211 replies to this topic

[Glass Case Of Emotion]

apuszczalowski, on 09 July 2012 - 10:08 AM, said:

Of course, those teams didn't win because of the goaltending. Having guys like Crosby/Malkin, Pronger/Niedermeyer/Selanne/Getzlaf, Kane/Toews/Sharp/Hossa, or Lidstrom/Chelios/Datsyuk/Draper/Zetterberg doesn't hurt when your goaltending is average (although its a tough call to say Osgood being backed up by Hasek is "Average goaltending", Osgood may not have been Elite, but I would call him better then just average)

Didn't Osgood/Hasek win the Jennings that year?...Yes, yes they did.

[drunken idiot]

apuszczalowski, on 09 July 2012 - 09:50 AM, said:

Has he? Luongo was in 1 Stanley Cup Finals, Miller was a McKee Staff infection and a delay of game penalty away from being in one (neither have a SC ring). Otherwise, Luongo has played in 14 more playoff games in his career. Both have similar winning percentages in the playoffs (32-29 for Lou, 25-22 for Miller), Luongo has a Save% of .916 while Millers is .917, Luongo has a gaa of 2.53 to Millers 2.46. Luongo has 5 career playoff shutouts in 61 games to Millers 3 in 47 games

So basically, the only accomplishment that he really has better then Miller is that he has been to and lost in the SC finals.

If you are going to given credit to a player for beating Miller in the Gold medal game, that credit goes to Crosby, not Luongo. Luongo may have walked away with a gold medal (Heck, Marc Andre Fluery walked away with one of those too and he wasn't even dressed for the final game), but Miller walked away with the tournament MVP

Yep Crosby caught Miller napping, and Ryan said as much, but the guy that made 34 of 36 saves for Canada must have been somebody other than Luongo, right?

Edited by Freakpop, 09 July 2012 - 10:36 AM.

[JJFIVEOH]

apuszczalowski, on 09 July 2012 - 10:08 AM, said:

Thats my point, the biggest problem people seem to have with Gerbe (and even Ennis sometimes) is that they are too small to play in the NHL. Some are ready to write Gerbe off right now after finishing his 1st full season on an NHL roster

Anytype of actual facts showing how he is a lockerroom cancer would be nice, not just your opinion (that theres some conspiracy that the team is afraid of upsetting him) considering there are facts that prove otherwise, like his teammates voting him team MVP multiple times and no one ever coming out to say that he is a problem (Never heard a former teammate say anything bad about him either)

Of course, those teams didn't win because of the goaltending. Having guys like Crosby/Malkin, Pronger/Niedermeyer/Selanne/Getzlaf, Kane/Toews/Sharp/Hossa, or Lidstrom/Chelios/Datsyuk/Draper/Zetterberg doesn't hurt when your goaltending is average (although its a tough call to say Osgood being backed up by Hasek is "Average goaltending", Osgood may not have been Elite, but I would call him better then just average)

I don't have any facts. I mentioned that in my OP. Does anybody have any facts that Roy was a cancer in the locker room? Or does everybody just go on some rumor that a certain player on the team said he's bad in the locker room? The fact that everybody kisses Miller's ass should be proof enough that they're afraid to do or say anything bad. If I were in the locker room and he called me out in a post game interview, I'd have a little talk with him. If he's going to call me out, I'm going to make sure he'd better be ready for me to call him out.

[TrueBluePhD]

JJFIVEOH, on 09 July 2012 - 10:34 AM, said:

I don't have any facts. I mentioned that in my OP. Does anybody have any facts that Roy was a cancer in the locker room? Or does everybody just go on some rumor that a certain player on the team said he's bad in the locker room? The fact that everybody kisses Miller's ass should be proof enough that they're afraid to do or say anything bad. If I were in the locker room and he called me out in a post game interview, I'd have a little talk with him. If he's going to call me out, I'm going to make sure he'd better be ready for me to call him out.

[apuszczalowski]

JJFIVEOH, on 09 July 2012 - 10:34 AM, said:

I don't have any facts. I mentioned that in my OP. Does anybody have any facts that Roy was a cancer in the locker room? Or does everybody just go on some rumor that a certain player on the team said he's bad in the locker room? The fact that everybody kisses Miller's ass should be proof enough that they're afraid to do or say anything bad. If I were in the locker room and he called me out in a post game interview, I'd have a little talk with him. If he's going to call me out, I'm going to make sure he'd better be ready for me to call him out.

Whos kissing his ass?
You just assume that everybodys afraid of upsetting him. Who has he called out in post game interviews? As was said many times before here, he may mention a play where something happened and someone missed something, but he doesn't come out and say things like "player 'X' cost us the game by giving up the puck in our end" or "If only player 'Y' would have done this, they never would have had a chance to score". Thats throwing someone under the bus, and I don't think I have ever heard that from him.

You know why no one has called him out in public before, ITS BECAUSE HE HASN'T CALLED ANYONE OUT WHERE THEY FEEL THAT HE WAS WRONG ABOUT WHAT HE SAID. Of course the only way you can continue to try and portray Miller as anything but liked in the lockerroom is by assuming he is calling players out, and coming up with a conspiracy theory that they vote him MVP because they are afraid of him in the lockerroom.

Were there any facts about Roy being a lockerroom cancer? Nothing definite, no. But calling out your coach at the end of the season, and your team playing better when your out of the lineup are more indicators that he wasn't as well like in the lockerroom. Of course I could always come up with some assumptions and conspiracy theories to use, those are just as good as facts, right?

[RazielSabre]

Freakpop, on 09 July 2012 - 10:34 AM, said:

Yep Crosby caught Miller napping, and Ryan said as much, but the guy that made 34 of 36 saves for Canada must have been somebody other than Luongo, right?

I'm not getting involved, I just want to see the quote out of interest.

Quote/link please.

[Spndnchz]

[BarDown]

spndnchz, on 09 July 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

OUT-standing!  That should be the end of this discussion.

[d4rksabre]

spndnchz, on 09 July 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

Love it.

Less of a Miller highlight reel and more of an Awful Defensive Plays lowlight reel.

[Spndnchz]

d4rksabre, on 09 July 2012 - 11:56 AM, said:

Love it.

Less of a Miller highlight reel and more of an Awful Defensive Plays lowlight reel.

So you see what I did there.

[dEnnis the Menace]

d4rksabre, on 09 July 2012 - 11:56 AM, said:

Love it.

Less of a Miller highlight reel and more of an Awful Defensive Plays lowlight reel.

spndnchz, on 09 July 2012 - 11:57 AM, said:

So you see what I did there.

yupp, and yupp.  well done

[louC]

without Miller, Ruff would have a .333 win percentage as a coach.

[shrader]

apuszczalowski, on 09 July 2012 - 09:50 AM, said:

So basically, the only accomplishment that he really has better then Miller is that he has been to and lost in the SC finals.

Can we update that to say that Luongo essentially single-handedly lost that SC final?

[d4rksabre]

shrader, on 09 July 2012 - 01:20 PM, said:

Can we update that to say that Luongo essentially single-handedly lost that SC final?

If there's one thing I think I can assert with relative certainty, it's that while Miller has thrown some clunkers, he's never single-handedly cost the Sabres anything in the way that Luongo has Vancouver.

Miller has taken a lot of blame for not coming up big in situations where our team as a whole was floundering in grand fashion, but I don't think he's ever been the sole cause of any Sabres collapse.

[Glass Case Of Emotion]

d4rksabre, on 09 July 2012 - 02:13 PM, said:

If there's one thing I think I can assert with relative certainty, it's that while Miller has thrown some clunkers, he's never single-handedly cost the Sabres anything in the way that Luongo has Vancouver.

Miller has taken a lot of blame for not coming up big in situations where our team as a whole was floundering in grand fashion, but I don't think he's ever been the sole cause of any Sabres collapse.

By choosing to get Steamrolled by a d-bag bruin winger, he singlehandedly derailed the entire 11-12 season.

[dEnnis the Menace]

LastPommerFan, on 09 July 2012 - 02:16 PM, said:

By choosing to get Steamrolled by a d-bag bruin winger, he singlehandedly derailed the entire 11-12 season.

[d4rksabre]

LastPommerFan, on 09 July 2012 - 02:16 PM, said:

By choosing to get Steamrolled by a d-bag bruin winger, he singlehandedly derailed the entire 11-12 season.

Yes, clearly that was a choice.

[Sabres Fan In NS]

shrader, on 09 July 2012 - 01:20 PM, said:

Can we update that to say that Luongo essentially single-handedly lost that SC final?

d4rksabre, on 09 July 2012 - 02:13 PM, said:

If there's one thing I think I can assert with relative certainty, it's that while Miller has thrown some clunkers, he's never single-handedly cost the Sabres anything in the way that Luongo has Vancouver.

Miller has taken a lot of blame for not coming up big in situations where our team as a whole was floundering in grand fashion, but I don't think he's ever been the sole cause of any Sabres collapse.

I for one will never buy into this theory that Luongo cost Vancouver the cup.

Sure, he didn't play well in game 7, but neither did anyone else.

IMO, what cost Vancouver the cup was their lack of an answer to the relentless physical play, not only of the Bruins, but throughout the playoffs.  They managed to have enough talent to reach the finals and take it to 7 games, but the toll of the entire playoffs reached the breaking point in game 7 of the final.

Why do you think they got Kassian.  Sure, it didn't work out this year, but they needed to address their physical play issues, especially for the playoffs.  It very well may pay off for them.

It's also clear that the Sabres are addressing those issues as well.

Edited by Sabres Fan In NS, 09 July 2012 - 02:24 PM.

[Glass Case Of Emotion]

d4rksabre, on 09 July 2012 - 02:21 PM, said:

Yes, clearly that was a choice.

[TrueBluePhD]

Sabres Fan In NS, on 09 July 2012 - 02:21 PM, said:

I for one will never buy into this theory that Luongo cost Vancouver the cup.

Sure, he didn't play well in game 7, but neither did anyone else.

IMO, what cost Vancouver the cup was their lack of an answer to the relentless physical play, not only of the Bruins, but throughout the playoffs.  They managed to have enough talent to reach the finals and take it to 7 games, but the toll of the entire playoffs reached the breaking point in game 7 of the final.

Why do you think they got Kassian.  Sure, it didn't work out this year, but they needed to address their physical play issues, especially for the playoffs.  It very well may pay off for them.

It's also clear that the Sabres are addressing those issues as well.

If Kesler didn't have a bum hip in the Finals, I still think they might have won, in spite of everything else....I mean they did get to game 7.  But Kesler was clearly shot, and just couldn't give the team what they needed from him.

[apuszczalowski]

Sabres Fan In NS, on 09 July 2012 - 02:21 PM, said:

I for one will never buy into this theory that Luongo cost Vancouver the cup.

Sure, he didn't play well in game 7, but neither did anyone else.

IMO, what cost Vancouver the cup was their lack of an answer to the relentless physical play, not only of the Bruins, but throughout the playoffs.  They managed to have enough talent to reach the finals and take it to 7 games, but the toll of the entire playoffs reached the breaking point in game 7 of the final.

Why do you think they got Kassian.  Sure, it didn't work out this year, but they needed to address their physical play issues, especially for the playoffs.  It very well may pay off for them.

It's also clear that the Sabres are addressing those issues as well.

I also don't agree that Luongo cost them the cup. I wouldn't say he helped as much as you would have wanted/expected, but it wasn't all his fault

[JJFIVEOH]

apuszczalowski, on 09 July 2012 - 10:50 AM, said:

Whos kissing his ass?
You just assume that everybodys afraid of upsetting him. Who has he called out in post game interviews? As was said many times before here, he may mention a play where something happened and someone missed something, but he doesn't come out and say things like "player 'X' cost us the game by giving up the puck in our end" or "If only player 'Y' would have done this, they never would have had a chance to score". Thats throwing someone under the bus, and I don't think I have ever heard that from him.

You know why no one has called him out in public before, ITS BECAUSE HE HASN'T CALLED ANYONE OUT WHERE THEY FEEL THAT HE WAS WRONG ABOUT WHAT HE SAID. Of course the only way you can continue to try and portray Miller as anything but liked in the lockerroom is by assuming he is calling players out, and coming up with a conspiracy theory that they vote him MVP because they are afraid of him in the lockerroom.

Were there any facts about Roy being a lockerroom cancer? Nothing definite, no. But calling out your coach at the end of the season, and your team playing better when your out of the lineup are more indicators that he wasn't as well like in the lockerroom. Of course I could always come up with some assumptions and conspiracy theories to use, those are just as good as facts, right?

Stafford praised his coach highly at the end of the season. Yet everybody accuses him of being a core cancer. So what's your point?

I have a question for you, what point are you trying to get across to me by capitalizing your one statement? Did I say otherwise? No..... in fact I mentioned a couple of times where I liked the fact that Miller points out who did wrong after almost every single game, did I not? It's the fact that nobody else has the nads to do the same to Miller.

[dEnnis the Menace]

JJFIVEOH, on 09 July 2012 - 03:49 PM, said:

Stafford praised his coach highly at the end of the season. Yet everybody accuses him of being a core cancer. So what's your point?

I have a question for you, what point are you trying to get across to me by capitalizing your one statement? Did I say otherwise? No..... in fact I mentioned a couple of times where I liked the fact that Miller points out who did wrong after almost every single game, did I not? It's the fact that nobody else has the nads to do the same to Miller.

Most everyone sees him as the life preserver of the team in my opinion.  They always say, "we left Millsie hanging out there" or "we missed our assignment, leaving that guy all alone with Millsie."  They know when they screw up, Miller is going to have his saves, and his misses, and that there's no need to call him out when he misses when they screwed up to begin with.  It's not the team's job to call him out when he has a bad game though, as Ruff does that amply well (as does Pegula).  I wouldn't call out my goaltender on an off night when he spends 90% of the rest of his time bailing my ass out like Miller does with this team.

[JJFIVEOH]

dEnnis the Menace, on 09 July 2012 - 03:54 PM, said:

Most everyone sees him as the life preserver of the team in my opinion.  They always say, "we left Millsie hanging out there" or "we missed our assignment, leaving that guy all alone with Millsie."  They know when they screw up, Miller is going to have his saves, and his misses, and that there's no need to call him out when he misses when they screwed up to begin with.  It's not the team's job to call him out when he has a bad game though, as Ruff does that amply well (as does Pegula).  I wouldn't call out my goaltender on an off night when he spends 90% of the rest of his time bailing my ass out like Miller does with this team.

He doesn't bail anybody out any more than the rest of the goaltenders in the league. With the exception of maybe St. Louis, most goaltenders are put on the spot. There were plenty of games during the season where Miller was flat out awful and could have won had he played a few "average" games. Did he step up at the end of the season? Sure he did. But his first half of the year was so terrible that even the tear he went on at the end of the season could only muster an average season overall. Disagree with me all you want, but with the improvements that have been made to this team, using Miller to pick up an all star forward would give this team a huge jump and the Sabres wouldn't have to rely on a goaltender. Seriously........... Myers or Miller as trade bait for an all star forward? Can you honestly tell me you'd rather get rid of Myers over Miller to pick up an all-star forward?

Let's go back to around mid-season and see what people were saying about Miller. Let's go back to earlier in the season when everybody was saying nobody wanted to stick up for Miller when he get pummeled by Lucic. Let's go back and look at the excitement and the extra jump in the team when Enroth carried us to the playoffs.

Edited by JJFIVEOH, 09 July 2012 - 04:04 PM.

[TrueBluePhD]

JJFIVEOH, on 09 July 2012 - 04:02 PM, said:

He doesn't bail anybody out any more than the rest of the goaltenders in the league. With the exception of maybe St. Louis, most goaltenders are put on the spot. There were plenty of games during the season where Miller was flat out awful and could have won had he played a few "average" games. Did he step up at the end of the season? Sure he did. But his first half of the year was so terrible that even the tear he went on at the end of the season could only muster an average season overall. Disagree with me all you want, but with the improvements that have been made to this team, using Miller to pick up an all star forward would give this team a huge jump and the Sabres wouldn't have to rely on a goaltender. Seriously........... Myers or Miller as trade bait for an all star forward? Can you honestly tell me you'd rather get rid of Myers over Miller to pick up an all-star forward?

Let's go back to around mid-season and see what people were saying about Miller. Let's go back to earlier in the season when everybody was saying nobody wanted to stick up for Miller when he get pummeled by Lucic. Let's go back and look at the excitement and the extra jump in the team when Enroth carried us to the playoffs.

At some point you're going to apply your analysis to this hypothetical trade, and realize nobody is giving an all-star forward for Miller.  And if they are, then you need to re-think your analysis.  You can't simultaneously say he's a grossly overpaid average goaltender (who also happens to be a locker room cancer), then turn around and suggest he'll get us an all-star of a high enough caliber so we don't need to rely on goaltending.

Edited by TrueBluePhD, 09 July 2012 - 04:08 PM.

[JJFIVEOH]

TrueBluePhD, on 09 July 2012 - 04:07 PM, said:

At some point you're going to apply your analysis to this hypothetical trade, and realize nobody is giving an all-star forward for Miller.  And if they are, then you need to re-think your analysis.  You can't simultaneously say he's a grossly overpaid average goaltender (who also happens to be a locker room cancer), then turn around and suggest he'll get us an all-star of a high enough caliber so we don't need to rely on goaltending.

Maybe not one for one, but he sure could be used as the key component to get an all star forward. Would you rather give up Myers or one of our first round picks? Luongo is grossly overpaid and highly overrated, he's still being rumored to get traded. There are plenty of teams willing to dish out big $$ for a couple of years because they have the room. The fact Miller only has 2 years left on his contract is appealing to teams in that they may not have to deal with it in two years...... as opposed to Luongo who has 63 years left on his. I've been seeing a lot of posts where people think the Sabres are playing to be contenders in a couple of years, no immediately. Boy, that sure would suck when we come to find out Miller really doesn't want to be in BFLO and he doesn't re-sign with the team when he becomes a UFA and end up getting absolutely nothing in return..... all because we kept him for a couple of years when people didn't think DR was trying to build an overnight contender.

[d4rksabre]

JJFIVEOH, on 09 July 2012 - 04:02 PM, said:

He doesn't bail anybody out any more than the rest of the goaltenders in the league. With the exception of maybe St. Louis, most goaltenders are put on the spot. There were plenty of games during the season where Miller was flat out awful and could have won had he played a few "average" games. Did he step up at the end of the season? Sure he did. But his first half of the year was so terrible that even the tear he went on at the end of the season could only muster an average season overall. Disagree with me all you want, but with the improvements that have been made to this team, using Miller to pick up an all star forward would give this team a huge jump and the Sabres wouldn't have to rely on a goaltender. Seriously........... Myers or Miller as trade bait for an all star forward? Can you honestly tell me you'd rather get rid of Myers over Miller to pick up an all-star forward?

Let's go back to around mid-season and see what people were saying about Miller. Let's go back to earlier in the season when everybody was saying nobody wanted to stick up for Miller when he get pummeled by Lucic. Let's go back and look at the excitement and the extra jump in the team when Enroth carried us to the playoffs.

Wrong. Completely wrong.

[drnkirishone]

the lack of logic on display here is amazing

[JJFIVEOH]

d4rksabre, on 09 July 2012 - 04:51 PM, said:

Wrong. Completely wrong.

You need to watch some other games from now on besides just the Sabres.

[d4rksabre]

JJFIVEOH, on 09 July 2012 - 07:26 PM, said:

You need to watch some other games from now on besides just the Sabres.

I watch any and all hockey that I can get my hands on. Women's college hockey, juniors, AHL, NHL, whatever.

You. Are. Wrong.

[RazielSabre]

JJFIVEOH, on 09 July 2012 - 04:02 PM, said:

He doesn't bail anybody out any more than the rest of the goaltenders in the league. With the exception of maybe St. Louis, most goaltenders are put on the spot. There were plenty of games during the season where Miller was flat out awful and could have won had he played a few "average" games. Did he step up at the end of the season? Sure he did. But his first half of the year was so terrible that even the tear he went on at the end of the season could only muster an average season overall. Disagree with me all you want, but with the improvements that have been made to this team, using Miller to pick up an all star forward would give this team a huge jump and the Sabres wouldn't have to rely on a goaltender. Seriously........... Myers or Miller as trade bait for an all star forward? Can you honestly tell me you'd rather get rid of Myers over Miller to pick up an all-star forward?

Let's go back to around mid-season and see what people were saying about Miller. Let's go back to earlier in the season when everybody was saying nobody wanted to stick up for Miller when he get pummeled by Lucic. Let's go back and look at the excitement and the extra jump in the team when Enroth carried us to the playoffs.

At some point you will have to admit you dislike Ryan Miller for no good reason. Posts like this are just saying that anyway.

[dEnnis the Menace]

TrueBluePhD, on 09 July 2012 - 04:07 PM, said:

At some point you're going to apply your analysis to this hypothetical trade, and realize nobody is giving an all-star forward for Miller.  And if they are, then you need to re-think your analysis.  You can't simultaneously say he's a grossly overpaid average goaltender (who also happens to be a locker room cancer), then turn around and suggest he'll get us an all-star of a high enough caliber so we don't need to rely on goaltending.

Exactly. You can't trade your trash for someone else's treasure.

JJFIVEOH, on 09 July 2012 - 04:30 PM, said:

Maybe not one for one, but he sure could be used as the key component to get an all star forward. Would you rather give up Myers or one of our first round picks? Luongo is grossly overpaid and highly overrated, he's still being rumored to get traded. There are plenty of teams willing to dish out big $$ for a couple of years because they have the room. The fact Miller only has 2 years left on his contract is appealing to teams in that they may not have to deal with it in two years...... as opposed to Luongo who has 63 years left on his. I've been seeing a lot of posts where people think the Sabres are playing to be contenders in a couple of years, no immediately. Boy, that sure would suck when we come to find out Miller really doesn't want to be in BFLO and he doesn't re-sign with the team when he becomes a UFA and end up getting absolutely nothing in return..... all because we kept him for a couple of years when people didn't think DR was trying to build an overnight contender.

Yes, Luongo is getting traded, but who said Vancouver is getting something great back?  I highly doubt they get more than a couple draft picks or a draft pick and a serviceable player.  IMHO, a goaltender isn't going to net you a star forward, unless you add a ton more pieces to the trade, at which point, you're getting hosed.

JJFIVEOH, on 09 July 2012 - 04:02 PM, said:

He doesn't bail anybody out any more than the rest of the goaltenders in the league. With the exception of maybe St. Louis, most goaltenders are put on the spot. There were plenty of games during the season where Miller was flat out awful and could have won had he played a few "average" games. Did he step up at the end of the season? Sure he did. But his first half of the year was so terrible that even the tear he went on at the end of the season could only muster an average season overall. Disagree with me all you want, but with the improvements that have been made to this team, using Miller to pick up an all star forward would give this team a huge jump and the Sabres wouldn't have to rely on a goaltender. Seriously........... Myers or Miller as trade bait for an all star forward? Can you honestly tell me you'd rather get rid of Myers over Miller to pick up an all-star forward?

Let's go back to around mid-season and see what people were saying about Miller. Let's go back to earlier in the season when everybody was saying nobody wanted to stick up for Miller when he get pummeled by Lucic. Let's go back and look at the excitement and the extra jump in the team when Enroth carried us to the playoffs.

Miller bails this team out time and time again.  There are so many examples from the last 5 seasons, it's ridiculous.  Yeah, he was terrible for a long stretch there, but that happens to coincide with getting railed by Milan Lucic, coming up with a concussion and whiplash, and being thrust back into starting too soon.  It was also his second concussion or so within a year (remember the concussion(s) from taking a shot to the helmet the season prior?).  It takes time to come back from a concussion, especially when, as a goalie, 75% of your game is mental.

I'll admit, I was high on Enroth for a while, but that was a 'what are you doing for me right now?' high.  and he was winning at the end of that season.  After watching his positioning, and the way he was playing last season, I'm more worried about him than high on him now.

I think right now, Miller is a necessity on the team.  Goaltending isn't our problem right now, but if we ship Miller off, it becomes one.  Whether you like him or not, we don't have a starting NHL caliber goaltender in the wings.  Enroth cannot withstand the grind of a full season IMO, and none of our AHL goalies are ready.  We have an ABUNDANCE of defensemen/d prospects that we can trade without losing too much there, and that wouldn't set us back.  Shipping Miller off equates to 1 step forward, 2 steps back in my mind.

d4rksabre, on 09 July 2012 - 04:51 PM, said:

Wrong. Completely wrong.

thank you

[JJFIVEOH]

d4rksabre, on 09 July 2012 - 09:49 PM, said:

I watch any and all hockey that I can get my hands on. Women's college hockey, juniors, AHL, NHL, whatever.

You. Are. Wrong.

RazielSabre, on 10 July 2012 - 03:17 AM, said:

At some point you will have to admit you dislike Ryan Miller for no good reason. Posts like this are just saying that anyway.

dEnnis the Menace, on 10 July 2012 - 07:35 AM, said:

Exactly. You can't trade your trash for someone else's treasure.



Yes, Luongo is getting traded, but who said Vancouver is getting something great back?  I highly doubt they get more than a couple draft picks or a draft pick and a serviceable player.  IMHO, a goaltender isn't going to net you a star forward, unless you add a ton more pieces to the trade, at which point, you're getting hosed.



Miller bails this team out time and time again.  There are so many examples from the last 5 seasons, it's ridiculous.  Yeah, he was terrible for a long stretch there, but that happens to coincide with getting railed by Milan Lucic, coming up with a concussion and whiplash, and being thrust back into starting too soon.  It was also his second concussion or so within a year (remember the concussion(s) from taking a shot to the helmet the season prior?).  It takes time to come back from a concussion, especially when, as a goalie, 75% of your game is mental.

I'll admit, I was high on Enroth for a while, but that was a 'what are you doing for me right now?' high.  and he was winning at the end of that season.  After watching his positioning, and the way he was playing last season, I'm more worried about him than high on him now.

I think right now, Miller is a necessity on the team.  Goaltending isn't our problem right now, but if we ship Miller off, it becomes one.  Whether you like him or not, we don't have a starting NHL caliber goaltender in the wings.  Enroth cannot withstand the grind of a full season IMO, and none of our AHL goalies are ready.  We have an ABUNDANCE of defensemen/d prospects that we can trade without losing too much there, and that wouldn't set us back.  Shipping Miller off equates to 1 step forward, 2 steps back in my mind.



thank you

If you say so. I can't wait for the 'I told you so.....................'.

Quick question, with all the guidelines, rules, medical clearances, extensive tests.................. how could Miller have come back too early from a concussion? How could he have had a concussion from taking a shot to the head and be right back out there playing? Can't anybody connect the dots and see that he uses that as an excuse until he starts playing well? We have Enroth who finished with better numbers than Miller, why was Miller starting when he wasn't up to par? Funny, these 'post concussion' issues never seem to pop up until after the fact; but the doctors let him play?

[Arcsabresfan41]

JJFIVEOH, on 10 July 2012 - 08:54 AM, said:

Can't anybody connect the dots and see that he uses that as an excuse until he starts playing well?

Not saying he didn't, but I didn't hear Miller ever say that he came back too early from a concussion, and that was why he played poorly. Could you maybe provide link/video/source to that please?

[dEnnis the Menace]

Arcsabresfan41, on 10 July 2012 - 09:12 AM, said:

Not saying he didn't, but I didn't hear Miller ever say that he came back too early from a concussion, and that was why he played poorly. Could you maybe provide link/video/source to that please?

He never used the excuse himself, but it was widely believed that it was the reason he was so off (now here is where I am using opinion(s) rather than fact(s)).  I've never seen a goalie be so out of touch with everything for a long stretch like that.  The guidelines measure whether or not you test to the level of your base exam, so if you have a low base exam (unlike Pominville who had a high base exam), it's easier for Dr's to say 'yeah, mental capacity is there, looks fine.'  The symptoms may not be as apparent any more, but it will still make you second guess what you are doing, and slow you down a step or two.  A lot of broadcasters/analysts even said Miller didn't look the same after the incident for a while.

Enroth's numbers were not better than Millers, in fact, they were worse other than his save %, which was .917, while Miller's was .916...what does that equate to? 1 goal over the course of the season?.  Enroth's GAA was 2.70, Miller's 2.55.  Enroth had 1 shutout over 23 games, Miller had 6 all season, and he even posted back to back shutouts carrying the team against teams we should not have beaten at the time.  Enroth also had a 8-11-4 record, no? Real game stealer there.  Enroth didn't steal us any games, nor did he even win a game after November, when Miller went down.  I for one am not ready for him to take over the starting job.

[thanes16]

Miller was +10 in wins (31-21) and had a 2.55 gaa. Enroth was -3 in wins (8-11) and had a 2.70 gaa. Not a mathematician, but I believe Miller had the better numbers.

Edited by thanes16, 10 July 2012 - 09:35 AM.

[dEnnis the Menace]

thanes16, on 10 July 2012 - 09:33 AM, said:

Miller was +10 in wins (31-21) and had a 2.55 gaa. Enroth was -3 in wins (8-11) and had a 2.77 gaa. Not a mathematician, but I believe Miller had the better numbers.

I don't see where these mythical "Enroth had better numbers" stats are coming from! Like I pointed out in my post, the only difference was .001 in save percentage, equating to maybe 1 goal, which doesn't change the course of this season.  Like you, I'm no mathematician, but I think the numbers tell the truth.

[JJFIVEOH]

dEnnis the Menace, on 10 July 2012 - 09:36 AM, said:

I don't see where these mythical "Enroth had better numbers" stats are coming from! Like I pointed out in my post, the only difference was .001 in save percentage, equating to maybe 1 goal, which doesn't change the course of this season.  Like you, I'm no mathematician, but I think the numbers tell the truth.

dEnnis the Menace, on 10 July 2012 - 09:29 AM, said:

He never used the excuse himself, but it was widely believed that it was the reason he was so off (now here is where I am using opinion(s) rather than fact(s)).  I've never seen a goalie be so out of touch with everything for a long stretch like that.  The guidelines measure whether or not you test to the level of your base exam, so if you have a low base exam (unlike Pominville who had a high base exam), it's easier for Dr's to say 'yeah, mental capacity is there, looks fine.'  The symptoms may not be as apparent any more, but it will still make you second guess what you are doing, and slow you down a step or two.  A lot of broadcasters/analysts even said Miller didn't look the same after the incident for a while.

Enroth's numbers were not better than Millers, in fact, they were worse other than his save %, which was .917, while Miller's was .916...what does that equate to? 1 goal over the course of the season?.  Enroth's GAA was 2.70, Miller's 2.55.  Enroth had 1 shutout over 23 games, Miller had 6 all season, and he even posted back to back shutouts carrying the team against teams we should not have beaten at the time.  Enroth also had a 8-11-4 record, no? Real game stealer there.  Enroth didn't steal us any games, nor did he even win a game after November, when Miller went down.  I for one am not ready for him to take over the starting job.

Miller had the benefit of a healthy lineup and a surging team. It took that incredible run he made JUST to get up to Enroth's save % and still end up with another average year.

Enroth was a game changer when he had a healthy lineup in front of him too............. remember the playoff run two years ago?

[Sabres Fan In NS]

Beware when you feed the _ _ _ _ _ _.  They will bite the hand that feeds them everytime.

[TrueBluePhD]

JJFIVEOH, on 10 July 2012 - 09:40 AM, said:

Miller had the benefit of a healthy lineup and a surging team. It took that incredible run he made JUST to get up to Enroth's save % and still end up with another average year.

Enroth was a game changer when he had a healthy lineup in front of him too............. remember the playoff run two years ago?

...and when he was a total unknown, before teams had any film on him or any clue about his tendencies/weaknesses.