you don't want to address the issue, chalk it up to evil.  That way you can just dismiss it without further action required.  If you want to deal with this (Virginia Tech, Columbine, Rep Giffords, Aurora, etc, etc, etc, etc) get to the root of the issue start a genuine conversation about mental health..  So many people have dropped off the radar during the last four years that there are ticking time bombs everywhere, in every community.

#83 Corp000085

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 07:39 AM

View Postwjag, on 15 December 2012 - 07:22 AM, said:

I don't subscribe to the concept of evil.  It is too subjective.   I do subscribe to mental health and brain defects.

I heard in one snippet today that the shooter was autistic.  I live everyday with a child who is on the spectrum (some of you on here know what that means).  We socialize with tons of families who have children and adults with disabilities and attendant behavior issues.  We see all kinds of mental health issues.  My wife and her best friend work with families with disabilities, homeless, and the poor.  "There are none so blind as those who refuse to see".  You should see what we see.

There is no doubt in my mind that this individual was probably bipolar and genuinely had bad days.  When you don't want to address the issue, chalk it up to evil.  That way you can just dismiss it without further action required.  If you want to deal with this (Virginia Tech, Columbine, Rep Giffords, Aurora, etc, etc, etc, etc) get to the root of the issue start a genuine conversation about mental health..  So many people have dropped off the radar during the last four years that there are ticking time bombs everywhere, in every community.

Good post. Look for my pm...  


As far as autism, for those who don't know or understand, autism is a catch all label like cancer. Autism comes in many forms, like cancer (breast, liver, prostate, etc.). AU is a communication and socialization disorder that has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with what happened today. AU does not affect overall cognition, mental health, or morality. Yesterday's events were evil by someone who had mental problems. He will meet his judgement, but no one should mention the word autism with what happened yesterday.

#84 wjag

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 07:48 AM

View PostCorp000085, on 15 December 2012 - 07:39 AM, said:



Good post. Look for my pm...  


As far as autism, for those who don't know or understand, autism is a catch all label like cancer. Autism comes in many forms, like cancer (breast, liver, prostate, etc.). AU is a communication and socialization disorder that has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with what happened today. AU does not affect overall cognition, mental health, or morality. Yesterday's events were evil by someone who had mental problems. He will meet his judgement, but no one should mention the word autism with what happened yesterday.

I agree, autism is a bin.   This man probably was on the spectrum and had attendant behaviors.  I'm going with bipolar or something similar.

#85 Corp000085

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 09:13 AM

View Postwjag, on 15 December 2012 - 07:48 AM, said:

I agree, autism is a bin.   This man probably was on the spectrum and had attendant behaviors.  I'm going with bipolar or something similar.

Hopefully he shot himself in the heart so his brain can be analyzed.

#86 wjag

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 09:20 AM

So it sounds like he shot the glass and bypassed the new security system.  So much for that false sense of security..

#87 PASabreFan

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 09:38 AM

View Postwjag, on 15 December 2012 - 07:22 AM, said:

I don't subscribe to the concept of evil.  It is too subjective.   I do subscribe to mental health and brain defects.

I heard in one snippet today that the shooter was autistic.  I live everyday with a child who is on the spectrum (some of you on here know what that means).  We socialize with tons of families who have children and adults with disabilities and attendant behavior issues.  We see all kinds of mental health issues.  My wife and her best friend work with families with disabilities, homeless, and the poor.  "There are none so blind as those who refuse to see".  You should see what we see.

There is no doubt in my mind that this individual was probably bipolar and genuinely had bad days.  When you don't want to address the issue, chalk it up to evil.  That way you can just dismiss it without further action required.  If you want to deal with this (Virginia Tech, Columbine, Rep Giffords, Aurora, etc, etc, etc, etc) get to the root of the issue start a genuine conversation about mental health..  So many people have dropped off the radar during the last four years that there are ticking time bombs everywhere, in every community.

Great post. But in a country where 36% of the people believe that recent extreme weather is a sign of biblical end times, good luck getting that message through.

#88 SwampD

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 10:14 AM

Lots of good posts here.

I'll pray for the kids.  I'll pray for the families.  I'll pray for the shooter.

Edited by SwampD, 15 December 2012 - 11:12 AM.


#89 Eleven

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 10:22 AM

View Postwjag, on 15 December 2012 - 07:48 AM, said:

I agree, autism is a bin.   This man probably was on the spectrum and had attendant behaviors.  I'm going with bipolar or something similar.

Looks like you nailed it:  http://news.blogs.cn...acre/?hpt=hp_t1

See the comment at 130 am.

View PostBlueNGold, on 14 December 2012 - 10:18 PM, said:

So sorry to hear of her loss.   Prayers for you, her and all at this time.

Thanks so much, but send them to her--I'm fine!  Actually, given that there are thirty people dead just one state away, I'm surprised that (1) so far, I only know one person affected and (2) more of us here don't know someone affected.

Edited by Eleven, 15 December 2012 - 10:23 AM.


#90 wjag

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 10:57 AM

View Postwjag, on 14 December 2012 - 05:24 PM, said:

To the makers of the Bushmaster, congratulations.  You have developed the perfect weapon for mowing down toddlers..

Just heard that the Bushmaster was in the car and he did this all with handguns.  My apologies for rushing to judgment.

#91 bunomatic

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 11:20 AM

View Postwjag, on 15 December 2012 - 10:57 AM, said:

Just heard that the Bushmaster was in the car and he did this all with handguns.  My apologies for rushing to judgment.

So the handguns get a free pass ? I guess if everyones got one they can't be all that bad.

#92 wjag

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 11:24 AM

View Postbunomatic, on 15 December 2012 - 11:20 AM, said:



So the handguns get a free pass ? I guess if everyones got one they can't be all that bad.

No.. Not with me..  I really don't see the difference, but I recognize others on here do.

#93 PASabreFan

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 11:28 AM

View Postwjag, on 15 December 2012 - 10:57 AM, said:

Just heard that the Bushmaster was in the car and he did this all with handguns.  My apologies for rushing to judgment.

I thought the state police spokesman said this morning all the weapons were found next to the deceased shooter.

#94 PASabreFan

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 11:40 AM

So this is where things get real for the rest of us not directly affected by the events in Connecticut. My 16-year-old nephew posted this message on Facebook last night:

"Dear world,
Please end in 7 days. I'm so sick and tired of all this nonsense.
Sincerly
(name removed)"

He's a good, funny, smart kid, with real friends and a real girlfriend. But of course he's moody, can be emotional and pushy, quiet, etc. In other words, a 16-year-old boy.

We live a great distance apart. I don't see him often, and we don't talk much on the phone. I'm going to be at his house starting next week. I messaged him on Facebook and simply asked "What nonsense?" He replied, "Everything." I replied back something to the effect that all we ever do is joke around, but if you want to talk for real, we have Facebook, texting and I actually have a house phone, rotary dial and a cord and everything.

The mother is on Facebook a lot, is friends with the kid and comments on his posts frequently. I'm almost certain she read the concerning comment. My concern about telling the mother about it is that she will almost certainly go to the kid and tell him what I said. Even if I ask her not to. So that would instantly destroy any confidence he would have in telling me private things.

I seriously doubt there's anything to be really concerned about. He has a sarcastic sense of humor and likes to tweak people, be dramatic -- wonder where he got that from?

Not sure why I'm posting here except I took to heart Ghost's post of yesterday about the therapeutic, close-knit nature of this board. Thought I would share. Advice needed. Also, maybe it will help someone else navigate the bizarre world of teenage angst in this era of youth violence. Bottom line, we adults have to take this seriously. How to do it is the rub.

And, yep, there are weapons in the house! Ugh.

Edited by PASabreFan, 15 December 2012 - 11:41 AM.


#95 weave

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 11:48 AM

View PostPASabreFan, on 15 December 2012 - 11:40 AM, said:

So this is where things get real for the rest of us not directly affected by the events in Connecticut. My 16-year-old nephew posted this message on Facebook last night:

"Dear world,
Please end in 7 days. I'm so sick and tired of all this nonsense.
Sincerly
(name removed)"

He's a good, funny, smart kid, with real friends and a real girlfriend. But of course he's moody, can be emotional and pushy, quiet, etc. In other words, a 16-year-old boy.

We live a great distance apart. I don't see him often, and we don't talk much on the phone. I'm going to be at his house starting next week. I messaged him on Facebook and simply asked "What nonsense?" He replied, "Everything." I replied back something to the effect that all we ever do is joke around, but if you want to talk for real, we have Facebook, texting and I actually have a house phone, rotary dial and a cord and everything.

The mother is on Facebook a lot, is friends with the kid and comments on his posts frequently. I'm almost certain she read the concerning comment. My concern about telling the mother about it is that she will almost certainly go to the kid and tell him what I said. Even if I ask her not to. So that would instantly destroy any confidence he would have in telling me private things.

I seriously doubt there's anything to be really concerned about. He has a sarcastic sense of humor and likes to tweak people, be dramatic -- wonder where he got that from?

Not sure why I'm posting here except I took to heart Ghost's post of yesterday about the therapeutic, close-knit nature of this board. Thought I would share. Advice needed. Also, maybe it will help someone else navigate the bizarre world of teenage angst in this era of youth violence. Bottom line, we adults have to take this seriously. How to do it is the rub.

And, yep, there are weapons in the house! Ugh.

It is more than understandable to be concerned.  As I mentioned upthread, I have a 15 yr old son that has been the victim of bullying.  I won't get into long sordid details but it has been an issue we've dealt with for about 5 years now.  We had a good conversation last night.  I don't think we "needed" to have it, if you know what I mean.  But I "needed" to have it.   I needed some peace of mind that my boy wasn't thinking that what happened yesterday is an optional way out of the bullshyt.

#96 Eleven

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 11:49 AM

View PostPASabreFan, on 15 December 2012 - 11:40 AM, said:

So this is where things get real for the rest of us not directly affected by the events in Connecticut. My 16-year-old nephew posted this message on Facebook last night:

"Dear world,
Please end in 7 days. I'm so sick and tired of all this nonsense.
Sincerly
(name removed)"

He's a good, funny, smart kid, with real friends and a real girlfriend. But of course he's moody, can be emotional and pushy, quiet, etc. In other words, a 16-year-old boy.

We live a great distance apart. I don't see him often, and we don't talk much on the phone. I'm going to be at his house starting next week. I messaged him on Facebook and simply asked "What nonsense?" He replied, "Everything." I replied back something to the effect that all we ever do is joke around, but if you want to talk for real, we have Facebook, texting and I actually have a house phone, rotary dial and a cord and everything.

The mother is on Facebook a lot, is friends with the kid and comments on his posts frequently. I'm almost certain she read the concerning comment. My concern about telling the mother about it is that she will almost certainly go to the kid and tell him what I said. Even if I ask her not to. So that would instantly destroy any confidence he would have in telling me private things.

I seriously doubt there's anything to be really concerned about. He has a sarcastic sense of humor and likes to tweak people, be dramatic -- wonder where he got that from?

Not sure why I'm posting here except I took to heart Ghost's post of yesterday about the therapeutic, close-knit nature of this board. Thought I would share. Advice needed. Also, maybe it will help someone else navigate the bizarre world of teenage angst in this era of youth violence. Bottom line, we adults have to take this seriously. How to do it is the rub.

And, yep, there are weapons in the house! Ugh.

Unless you think he's going to something drastic before you see him next week, maybe wait and evaluate him in person?  Hopefully he's just being a teenager.

#97 K-9

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 11:53 AM

View PostPASabreFan, on 15 December 2012 - 11:40 AM, said:

So this is where things get real for the rest of us not directly affected by the events in Connecticut. My 16-year-old nephew posted this message on Facebook last night:

"Dear world,
Please end in 7 days. I'm so sick and tired of all this nonsense.
Sincerly
(name removed)"

He's a good, funny, smart kid, with real friends and a real girlfriend. But of course he's moody, can be emotional and pushy, quiet, etc. In other words, a 16-year-old boy.

We live a great distance apart. I don't see him often, and we don't talk much on the phone. I'm going to be at his house starting next week. I messaged him on Facebook and simply asked "What nonsense?" He replied, "Everything." I replied back something to the effect that all we ever do is joke around, but if you want to talk for real, we have Facebook, texting and I actually have a house phone, rotary dial and a cord and everything.

The mother is on Facebook a lot, is friends with the kid and comments on his posts frequently. I'm almost certain she read the concerning comment. My concern about telling the mother about it is that she will almost certainly go to the kid and tell him what I said. Even if I ask her not to. So that would instantly destroy any confidence he would have in telling me private things.

I seriously doubt there's anything to be really concerned about. He has a sarcastic sense of humor and likes to tweak people, be dramatic -- wonder where he got that from?

Not sure why I'm posting here except I took to heart Ghost's post of yesterday about the therapeutic, close-knit nature of this board. Thought I would share. Advice needed. Also, maybe it will help someone else navigate the bizarre world of teenage angst in this era of youth violence. Bottom line, we adults have to take this seriously. How to do it is the rub.

And, yep, there are weapons in the house! Ugh.

I can foresee a day when authorities, perhaps not yet created, will mine social websites for comments like this and unsuspecting subscribers will be subject to additional scrutiny as a result.

I wish I had advice for you as an uncle. Just let him know you're there for him. Most teens come through these transformational years a bit wiser for the experience. If there is a change in behavior that accompanies the dramatic teen-angst driven rhetoric, you'll know it's more serious and you'll know what to do as a loving relative. Trust yourself.

#98 PASabreFan

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 12:01 PM

Of course I got back the disarming reply: "oh im fine but thank you uncle! when are you coming down?"

#99 Eleven

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 12:04 PM

ESPN:  I don't need your commentary on the tragedy.  I really don't.  I'm turning to your station for a break from the real world, not further immersion in it.

#100 Sabres Fan In NS

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 12:10 PM

View PostPASabreFan, on 15 December 2012 - 12:01 PM, said:

Of course I got back the disarming reply: "oh im fine but thank you uncle! when are you coming down?"

Trust your first instinct, brother.  A post like that leads me to believe that there is something more to it.

Forget Facebook.  Call him and if you can move up your travel plans.

#101 shrader

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 01:21 PM

Whatever you do PA, just don't let it pass without doing something. It probably is nothing, but better safe than sorry. Reach out in whatever way you feel is best. What we really need to learn from things like this is to pay more attention and to help those who we think are troubled.

#102 Sabres Fan In NS

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 01:31 PM

View Postshrader, on 15 December 2012 - 01:21 PM, said:

Whatever you do PA, just don't let it pass without doing something. It probably is nothing, but better safe than sorry. Reach out in whatever way you feel is best. What we really need to learn from things like this is to pay more attention and to help those who we think are troubled.

shrader,

I know we have had our moments on this board, but this is outstanding advice for all of us.

Thanks.

#103 inkman

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 01:36 PM

View PostEleven, on 15 December 2012 - 12:04 PM, said:

ESPN:  I don't need your commentary on the tragedy.  I really don't.  I'm turning to your station for a break from the real world, not further immersion in it.
Outside of this board and TBD, I've tried to stay clear of the whole in incident.  After the initial report, I just didn't want to sit in front of my computer and cry like a baby.  Maybe it's shameful or cowardice but I don't want to think too long and hard about  tragedies like that.

Edited by inkman, 15 December 2012 - 01:37 PM.


#104 Claude_Verret

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 02:18 PM

View Postshrader, on 15 December 2012 - 01:21 PM, said:

Whatever you do PA, just don't let it pass without doing something. It probably is nothing, but better safe than sorry. Reach out in whatever way you feel is best. What we really need to learn from things like this is to pay more attention and to help those who we think are troubled.


This.  My cousin committed suicide at 16. The signs were always there,  but of course were never crystal clear until it was too late. The distance of time heals some,  but that was a dark,  dark time for my family.

#105 DeLuca1967

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 02:22 PM

View PostPASabreFan, on 15 December 2012 - 11:40 AM, said:

So this is where things get real for the rest of us not directly affected by the events in Connecticut. My 16-year-old nephew posted this message on Facebook last night:

"Dear world,
Please end in 7 days. I'm so sick and tired of all this nonsense.
Sincerly
(name removed)"

He's a good, funny, smart kid, with real friends and a real girlfriend. But of course he's moody, can be emotional and pushy, quiet, etc. In other words, a 16-year-old boy.

We live a great distance apart. I don't see him often, and we don't talk much on the phone. I'm going to be at his house starting next week. I messaged him on Facebook and simply asked "What nonsense?" He replied, "Everything." I replied back something to the effect that all we ever do is joke around, but if you want to talk for real, we have Facebook, texting and I actually have a house phone, rotary dial and a cord and everything.

The mother is on Facebook a lot, is friends with the kid and comments on his posts frequently. I'm almost certain she read the concerning comment. My concern about telling the mother about it is that she will almost certainly go to the kid and tell him what I said. Even if I ask her not to. So that would instantly destroy any confidence he would have in telling me private things.

I seriously doubt there's anything to be really concerned about. He has a sarcastic sense of humor and likes to tweak people, be dramatic -- wonder where he got that from?

Not sure why I'm posting here except I took to heart Ghost's post of yesterday about the therapeutic, close-knit nature of this board. Thought I would share. Advice needed. Also, maybe it will help someone else navigate the bizarre world of teenage angst in this era of youth violence. Bottom line, we adults have to take this seriously. How to do it is the rub.

And, yep, there are weapons in the house! Ugh.
Children will be the catalyst for real change in this country. It seems your nephew is expressing raw emotion, there are many avenues for him to channel that emotion.  It would do this country well if your nephew and others like him create a real outcry for change in regards to the gun problem in this country. The youth of this country dominate social media, it would warm my heart to see the youth of this country using that power to effect real change. A strong message to the so-called "adults" that run this country that they are tired of being put in danger by the politics of the so-called "adults."

#106 wjag

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 02:30 PM

View Postbunomatic, on 15 December 2012 - 11:20 AM, said:



So the handguns get a free pass ? I guess if everyones got one they can't be all that bad.

Not sure what I'm bothered more about: the notion that he splayed an automatic rifle or that he picked off children one at a time.  I think the latter, but I'm not sure.

Edit:  so he did use the rifle on the kids after all..

Edited by wjag, 15 December 2012 - 07:09 PM.


#107 wjag

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 11:44 AM

CNN trying to walk back the damage they've done on labeling the shooter autistic.  The reporting on this, starting with incorrectly identifying the shooter, to interviewing the kids, to cameras following grieving townsfolks everywhere, to the race to put out inaccurate information has been reprehensible.  



#108 Eleven

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 11:48 AM

View Postwjag, on 16 December 2012 - 11:44 AM, said:

CNN trying to walk back the damage they've done on labeling the shooter autistic.  The reporting on this, starting with incorrectly identifying the shooter, to interviewing the kids, to cameras following grieving townsfolks everywhere, to the race to put out inaccurate information has been reprehensible.  

So he was not, in fact, autistic?  (I know the bit I linked yesterday was from CNN.)

The interviews of children were disgusting.

#109 PASabreFan

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 12:00 PM

One of the mothers of an older girl who made it out of the school appeared with the girl on Bill O'Reilly's show on Friday night. The girl had that thousand-yard stare. I was flabbergasted to see them again minutes later on CNN with Piers Morgan. The little girl couldn't hear Piers (lucky kid), so Piers asked the mother to ask the little girl if she wanted to say anything. The girl shook her head. "You sure?" the mother asked. The girl nodded her head. Piers observed that the little girl was cold and just wanted to go home with her mum. You think, Piers? I have no idea if the mom had any of her 15 minutes left to take the kid on Nightline or Sports Center or something, but I wouldn't be surprised.

Last night, the first parent of a dead child made a statement before the media and took a number of questions. The young man spoke in a trembling voice but was more articulate in talking about his little girl and more generous in his comments about the shooter's family and the way forward than I would have been. It was incredible, actually. Something stopped me, however. The families on Friday as a group asked the state police to ask the media to protect their privacy. As of this writing, no other parent has come forward in such a public way. I have to wonder how this family made the decision to put their lost child ahead of the others, to be the first to speak to the media. I tend to believe the decision caused pain in some of the other grieving families. A joint statement, a group spokesperson, a joint release of photos of all of the kids... there had to be a better way. But it seems like, as after 9/11, there are always the people most able to deal with the media pressures who decide to lead the way.

CNN and some of the other networks are now running promos touting their coverage and urging viewers to stick with them, as images of crying parents, and running children, and waiting ambulances appear. Marketing 101, using an elementary school massacre for better ratings.

What kind of people are we, really? Do we end up with what we deserve? On some level, are these tragedies so useful to our society that we have not much of an incentive to end them?

#110 wjag

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 12:04 PM

View PostEleven, on 16 December 2012 - 11:48 AM, said:



So he was not, in fact, autistic?  (I know the bit I linked yesterday was from CNN.)

The interviews of children were disgusting.

It simply has not been confirmed where on the spectrum he was.  Autism is a catch-all diagnosis for a group of behaviors.  The walk back part I refer to is the linkage they made that because he was "autistic" that was causal for this.    Until someone from the family comes out (and I mean father or brother) and states what his diagnosis was, the rest is speculation.  I think you will start seeing mental health professionals walking this autism notion back too.  



#111 Sabres Fan In NS

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 12:07 PM

To combine replies ...

The first two quoted posts are from the Politics thread ...

View PostEleven, on 16 December 2012 - 10:50 AM, said:

Conspiracy theorists, there's your cue.

View Postwjag, on 16 December 2012 - 11:17 AM, said:

Don't think my mind didnt go there immediately.. Working from home..  Hmmm..

Not to mention the inability to testify before numerous congessional committees ... :ph34r: .

=====

And from this thread ...

View PostEleven, on 16 December 2012 - 11:48 AM, said:

So he was not, in fact, autistic?  (I know the bit I linked yesterday was from CNN.)

The interviews of children were disgusting.

CNN is a joke.  Still tabloid journalism after all these years.

Concerning autism.  The shooter may very well have been, but it really would have no impact.  It is reasonalble to say that the shooter was mentally unstable.

The fact is that autism is NOT a mental disorder.  It impacts the people suffering from it in leading a *normal* life in some way and to varying degrees, but it is not considered a mental health issue.  Autism alone would not have made the shooter do what he did.

Edited by Sabres Fan In NS, 16 December 2012 - 12:09 PM.


#112 Eleven

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 12:16 PM

View PostPASabreFan, on 16 December 2012 - 12:00 PM, said:

One of the mothers of an older girl who made it out of the school appeared with the girl on Bill O'Reilly's show on Friday night. The girl had that thousand-yard stare. I was flabbergasted to see them again minutes later on CNN with Piers Morgan. The little girl couldn't hear Piers (lucky kid), so Piers asked the mother to ask the little girl if she wanted to say anything. The girl shook her head. "You sure?" the mother asked. The girl nodded her head. Piers observed that the little girl was cold and just wanted to go home with her mum. You think, Piers? I have no idea if the mom had any of her 15 minutes left to take the kid on Nightline or Sports Center or something, but I wouldn't be surprised.

Last night, the first parent of a dead child made a statement before the media and took a number of questions. The young man spoke in a trembling voice but was more articulate in talking about his little girl and more generous in his comments about the shooter's family and the way forward than I would have been. It was incredible, actually. Something stopped me, however. The families on Friday as a group asked the state police to ask the media to protect their privacy. As of this writing, no other parent has come forward in such a public way. I have to wonder how this family made the decision to put their lost child ahead of the others, to be the first to speak to the media. I tend to believe the decision caused pain in some of the other grieving families. A joint statement, a group spokesperson, a joint release of photos of all of the kids... there had to be a better way. But it seems like, as after 9/11, there are always the people most able to deal with the media pressures who decide to lead the way.

CNN and some of the other networks are now running promos touting their coverage and urging viewers to stick with them, as images of crying parents, and running children, and waiting ambulances appear. Marketing 101, using an elementary school massacre for better ratings.

What kind of people are we, really? Do we end up with what we deserve? On some level, are these tragedies so useful to our society that we have not much of an incentive to end them?

I can think that maybe the parent you reference in the second paragraph was dealing with grief in the way that is best for him.  Maybe he needed to speak publicly.

As for the rest of it, idiocy prevails.

View Postwjag, on 16 December 2012 - 12:04 PM, said:

It simply has not been confirmed where on the spectrum he was.  Autism is a catch-all diagnosis for a group of behaviors.  The walk back part I refer to is the linkage they made that because he was "autistic" that was causal for this. Until someone from the family comes out (and I mean father or brother) and states what his diagnosis was, the rest is speculation.  I think you will start seeing mental health professionals walking this autism notion back too.  

Got it.

Those interested in the mental health angle might want to check this out:  http://gawker.com/59...m-lanzas-mother

Edited by Eleven, 16 December 2012 - 12:19 PM.


#113 weave

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 12:22 PM

View PostSabres Fan In NS, on 16 December 2012 - 12:07 PM, said:

To combine replies ...

The first two quoted posts are from the Politics thread ...





Not to mention the inability to testify before numerous congessional committees ... :ph34r: .

=====

And from this thread ...



CNN is a joke.  Still tabloid journalism after all these years.

Concerning autism.  The shooter may very well have been, but it really would have no impact.  It is reasonalble to say that the shooter was mentally unstable.

The fact is that autism is NOT a mental disorder.  It impacts the people suffering from it in leading a *normal* life in some way and to varying degrees, but it is not considered a mental health issue.  Autism alone would not have made the shooter do what he did.

I'm not certain that the bolded part is accurate.  I'm no expert on the subject by any means but from what I've read on the subject (admittedly it is not in depth) there are certainly symptoms and issues involving the condition that could have a very real impact on an individuals decision to do something like this.

I don't necessarily want to chase this down the rabbit hole, but felt compelled to respond to what I read as a very absolute statement on your part.

#114 Sabres Fan In NS

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 12:35 PM

View Postweave, on 16 December 2012 - 12:22 PM, said:

I'm not certain that the bolded part is accurate.  I'm no expert on the subject by any means but from what I've read on the subject (admittedly it is not in depth) there are certainly symptoms and issues involving the condition that could have a very real impact on an individuals decision to do something like this.

I don't necessarily want to chase this down the rabbit hole, but felt compelled to respond to what I read as a very absolute statement on your part.

I understand and appreciate your comment, weave.

For the information of all ...

http://www.calgaryhe...5720/story.html

And ...

http://www.ninds.nih...tail_autism.htm

#115 PASabreFan

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 12:39 PM

View PostEleven, on 16 December 2012 - 12:16 PM, said:

I can think that maybe the parent you reference in the second paragraph was dealing with grief in the way that is best for him.  Maybe he needed to speak publicly.

The other thing that comes to mind as an explanation is just sheer, blinding grief, a collection of family members not able to think clearly. I lost my mother back in the spring. She was a ripe old age and even now I feel like my judgment is clouded in certain decisions I have to make. And the situations are not really comparable.

Another family member of this little girl spoke first and mentioned a Facebook page they established as a fundraiser so the little girl could be flown back to Utah for burial. Again, judgment is clouded. None of these families will want for anything.

In other news, Victor Cruz of the Giants reached out to a family and will wear something on his helmet or shoes to honor the little boy. Which is wonderful. I question how it ended up on NFL.com, that's all. In so many ways, it's just an irresistible opportunity. Hey, social media, too, even SabreSpace. We're part of that, too. It's a compelling, fascinating story, and we all find some satisfaction in expressing our opinions. Nobody's hands are clean.

#116 Sabres Fan In NS

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 12:46 PM

View PostPASabreFan, on 16 December 2012 - 12:39 PM, said:

The other thing that comes to mind as an explanation is just sheer, blinding grief, a collection of family members not able to think clearly. I lost my mother back in the spring. She was a ripe old age and even now I feel like my judgment is clouded in certain decisions I have to make. And the situations are not really comparable.

Another family member of this little girl spoke first and mentioned a Facebook page they established as a fundraiser so the little girl could be flown back to Utah for burial. Again, judgment is clouded. None of these families will want for anything.

In other news, Victor Cruz of the Giants reached out to a family and will wear something on his helmet or shoes to honor the little boy. Which is wonderful. I question how it ended up on NFL.com, that's all. In so many ways, it's just an irresistible opportunity. Hey, social media, too, even SabreSpace. We're part of that, too. It's a compelling, fascinating story, and we all find some satisfaction in expressing our opinions. Nobody's hands are clean.

Sorry for your loss, PA.

Is that part of the reason why you took a long break from this forum?

I don't mean to pry, so you don't have to answer if you don't want.  PM me if you prefer.

#117 Eleven

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 12:56 PM

View PostPASabreFan, on 16 December 2012 - 12:39 PM, said:

The other thing that comes to mind as an explanation is just sheer, blinding grief, a collection of family members not able to think clearly. I lost my mother back in the spring. She was a ripe old age and even now I feel like my judgment is clouded in certain decisions I have to make. And the situations are not really comparable.

Another family member of this little girl spoke first and mentioned a Facebook page they established as a fundraiser so the little girl could be flown back to Utah for burial. Again, judgment is clouded. None of these families will want for anything.

In other news, Victor Cruz of the Giants reached out to a family and will wear something on his helmet or shoes to honor the little boy. Which is wonderful. I question how it ended up on NFL.com, that's all. In so many ways, it's just an irresistible opportunity. Hey, social media, too, even SabreSpace. We're part of that, too. It's a compelling, fascinating story, and we all find some satisfaction in expressing our opinions. Nobody's hands are clean.

We have nothing to gain by talking about it.

#118 d4rksabre

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 01:45 PM

View PostPASabreFan, on 16 December 2012 - 12:00 PM, said:

One of the mothers of an older girl who made it out of the school appeared with the girl on Bill O'Reilly's show on Friday night. The girl had that thousand-yard stare. I was flabbergasted to see them again minutes later on CNN with Piers Morgan. The little girl couldn't hear Piers (lucky kid), so Piers asked the mother to ask the little girl if she wanted to say anything. The girl shook her head. "You sure?" the mother asked. The girl nodded her head. Piers observed that the little girl was cold and just wanted to go home with her mum. You think, Piers? I have no idea if the mom had any of her 15 minutes left to take the kid on Nightline or Sports Center or something, but I wouldn't be surprised.

Last night, the first parent of a dead child made a statement before the media and took a number of questions. The young man spoke in a trembling voice but was more articulate in talking about his little girl and more generous in his comments about the shooter's family and the way forward than I would have been. It was incredible, actually. Something stopped me, however. The families on Friday as a group asked the state police to ask the media to protect their privacy. As of this writing, no other parent has come forward in such a public way. I have to wonder how this family made the decision to put their lost child ahead of the others, to be the first to speak to the media. I tend to believe the decision caused pain in some of the other grieving families. A joint statement, a group spokesperson, a joint release of photos of all of the kids... there had to be a better way. But it seems like, as after 9/11, there are always the people most able to deal with the media pressures who decide to lead the way.

CNN and some of the other networks are now running promos touting their coverage and urging viewers to stick with them, as images of crying parents, and running children, and waiting ambulances appear. Marketing 101, using an elementary school massacre for better ratings.

What kind of people are we, really? Do we end up with what we deserve? On some level, are these tragedies so useful to our society that we have not much of an incentive to end them?

I find myself asking this every time another of these incidents happen. I'm having a hard time figuring out what is worse, the tragic event, or the media's shameless desire to exploit it in the name of "journalism". Is there no one that can provide some kind of measuring stick for decency, or is it completely gone?

I just don't know.

#119 weave

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 01:56 PM

Decency was sacrificed at the alter of the Almighty Dollar many years ago.

#120 Sabres Fan In NS

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 03:48 PM

To make matters even worse ...

A church, in the town where the shootings happened, holding a memorial service had to be evacuated due to ...

... you guessed it ... bomb threat.

http://www.cbc.ca/ne...l-shooting.html

Maybe the Mayans and GoDD are on to something here.





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