60 replies to this topic

[Robviously]

I never had much interest in the CHL (OHL, QMJHL, and WHL) until I saw some WHL games in Everett, WA, when I worked out there.  The hockey was surprisingly good given how young the players were and the crowd was always into it (it was amazing how much the Everett fans hated Seattle and Vancouver).  Every since Terry Pegula started buying hockey teams, I've been wondering if he'd think about adding a second team to Buffalo as part of the "Hockey Heaven" thing.  Now that he's also looking to add extra ice rinks to the city too, I figure it can't be that much of a stretch.

I did a Google search on OHL expansion and apparently it's been a rumor for years: http://www.ohlalumni...expansion-poll/

A lot of the speculation is about adding a "Buffalo" team to the suburbs somewhere (Tonawanda?) but I don't see why they couldn't play their home games at the FNC.  Just limit ticket sales to the 100 and 200 levels and you basically have a large CHL arena (and not the largest since the Vancouver Giants play in the Canucks' old Pacific Coliseum).  If we're building up the entire neighborhood around the FNC, this is a good way to get people down there 34 more times a year.  It'd also be nice to have another way to see hockey in the FNC with Sabres tickets getting more expensive and harder to come by (especially around the holidays, which is the only time a lot of us are home for hockey).

There's no rule against Pegula buying an OHL team.  Peter Karmanos, the Hurricanes owner, owns the OHL's Plymouth Whalers (and an ECHL team for three total).  http://en.wikipedia....r_Karmanos,_Jr.  Uncle Terry probably feels like a chump for only owning two hockey teams.  Why not a third?

Anyways, it's August, so this is the type of stuff I think about.

[gohansrage]

Robviously, on 02 August 2012 - 10:08 PM, said:

I never had much interest in the CHL (OHL, QMJHL, and WHL) until I saw some WHL games in Everett, WA, when I worked out there.  The hockey was surprisingly good given how young the players were and the crowd was always into it (it was amazing how much the Everett fans hated Seattle and Vancouver).  Every since Terry Pegula started buying hockey teams, I've been wondering if he'd think about adding a second team to Buffalo as part of the "Hockey Heaven" thing.  Now that he's also looking to add extra ice rinks to the city too, I figure it can't be that much of a stretch.

I did a Google search on OHL expansion and apparently it's been a rumor for years: http://www.ohlalumni...expansion-poll/

A lot of the speculation is about adding a "Buffalo" team to the suburbs somewhere (Tonawanda?) but I don't see why they couldn't play their home games at the FNC.  Just limit ticket sales to the 100 and 200 levels and you basically have a large CHL arena (and not the largest since the Vancouver Giants play in the Canucks' old Pacific Coliseum).  If we're building up the entire neighborhood around the FNC, this is a good way to get people down there 34 more times a year.  It'd also be nice to have another way to see hockey in the FNC with Sabres tickets getting more expensive and harder to come by (especially around the holidays, which is the only time a lot of us are home for hockey).

There's no rule against Pegula buying an OHL team.  Peter Karmanos, the Hurricanes owner, owns the OHL's Plymouth Whalers (and an ECHL team for three total).  http://en.wikipedia....r_Karmanos,_Jr.  Uncle Terry probably feels like a chump for only owning two hockey teams.  Why not a third?

Anyways, it's August, so this is the type of stuff I think about.

The Niagara Ice Dogs are in the OHL. That being said, I do think Buffalo can support two junior hockey teams. If they put one in a southern suburb (West Seneca? Lackawanna?)

[ubkev]

I think it would be pretty cool. I've never really thought about it much though. I think its always great when you can watch more hockey.

[djp14150]

Buffalo could easily support a junior team.  I live in the Seattle area and there are two teams in the immediate area.  One is in Everett and the other is named Seattle but plays in Kent which is about the equivalent of say west seneca to Buffalo where they have an 8,000 seat arena that hosts small concerts, ice shows, high school and small college basketball and WHL games.

they could add a team in niagara falls playing at Dwyer and then a team in Buffalo as well as Rochester &  Syracuse.

There has been talk of addition  teams not just on the Buffalo area but also in Minnesota, Wisconsin, Chicago area, Michigan, northern Ohio, and New england.

They could creaet a  JR league of about 16 teams if they really wanted to of just US teams which would then create 4 jr leagues where they then could have some final four tournamanet for a championship....over 10 days each team plays a best of 3 and then a best of 3 for the championship in one city.

[shrader]

How well do the Erie Otters draw?  That has always seemed like an odd location for an OHL team to me.

[BuffaloSoldier2010]

shrader, on 03 August 2012 - 08:08 AM, said:

How well do the Erie Otters draw?  That has always seemed like an odd location for an OHL team to me.

When you consider that the countrys population is below 40 million it does seem like an odd location, but then you have to consider that a large portion of that number lives relatively close to the border.  I'm sure they draw adequate numbers.

[shrader]

BuffaloSoldier2010, on 03 August 2012 - 08:14 AM, said:

When you consider that the countrys population is below 40 million it does seem like an odd location, but then you have to consider that a large portion of that number lives relatively close to the border.  I'm sure they draw adequate numbers.

I hate to say it, but I have absolutely no clue what you are trying to say here.

[wjag]

I'm not convinced that Buffalo could support both the Sabres and an OHL team.  If they played at different times of the year, I could see it.  But I would think that when the Sabres are playing on the same night as the Junior Sabres, which one is the population going to care about and support?  I just don't think there is enough disposable income in WNY to support the Bills, Sabres and Junior Sabres at the same time....  The Sabres and Bills have plenty of North of the Border support.  But, but, but, there is plenty of hockey being played at all levels in Canada that I can't see them supporting a junior hockey team in a Buffalo burb.

[BuffaloSoldier2010]

shrader, on 03 August 2012 - 08:19 AM, said:

I hate to say it, but I have absolutely no clue what you are trying to say here.

I cant really figure out how to word it.

Basically what I'm saying (really really watered down version) is that its a hockey team in canada, so I'm sure they draw a respectable crowd.

[TrueBluePhD]

wjag, on 03 August 2012 - 08:34 AM, said:

I'm not convinced that Buffalo could support both the Sabres and an OHL team.  If they played at different times of the year, I could see it.  But I would think that when the Sabres are playing on the same night as the Junior Sabres, which one is the population going to care about and support?  I just don't think there is enough disposable income in WNY to support the Bills, Sabres and Junior Sabres at the same time....  The Sabres and Bills have plenty of North of the Border support.  But, but, but, there is plenty of hockey being played at all levels in Canada that I can't see them supporting a junior hockey team in a Buffalo burb.

I think it would depend on interest level more so than disposable income.  The waiting list for Sabres seasons is around 4k (I think).  If those on the wait list are hockey fans (rather than just Sabres fans) that's a big pool to draw from to sell tickets.  Also look at the support the Bandits get, and a big part of that is ticket price.  Price appropriately and I think there would be plenty of support (I have no idea how much OHL games cost to attend).

[Double-J]

From a personal standpoint, it would be cool, especially if it became affiliated with the Sabres/ended up with some Sabres prospects on the team. But like others have said, I'm concerned about the ability of the area to support it.

[ChileanSeaBass]

TrueBluePhD, on 03 August 2012 - 09:04 AM, said:

Price appropriately and I think there would be plenty of support (I have no idea how much OHL games cost to attend).

I went to a game last season in Kingston with a couple of friends, and we got great seats, first row on the glass, for $12 IIRC.

[shrader]

BuffaloSoldier2010, on 03 August 2012 - 08:56 AM, said:

I cant really figure out how to word it.

Basically what I'm saying (really really watered down version) is that its a hockey team in canada, so I'm sure they draw a respectable crowd.

Ahhh, ok.  But here's the problem.  The Erie Otters play in Erie, PA.  Last time I checked, that's not in Canada.

[ChileanSeaBass]

BuffaloSoldier2010, on 03 August 2012 - 08:56 AM, said:

I cant really figure out how to word it.

Basically what I'm saying (really really watered down version) is that its a hockey team in canada, so I'm sure they draw a respectable crowd.

The Erie Otters play in Erie, PA.  In 2010-2011, the Otters averaged 1,749 per game.  London led the way that year with 8,947.

[thesportsbuff]

ChileanSeaBass, on 03 August 2012 - 09:26 AM, said:

The Erie Otters play in Erie, PA.  In 2010-2011, the Otters averaged 1,749 per game.  London led the way that year with 8,947.

A european city led the OHL in attendance? Blasphemy!

jokes^

[apuszczalowski]

TrueBluePhD, on 03 August 2012 - 09:04 AM, said:

I think it would depend on interest level more so than disposable income.  The waiting list for Sabres seasons is around 4k (I think).  If those on the wait list are hockey fans (rather than just Sabres fans) that's a big pool to draw from to sell tickets.  Also look at the support the Bandits get, and a big part of that is ticket price.  Price appropriately and I think there would be plenty of support (I have no idea how much OHL games cost to attend).

Just because theres 4k people waiting for season tickets to the Sabres, that doesn't mean they are just looking for any hockey tickets. Bandits support is because of the cheap tickets, and the sport. They play a different sport and have no ties t hockey besides playing in the same venue


As for the other comment someone had about getting support from Southern Ontario, Niagara already has the Ice Dogs in St. Catharines, I don't think you are going to take fans away when they will need to cross a border to go watch the games. Its different when you have a major sports team, or a sport thats has no closer major team.

I don't think an OHL team will work because I don't think Buffalo is a big enough city with a ton of disposable income. When teh Sabres are playing, they will be king and thats where the money will go, not to a minor league team. Of course, all TP has to do is announce he will bring a team and fans will be running to his side to do whatever he wants.....

And it would also involve having to either build a new arena for the team to play in or find some large local arena they could use. They would probably lose way too much money just selling the lower levels of FNC, considering the costs required to open and operate the arena.

Edited by apuszczalowski, 03 August 2012 - 09:56 AM.

[weave]

I have my doubts about Buffalo being able to support an OHL team.  And I don't see waiting list Sabres fans as OHL customers.

[TrueBluePhD]

apuszczalowski, on 03 August 2012 - 09:53 AM, said:

Just because theres 4k people waiting for season tickets to the Sabres, that doesn't mean they are just looking for any hockey tickets. Bandits support is because of the cheap tickets, and the sport. They play a different sport and have no ties t hockey besides playing in the same venue


As for the other comment someone had about getting support from Southern Ontario, Niagara already has the Ice Dogs in St. Catharines, I don't think you are going to take fans away when they will need to cross a border to go watch the games. Its different when you have a major sports team, or a sport thats has no closer major team.

I don't think an OHL team will work because I don't think Buffalo is a big enough city with a ton of disposable income. When teh Sabres are playing, they will be king and thats where the money will go, not to a minor league team. Of course, all TP has to do is announce he will bring a team and fans will be running to his side to do whatever he wants.....

And it would also involve having to either build a new arena for the team to play in or find some large local arena they could use. They would probably lose way too much money just selling the lower levels of FNC, considering the costs required to open and operate the arena.

1)  That's exactly what I said, hence the "if they're hockey fans not just Sabres fans....".  I don't think it's outrageous to think a solid portion of the waiting list would be open to getting seats for an OHL team if the price is right.

2)  The Bandits are successful because of ticket price, more so than sport, which was my point.  I don't think there's some rabid lacrosse following in WNY, but the games are fun to go to and dirt cheap, so the tickets sell really well.  It's a niche thing, there's a small group of hardcore fans, and they go to games and/or get season tickets because it's so cheap.  If the prices were $50 per game, I think the Bandits' great support would suddenly evaporate.  I see no reason why an OHL team couldn't have similar support if the price is right.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Hear that Bison Thunder.....
Feel that Bison beat........
Buffalo Baseball Bisons......
Stampede.....Stampede......Stampede..........

No

[weave]

TrueBluePhD, on 03 August 2012 - 10:00 AM, said:

1)  That's exactly what I said, hence the "if they're hockey fans not just Sabres fans....".  I don't think it's outrageous to think a solid portion of the waiting list would be open to getting seats for an OHL team if the price is right.

2)  The Bandits are successful because of ticket price, more so than sport, which was my point.  I don't think there's some rabid lacrosse following in WNY, but the games are fun to go to and dirt cheap, so the tickets sell really well.  It's a niche thing, there's a small group of hardcore fans, and they go to games and/or get season tickets because it's so cheap.  If the prices were $50 per game, I think the Bandits' great support would suddenly evaporate.  I see no reason why an OHL team couldn't have similar support if the price is right.

I think you are undervaluing the difference in the sport when you consider Bandit's crowds.  They appeal to a different demographic than Sabres do.  Lacross draws a younger, more energetic crowd.  It isn't just the price (although the pricing structure obviously works for that demographic).

If it is  mostly price (as I think you are asserting) then you'd have to consider the Bandits as a competitor for any prospective OHL team too.

Either way, I don;t think there would be enough support locally to cover Sabres, Bills, Bisons, Bandits, local college sports (which are really underappreciated around here), and an OHL team.

[TrueBluePhD]

Ghost of Dwight Drane, on 03 August 2012 - 10:04 AM, said:

Hear that Bison Thunder.....
Feel that Bison beat........
Buffalo Baseball Bisons......
Stampede.....Stampede......Stampede..........

No

Do you think that's an economic issue, or a baseball interest / level of competitiveness issue?  

weave, on 03 August 2012 - 10:09 AM, said:

I think you are undervaluing the difference in the sport when you consider Bandit's crowds.  They appeal to a different demographic than Sabres do.  Lacross draws a younger, more energetic crowd.  It isn't just the price (although the pricing structure obviously works for that demographic).

If it is  mostly price (as I think you are asserting) then you'd have to consider the Bandits as a competitor for any prospective OHL team too.

Either way, I don;t think there would be enough support locally to cover Sabres, Bills, Bisons, Bandits, local college sports (which are really underappreciated around here), and an OHL team.

1)  It's both IMO.  Triple prices and attendance would crash.  The Bandits have the right combination of fan interest and acceptable price level.

2)  Good point.

[d4rksabre]

weave, on 03 August 2012 - 10:09 AM, said:

I think you are undervaluing the difference in the sport when you consider Bandit's crowds.  They appeal to a different demographic than Sabres do.  Lacross draws a younger, more energetic crowd.  It isn't just the price (although the pricing structure obviously works for that demographic).

If it is  mostly price (as I think you are asserting) then you'd have to consider the Bandits as a competitor for any prospective OHL team too.

Either way, I don;t think there would be enough support locally to cover Sabres, Bills, Bisons, Bandits, local college sports (which are really underappreciated around here), and an OHL team.

The Bisons are irrelevant so scratch that from the equation. Canisius students don't care about their hockey team so scratch that. Buff State too. Niagara is the only "local" college team that draws a crowd.

That leaves Bills, Sabres, Bandits to draw from an OHL team. I think the only true competitor in that equation is the Bandits based on crowd age and ticket value. If anything an OHL team would take fans away from Bandits games, especially if they were perennial contenders.

[thesportsbuff]

I would attend OHL games in Buffalo. Never been to a Bandits game. Went to one Bisons game. And went to two Medaille College hockey games, which hardly count.

[shrader]

Ghost of Dwight Drane, on 03 August 2012 - 10:04 AM, said:

Hear that Bison Thunder.....
Feel that Bison beat........
Buffalo Baseball Bisons......
Stampede.....Stampede......Stampede..........

No

Do they still play that?

[d4rksabre]

thesportsbuff, on 03 August 2012 - 10:24 AM, said:

I would attend OHL games in Buffalo. Never been to a Bandits game. Went to one Bisons game. And went to two Medaille College hockey games, which hardly count.

Go to a Bandits game next season. They're so worth it. If I ever end up back in Buffalo I'd probably have season tickets. The atmosphere is what I'd always wished Sabres games could be like.

[weave]

TrueBluePhD, on 03 August 2012 - 10:14 AM, said:

Do you think that's an economic issue, or a baseball interest / level of competitiveness issue?  

Both.  And you can likely add, a general lack of interest in a minor league team too.

The Bisons were setting records when the community was energized by the idea that the Rich's may be bringing a major league team to Buffalo.  Interest in the Bisons has slowly petered out ever since the Rich's stopped persuing a team.  it wasn't an immediate reaction, more of a slow receeding of interest.

[ChileanSeaBass]

While an OHL team would be cool, I'm not sure it would work.  I think they're more interested in expanding the presence of the Jr. Sabres (OJHL).

Edited by ChileanSeaBass, 03 August 2012 - 10:34 AM.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

TrueBluePhD, on 03 August 2012 - 10:14 AM, said:

Do you think that's an economic issue, or a baseball interest / level of competitiveness issue?  .

You can get $5 tickets pretty much any night through promotions.

That was the old song they used to play after HR's back in the day they were supposedly in the hunt for a major league team which I quoted. They'd sell out almost every game.....until it was obvious Buffalo would never get a team, and it has been a downward slope since. Most games now you can sit wherever you want.

With the Sabres waiting list issue......it's the same idea. There is a perception now, especially after the 2006-07 run, that people don't want to miss out on something happening in the future. Much like people bought Bisons seasons tickets because they didn't want to miss out on MLB.

Larry Quinn is brilliant because he knows the psychology of this city. The variable pricing gimmick is great, because it is like an infomercial. "Get this set of steaknives...the cleaver....and the shish-ka-bob set.....all with a retail value of $159....for only $29.99"  As long as they renew, the Sabres can keep gapping away the window prices to make it look like you are getting a great deal and would hate to give up your seats. In reality, if there wasn't that "artificial demand" and fans went back to the traditional rate of season tickets based on team performance, I strongly feel that the current season ticket prices would be the window prices for every game, and although the Sabres would probably still see very strong renewals in the $20-$45 seats......the Club seats and high end seats would probably come down to a lower pricing point closer to $70 or so, and you would go to a traditional base of 13-14K or so with 5,000 seats available at the window for current season rates. The Sabres would still have good attendance, but it would be a more traditional pattern of the weekend and good teams selling out fast, and maybe 10-15 games not selling out. My estimate is that they would probably average off of a year like any of the past 5.....500-1,000 empty seats per game @ $60 average loss......and take a $20 haircut on 3500 seats or so. With their current structure.....in my opinion they are making an extra $4 to $5 million from where actual equilibrium is.

I give them lots of credit on the marketing front. They know their market and have devised a scheme to max it out.

That being said.....you can't project current rates of season ticket holders and waiting lists onto a new OHL team. It isn't demand to pay up for hockey.....it is demand to pay for the right to "not miss something great happening". I don't think a junior team in the area would get juices flowing...even though the area in general does love hockey.

[apuszczalowski]

I'm sure an OHL team would still draw a crowd to games with general hockey fans and families looking to get out but not being able to afford a Sabres game for the entire family. But I don't think they would attract enough to make it worth doing. As I said before, tehy would need a new arena for the team to play in, unless theirs one locally that could hold 5 about 5k a game. (Niagara was only given the Ice Dogs on the condition that the current arena (The Jack Gatecliff in St. Catharines) be a temporary one and a larger arena be built in a few years (working on that now). The FNC is too large for OHL and the arena would most likely operate at a loss, even if they sold out most games.

[weave]

apuszczalowski, on 03 August 2012 - 11:17 AM, said:

I'm sure an OHL team would still draw a crowd to games with general hockey fans and families looking to get out but not being able to afford a Sabres game for the entire family. But I don't think they would attract enough to make it worth doing. As I said before, tehy would need a new arena for the team to play in, unless theirs one locally that could hold 5 about 5k a game. (Niagara was only given the Ice Dogs on the condition that the current arena (The Jack Gatecliff in St. Catharines) be a temporary one and a larger arena be built in a few years (working on that now). The FNC is too large for OHL and the arena would most likely operate at a loss, even if they sold out most games.

As for using FNC, they would only have to cover their marginal costs (vending, ticket takers, costs only incurred if there is an actual event in progress) to make money.  Fixed costs are already covered by the permanent residents (Sabres, Bandits).  I bet it wouldn't take much of a crowd at all to make it worth doing money-wise.  But I don't think they would be able to draw much of a crowd anyway.  They might at first whent he team is new but I'm betting the novelty would wear off quickly enough.

[BuffaloSoldier2010]

shrader, on 03 August 2012 - 09:25 AM, said:

Ahhh, ok.  But here's the problem.  The Erie Otters play in Erie, PA.  Last time I checked, that's not in Canada.

No kidding? I had no idea there were any OHL teams or canadian juniors teams for that matter, in the states.  I thought the USHL was the best we had.

Then what are we waitin for!

Regarding and arena, I think they could make use of either the proposed practice facility of the arena.  Having both would be a convenient thing.  If the fans are over capacity at the auxiliary rink, send em to the Fn'C

[gohansrage]

Even if it made sense financially, the F'N center would be way too big.  It would ruin the atmosphere.

For example, Rochester had an indoor football team that used to play at the Main St Armory which held 3000 people.  The attendance for the first season was 2200 per game.  In a 3000 person arena, 2200 screaming lunatics created an insane atmosphere.

The next year they moved to the Blue Cross Arena which holds 10,000 people.  The same 2200 attended.  But in a 10000 person arena, 2200 people seems empty

[OHLAC]

The magic ingredient to OHL success at the box office is the 'Puck Bunny' demographic. If the Buffalo area is rich in 14-19 year old girls, an OHL team will be successful! Overall population means nothing - Mississauga and Brampton are part of the Greater Toronto Area with 6 million plus residents, yet both teams are near the bottom when it comes to attendance. Owen Sound is a city of just 21,000 and not near any other major centres - they draw decent crowds on a regular basis.

[shrader]

OHLAC, on 03 August 2012 - 01:59 PM, said:

The magic ingredient to OHL success at the box office is the 'Puck Bunny' demographic. If the Buffalo area is rich in 14-19 year old girls, an OHL team will be successful! Overall population means nothing - Mississauga and Brampton are part of the Greater Toronto Area with 6 million plus residents, yet both teams are near the bottom when it comes to attendance. Owen Sound is a city of just 21,000 and not near any other major centres - they draw decent crowds on a regular basis.

I can't be the only one wondering, but how did this thread catch your attention?

[OHLAC]

shrader, on 03 August 2012 - 02:17 PM, said:

I can't be the only one wondering, but how did this thread catch your attention?

It's my website that was quoted in the original post (OHL expansion poll) and the thread popped up on my stats page. Really entertaining thread - great distraction from work on a Friday!

Personally, I hope Buffalo does get a team in the near future (the Brampton franchise, maybe). What would you call the team? 'Jr. Sabres' lacks imagination and probably wouldn't be allowed unless the NHL Sabres own the team...

[Claude_Verret]

Ghost of Dwight Drane, on 03 August 2012 - 10:04 AM, said:

Hear that Bison Thunder.....
Feel that Bison beat........
Buffalo Baseball Bisons......
Stampede.....Stampede......Stampede..........

No

   Bring back The Butcher!!

edit:  Where are they now?   The Butcher...

http://www.buffalone...ticle774763.ece

Quote

Palmer, who grew up on the West Side, moved to Riverside after marrying his wife, Suzanne. They have a 20-year-old son, Robert Ray Palmer, named for the former Sabre after he was on the losing end of a fight in a televised game while the couple was deciding on a name.

Edited by Claude_Verret, 03 August 2012 - 02:44 PM.

[shrader]

OHLAC, on 03 August 2012 - 02:36 PM, said:

It's my website that was quoted in the original post (OHL expansion poll) and the thread popped up on my stats page. Really entertaining thread - great distraction from work on a Friday!

Personally, I hope Buffalo does get a team in the near future (the Brampton franchise, maybe). What would you call the team? 'Jr. Sabres' lacks imagination and probably wouldn't be allowed unless the NHL Sabres own the team...

Interesting stuff.  I don't have the slightest clue what type of things you see when you run your own page.

As far as a name, if it ever happened I bet you would get a lot of people pushing for the Bisons name due to history.  I doubt that would be possible though unless Bob Rich was in on the ownership (since he already owns those other Buffalo Bisons).

[apuszczalowski]

OHLAC, on 03 August 2012 - 01:59 PM, said:

The magic ingredient to OHL success at the box office is the 'Puck Bunny' demographic. If the Buffalo area is rich in 14-19 year old girls, an OHL team will be successful! Overall population means nothing - Mississauga and Brampton are part of the Greater Toronto Area with 6 million plus residents, yet both teams are near the bottom when it comes to attendance. Owen Sound is a city of just 21,000 and not near any other major centres - they draw decent crowds on a regular basis.

Now that just ruins it, Its just dirty and wrong to have "puck Bunnys" younger then legal age.........

Missisauga and brampton also have an NHL team next door in Toronto, Owen Sound does not. i don't know about the marlies attendance, but I could see it being decent because of Toronto having a bigger population with more diposable income willing to spend money to watch the Leafs future stars players

[OHLAC]

apuszczalowski, on 03 August 2012 - 03:14 PM, said:

Now that just ruins it, Its just dirty and wrong to have "puck Bunnys" younger then legal age.........

Missisauga and brampton also have an NHL team next door in Toronto, Owen Sound does not. i don't know about the marlies attendance, but I could see it being decent because of Toronto having a bigger population with more diposable income willing to spend money to watch the Leafs future stars players

On the same note - the Ottawa 67's are usually among the top three in attendance. The Plymouth Whalers and Windsor Spitfires both do pretty good along side the Red Wings.

I believe the Marlies are like the Jays - people will watch when they're winning.

[thesportsbuff]

OHLAC, on 03 August 2012 - 02:36 PM, said:

It's my website that was quoted in the original post (OHL expansion poll) and the thread popped up on my stats page. Really entertaining thread - great distraction from work on a Friday!

Personally, I hope Buffalo does get a team in the near future (the Brampton franchise, maybe). What would you call the team? 'Jr. Sabres' lacks imagination and probably wouldn't be allowed unless the NHL Sabres own the team...

... which is a very real possibility, with Mr. Pegula in town! But I agree, Jr. Sabres is lame.