1317 replies to this topic

[shrader]

TrueBluePhD, on 09 July 2012 - 04:03 PM, said:

Basically this is how I felt.  I expected a shallow talent pool would accelerate things, and also serve to kick the trade market into gear as teams looked to alternate routes to improve/turnover their roster.  Then after Parise/Suter signed, I expected the teams that missed out would also help the trade market take shape.  Clearly, none of this has happened.  Boring.

The whole weak class is really about the current expiring CBA (or has it expired already).  There's so much incentive to sign these crazy long term deals before reaching free agency.

Edited by shrader, 09 July 2012 - 08:59 PM.

[deluca67]

We all know Semin has flaws. If he didn't he would have a contract somewhere for about $8 mil a year.  Eleven's objections aside, neither Stafford or any other Sabre forward, has the offensive talent Semin has. I'm willing to weigh that talent against the flaws in game and character. There is a price out there that I would feel comfortable with. I would go $15 mil over three years with a breakdown of $6 mil the first year, $5 mil the second and $4 mil the third year. IMO, that is a big investment in a elite talent that can really take the team forward if it pays off.

[Eleven]

TrueBluePhD, on 09 July 2012 - 08:35 PM, said:

He hasn't been a regular linemate of Ovechkin since 08-09.  In 09-10, Semin's best statistical year, his most frequent teammate was Laich, followed by Backstrom (yes not chopped liver, but still only with him 42% of the time versus Ovechkin who was with Backstrom 84% of the time).  He was only with Ovechkin 33% of the time that season.  It's more than just playing with better teammates...and you'd also have to consider if he was with Backstrom/Ovechkin, he's facing tougher competition than Stafford traditionally faces.

Fine.  I still don't want him here.

[TrueBluePhD]

Eleven, on 09 July 2012 - 09:02 PM, said:

Fine.  I still don't want him here.

At least you're consistent.  I don't want him here either, especially not for a significant term, but I think there are some non-ridiculous arguments for adding him.

[sabres13]

Semins a great player statistically but his attitude is what the sabres want to get away from. That's why I think he will sign with either red wings or pens.

Or KHL for the money.

[qwksndmonster]

Semin's a decent player with a lot of courage.  You can always use more spunk on your team.

[Eleven]

qwksndmonster, on 09 July 2012 - 10:18 PM, said:

Semin's a decent player with a lot of courage.  You can always use more spunk on your team.

Ok.  Let's let quicksand's joke be the last.  They're all funny, but seriously, we do not need that kind of spunk.

[nfreeman]

DeLuca67, on 09 July 2012 - 09:01 PM, said:

We all know Semin has flaws. If he didn't he would have a contract somewhere for about $8 mil a year.  Eleven's objections aside, neither Stafford or any other Sabre forward, has the offensive talent Semin has. I'm willing to weigh that talent against the flaws in game and character. There is a price out there that I would feel comfortable with. I would go $15 mil over three years with a breakdown of $6 mil the first year, $5 mil the second and $4 mil the third year. IMO, that is a big investment in a elite talent that can really take the team forward if it pays off.

But what about the substantial dropoff in production over the past 2 seasons?  His career arc is more Brad Boyes right now than bobby Ryan.

I'm not in for more than a 2-year deal.

[Bullwinkle III]

Eleven, on 09 July 2012 - 09:02 PM, said:

Fine.  I still don't want him here.

Plus he sucks in the playoffs.

[RazielSabre]

Eleven, on 09 July 2012 - 08:25 PM, said:

I am doing neither.  Neither is more talented, and neither has shown a bit of freaking heart.  They are directly comparable.  Stafford?  TONS of talent.  No heart.  Semin?  Same way.

Ok I was with you until this point. Semin is an absolute talent, but he just cant be bothered to use it most of the time. Stafford has some talent and is willing to coast, but his attitude isn't destructive. Just lazy.

[deluca67]

nfreeman, on 09 July 2012 - 10:38 PM, said:

But what about the substantial dropoff in production over the past 2 seasons?  His career arc is more Brad Boyes right now than bobby Ryan.

I'm not in for more than a 2-year deal.

I would be a little more concerned about Semin never playing a full season. There are tons of concerns surrounding Semin.

[Spndnchz]

Not confirmed:  Semin one year deal with Pens.

[RazielSabre]

spndnchz, on 10 July 2012 - 07:44 AM, said:

Not confirmed:  Semin one year deal with Pens.

I thought their issue was keeping the flyers from scoring, not scoring more themselves?

[d4rksabre]

Interesting article on Semin

http://www.anguscert...the-10-percent/

[Glass Case Of Emotion]

d4rksabre, on 10 July 2012 - 07:57 AM, said:

Interesting article on Semin

http://www.anguscert...the-10-percent/

NSFW?

[apuszczalowski]

RazielSabre, on 10 July 2012 - 07:49 AM, said:

I thought their issue was keeping the flyers from scoring, not scoring more themselves?

Well, If you can't stop them from scoring, the second best thing to do is just score more yourself...................

[dEnnis the Menace]

apuszczalowski, on 10 July 2012 - 08:33 AM, said:

Well, If you can't stop them from scoring, the second best thing to do is just score more yourself...................

That worked well in the playoffs, now didn't it?

[weave]

d4rksabre, on 10 July 2012 - 07:57 AM, said:

Interesting article on Semin

http://www.anguscert...the-10-percent/

Wow.  Interesting article.  Sort of makes DeLuca's point too.

[nfreeman]

DeLuca67, on 10 July 2012 - 06:19 AM, said:

I would be a little more concerned about Semin never playing a full season. There are tons of concerns surrounding Semin.

True, and all the more reason not to commit for more than 2 years (and it appears this concern is widespread among NHL GMs).

[d4rksabre]

weave, on 10 July 2012 - 09:15 AM, said:

Wow.  Interesting article.  Sort of makes DeLuca's point too.

Yup. I thought it was very well put together.

I still don't want Semin here, but if you're looking for positives...

[nfreeman]

weave, on 10 July 2012 - 09:15 AM, said:

Wow.  Interesting article.  Sort of makes DeLuca's point too.

d4rksabre, on 10 July 2012 - 09:18 AM, said:

Yup. I thought it was very well put together.

I still don't want Semin here, but if you're looking for positives...

Just read it and I agree.  My bottom line though is that he's not right for a team that still has suspect mental toughness.  The highly paid guys that the team relies on can't be spotty effort guys.  That leads to guys like the departed #9 "putting up numbers" in the regular season and then the team checking out early in the spring.

If they can get him for 2 years, it will be obvious to everyone that he had to accept that deal because of his flaws, and that he's an accessory and not a key guy.  In that situation I can see it working.  But not if he gets a contract that indicates that he's an important part of the team.  Then we're right back to a Roy situation, in which the player is, IMHO, a net negative despite contributing points.

[d4rksabre]

nfreeman, on 10 July 2012 - 09:29 AM, said:

Just read it and I agree.  My bottom line though is that he's not right for a team that still has suspect mental toughness.  The highly paid guys that the team relies on can't be spotty effort guys.  That leads to guys like the departed #9 "putting up numbers" in the regular season and then the team checking out early in the spring.

If they can get him for 2 years, it will be obvious to everyone that he had to accept that deal because of his flaws, and that he's an accessory and not a key guy.  In that situation I can see it working.  But not if he gets a contract that indicates that he's an important part of the team.  Then we're right back to a Roy situation, in which the player is, IMHO, a net negative despite contributing points.

Right.

I'd rather just plug some kids into the lineup and see what they can give us. Even if it's a tough year, it builds chemistry and character, things this team sorely lacks and that you can't fix with FA signings.

Edited by d4rksabre, 10 July 2012 - 10:06 AM.

[Kelly the Dog]

d4rksabre, on 10 July 2012 - 07:57 AM, said:

Interesting article on Semin

http://www.anguscert...the-10-percent/

If only Semin could play like that guy can write. That really was one terrific article. IMO, too many players in all sports are overly criticized for what people want them to be or think they should be, rather than what they are. That's okay only if you're willing to admit, like this article does, that what they are is still much better than the 90% of players who play to their potential.

As far as Semin goes, it's really a tough choice as the Sabres try to change the culture of their team. We are looking for MORE compete and grit out of our players and that is not what Semin is. The thing is, however, when you played the Sabres before, you knew they were not going to be physical with you, you knew the entire game they were not going to do certain things or react certain ways, so you could temper your game before it really started toward a kind of play, or knew what liberties you could take.

With a guy like Semin, while you knew he wouldn't necessarily give 100% every shift, it's not as though you knew when that was going to be. You always have to pay attention to him. He is a serious threat every time on the ice whether he is trying or not because he turns it on and off. We still need players that other teams fear and he is one of them. He may not be the best choice, but are the Sabres a better team with him than without? Hell, yes.

[nfreeman]

Kelly the Dog, on 10 July 2012 - 10:08 AM, said:

If only Semin could play like that guy can write. That really was one terrific article. IMO, too many players in all sports are overly criticized for what people want them to be or think they should be, rather than what they are. That's okay only if you're willing to admit, like this article does, that what they are is still much better than the 90% of players who play to their potential.

As far as Semin goes, it's really a tough choice as the Sabres try to change the culture of their team. We are looking for MORE compete and grit out of our players and that is not what Semin is. The thing is, however, when you played the Sabres before, you knew they were not going to be physical with you, you knew the entire game they were not going to do certain things or react certain ways, so you could temper your game before it really started toward a kind of play, or knew what liberties you could take.

With a guy like Semin, while you knew he wouldn't necessarily give 100% every shift, it's not as though you knew when that was going to be. You always have to pay attention to him. He is a serious threat every time on the ice whether he is trying or not because he turns it on and off. We still need players that other teams fear and he is one of them. He may not be the best choice, but are the Sabres a better team with him than without? Hell, yes.

Well, you've kind of assumed away the whole issue here.  Were the Sabres a better team with Roy or without in 2010-11?  Roy "put up numbers" before getting hurt that year, but IMHO it's pretty obvious that they were better without him.

[Kelly the Dog]

nfreeman, on 10 July 2012 - 10:58 AM, said:

Well, you've kind of assumed away the whole issue here.  Were the Sabres a better team with Roy or without in 2010-11?  Roy "put up numbers" before getting hurt that year, but IMHO it's pretty obvious that they were better without him.

I don't think so. Injuries aside, Roy has always been the same kind of player on the Sabres. I'm not saying his effectiveness has always been the same, but we wouldn't be having this conversation if, say, Roy was always the #3 C on this team like he was when he was at his best, and wasnt asked to carry the load. Roy wore out his welcome here, and became stale, and became synonymous with the old way, and had difficulties with his coach.

But for most of his career, the team was better with Roy on it than they would have been without him, regardless of the fact we didn't win anything with him. I think any rational observer of the NHL and the team would argue with that. His detractors, and I have been one of them lately, IMO have a distorted image and memory of his career and playing time. It was surely time for him to go. It's arguable that last year it was time for him to go. But he has been a good player and valuable member of the team the vast majority of his career, even if he was never a #1 C and an NHL all-star.

Semin, too, seemed to have gotten stale in Washington.

Edited by Kelly the Dog, 10 July 2012 - 11:24 AM.

[weave]

Heard this AM that Jeff Halpern signed with the Rangers.  I figured he'd be just the 3/4 center Darcy would be looking for.  I guess not.

Kelly the Dog, on 10 July 2012 - 11:24 AM, said:

Semin, too, seemed to have gotten stale in Washington.

*giggle*

[TrueBluePhD]

weave, on 10 July 2012 - 11:41 AM, said:

Heard this AM that Jeff Halpern signed with the Rangers.  I figured he'd be just the 3/4 center Darcy would be looking for.  I guess not.

Maybe he was one of the guys the Sabres had an offer out to, and he just chose the Rangers instead?  I just can't imagine Regier and Ruff would be comfortable going into the season with the bottom-6 center situation as it currently stands, without at least making multiple efforts to improve it.

[weave]

TrueBluePhD, on 10 July 2012 - 11:44 AM, said:

Maybe he was one of the guys the Sabres had an offer out to, and he just chose the Rangers instead?  I just can't imagine Regier and Ruff would be comfortable going into the season with the bottom-6 center situation as it currently stands, without at least making multiple efforts to improve it.

There are still options.  Wellwood, Arnot, Brule, and Langkow are still out there.  Wellwood and Langkow are interesting to me for a 3/4 line.


I'm more concerned about how we fill the wing slot that I assume is still open for Vanek/Hodgson.  Is Jiri Hudler still out there?  If not, and Doan doesn't sign with Sabres (I am very pessimistic about this right now), what's left?  Petr Sykora, Andrei Kostitsyn, Andrew Brunette?  

OK, maybe Brunette wouldn't be so bad, but on a #1/2 line?  It is starting to look like Grigorenko is going to be a given.

[nfreeman]

Kelly the Dog, on 10 July 2012 - 11:24 AM, said:

I don't think so. Injuries aside, Roy has always been the same kind of player on the Sabres. I'm not saying his effectiveness has always been the same, but we wouldn't be having this conversation if, say, Roy was always the #3 C on this team like he was when he was at his best, and wasnt asked to carry the load. Roy wore out his welcome here, and became stale, and became synonymous with the old way, and had difficulties with his coach.

But for most of his career, the team was better with Roy on it than they would have been without him, regardless of the fact we didn't win anything with him. I think any rational observer of the NHL and the team would argue with that. His detractors, and I have been one of them lately, IMO have a distorted image and memory of his career and playing time. It was surely time for him to go. It's arguable that last year it was time for him to go. But he has been a good player and valuable member of the team the vast majority of his career, even if he was never a #1 C and an NHL all-star.

Semin, too, seemed to have gotten stale in Washington.

Well, I agree with the bolded part, but isn't this really true of just about any NHL player?  i.e. that some situations are better than others, and that a player will do better in an optimal situation?

When the situation was no longer optimal for Roy -- i.e. July 2, 2007 and thereafter -- IMHO he became a net negative for this team.

BTW, there's a pretty interesting interview with Andrew Peters from last week on the WGR audio vault about Roy.  He played in juniors with Roy, and he said that Roy is essentially the exact same person now that he was when he was 15.  He said Roy is a good person with a good heart, but he marches to his own drummer and he conducts himself like he did when he was 15.

In any case, he's gone now, but I'd guess DR's and LR's thinking about a guy like Semin is influenced by their experiences with Roy.

[TrueBluePhD]

weave, on 10 July 2012 - 12:01 PM, said:

There are still options.  Wellwood, Arnot, Brule, and Langkow are still out there.  Wellwood and Langkow are interesting to me for a 3/4 line.


I'm more concerned about how we fill the wing slot that I assume is still open for Vanek/Hodgson.  Is Jiri Hudler still out there?  If not, and Doan doesn't sign with Sabres (I am very pessimistic about this right now), what's left?  Petr Sykora, Andrei Kostitsyn, Andrew Brunette?  

OK, maybe Brunette wouldn't be so bad, but on a #1/2 line?  It is starting to look like Grigorenko is going to be a given.

Hudler is gone.  4 years $16 million from Calgary.

Definitely forgot about Wellwood.  If he'd be willing to take a 1-2 year deal I think he'd be a nice add for the 3rd line...really not interested in anything long-term though.  As I've said elsewhere, I love the idea of Arnott.  However, barring some sort of trade, adding two UFAs gives us a severe surplus of bodies even if Grigorenko doesn't make it.

Leino-Hodgson-Vanek
Foligno-Ennis-Stafford
Ott-Wellwood-Pominville
Gerbe (avoiding drama of excluding him)-Arnott-Kaleta

Scott, McCormick extra forwards.  Pardy and Weber/Sulzer extra D.

And that's without Grigorenko making it...and I think he does make it.  So something's gotta give!

[CallawaySabres]

Semin to Pitt for one year?

[Spndnchz]

I was actually right?

spndnchz, on 10 July 2012 - 07:44 AM, said:

Not confirmed:  Semin one year deal with Pens.

[Sabres Fan In NS]

Nothing on where Semin will be swimming next season, but ...

Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger
Canucks settle with Mason Raymond before arbitrations. 1 year, $2.275 mil.

EDIT:  I think Dreger and McKenzie are on vacation.  Those are the only twit(ter)s I check and there is not much happening.

Edited by Sabres Fan In NS, 10 July 2012 - 03:16 PM.

[IKnowPhysics]

d4rksabre, on 10 July 2012 - 07:57 AM, said:

Interesting article on Semin

http://www.anguscert...the-10-percent/

Article effectively illustrates a few points why if Semin came to Buffalo, it could be disasterous.
1) Author illustrates Semin's production decline as Washington shifts from an offense first team into a two-way team.  Buffalo, under Lindy Ruff, is a team that expcts all players to play two way- this isn't Semin's game, and his production could suffer.
2) Author illustrates how his high level of skill and low production could lead to the perception of him being lazy, which would infuriate many Buffalo fans.  See: Tim Connolly, Taylor Pyatt, Miroslav Satan (later on).
3) Author illustrates how his production inconsistencies would lead to the perception of him being streaky.  See: Drew Stafford, Maxim Afinogenov.

Looking at the player usage charts, I'd say that Tampa Bay would be a good fit.  He'd add depth there.  They've got role players playing their tough minutes, giving more offensive freedom to their top players (only a few teams do this, Captials included).  If only they could afford him and the goaltending they need.

[LGR4GM]

Regier "we have not spoken with his agent and we do not have interest in him at this time"  on alexander semin.

[d4rksabre]

LGR4GM, on 10 July 2012 - 04:15 PM, said:

Regier "we have not spoken with his agent and we do not have interest in him at this time"  on alexander semin.

There is a god!

[Spndnchz]

d4rksabre, on 10 July 2012 - 04:17 PM, said:

There is a god!

But he has talked to Doan's agent.

[sabres13]

IMO if we don't sign doan DR will approach Arnott but I don't know how hard he will try.

If we add anyone to the team I really think its going to be with trades. We have a surplus of d-men right now and I think DR Is looking at all the opinions.

Lastly, I think he's waiting until after development camp to judge where he's at with his rookies. For example if grigorenko and Girgensons are ready to play in the NHL why do you need Arnott?

[K-9]

LGR4GM, on 10 July 2012 - 04:15 PM, said:

Regier "we have not spoken with his agent and we do not have interest in him at this time"  on alexander semin.

"For reasons I'm not going to get into on this call."

Semin is just not a Lindy type of player.

I'm not sure if he was in the lineup in the game when they laid down against us early in the season in order to get their coach fired but that left an impression on GMs and HCs around the league, I'm sure.

We need guys like Ott and Doan to be mentoring our young players. Not players like Semin. I'm relieved.

GO SABRES!!!

[IKnowPhysics]

LGR4GM, on 10 July 2012 - 04:15 PM, said:

Regier "we have not spoken with his agent and we do not have interest in him at this time"  on alexander semin.

Ok then.  I'm fine with that.  Let's move on.