2543 replies to this topic

[Sabres Fan In NS]

nobody, on 28 June 2012 - 12:29 PM, said:

All NHL contracts are guaranteed.  They insure them so if an injury happens then the insurance company pays out the money rather than the team.

Well that makes sense.  Wonder what the premiums would be to insure Sid's new contract, being "high-risk" and all.

[Taro T]

LastPommerFan, on 28 June 2012 - 12:20 PM, said:

If he were to suffer a career ending injury next year, he wouldn't count against the cap, but he would still get paid every dime of the $104.4M. Guaranteed Contracts for the Win.



Because any reduction in the salary cap would be accompanied by a equal reduction in every player's salary. This keeps the % of cap each player takes up the same before and after. So we can work to 70.2, then after the CBA, each salary will just be rolled back to whatever number. So every team will still be under the cap.

It,

Under the current CBA, any payments made due to injury retirement wouldn't count against the cap.  It's likely that won't change, and if if does change that current contracts would be grandfathered under the new CBA to not count against the cap, but it isn't definite.  That's an awfully big risk the Pens are taking right before the system undergoes an overhaul.

Actually, I'd say the reason they adjusted the cap is that is the rule as currently written and the system they are currently operating under and will be operating under until mid-September.  But, yeah, it's likely any cap adjustments will see a commensurate %age adjustment to individual salaries under the new CBA.

[Sabres Fan In NS]

d4rksabre, on 28 June 2012 - 12:30 PM, said:

I think I understand. If you're a player and you get a big pay-day in FA aren't you going to be real pissed off if your salary gets rolled back down?

The salaries were rolled back for the current CBA.

If you sign a contract for a gazillion dollars and it's rolled-back to just below a gazillion would you care all that much?  You'd still be paid almost a gazillion dollars to play a game.

Also, not sure, but I believe it would only be cap-hit "salary" that would roll-back and not "signing bonuses", or what ever you want to call the front-loaded pay-outs of the contract.

Edited by Sabres Fan In NS, 29 June 2012 - 07:53 AM.

[Spndnchz]

Taro T, on 28 June 2012 - 12:38 PM, said:

It,

Under the current CBA, any payments made due to injury retirement wouldn't count against the cap.  It's likely that won't change, and if if does change that current contracts would be grandfathered under the new CBA to not count against the cap, but it isn't definite.  That's an awfully big risk the Pens are taking right before the system undergoes an overhaul.

Actually, I'd say the reason they adjusted the cap is that is the rule as currently written and the system they are currently operating under and will be operating under until mid-September.  But, yeah, it's likely any cap adjustments will see a commensurate %age adjustment to individual salaries under the new CBA.

I think it's a pretty smooth move by the Pens.  You sign him up for 8.7 million.  Surely he's worth that for his on ice, off ice, ticket selling, advertising ability.  If the new CBA has a rollback his contract gets included in it (I would think) and you get him for whatever % less.  If you wait until after a possible rollback you still would need to sign him for the 8.7 million aye?

[Taro T]

nobody, on 28 June 2012 - 12:29 PM, said:

All NHL contracts are guaranteed.  They insure them so if an injury happens then the insurance company pays out the money rather than the team.

True, all contracts are guaranteed, but I wouldn't be so certain that the Pens will be able to get Crosby's new deal insured.  Or, more accurately, I wouldn't be certain that the Pens will find it cost effective to get the deal insured.

If the likelihood of him not playing out the contract due to injury is 50% (for kicks), then any insurance policy would cost 50%+, probably more likely ~70% of the contract value) as the insurance company is not planning on losing money by issuing insurance policies.

spndnchz, on 28 June 2012 - 12:42 PM, said:

I think it's a pretty smooth move by the Pens.  You sign him up for 8.7 million.  Surely he's worth that for his on ice, off ice, ticket selling, advertising ability.  If the new CBA has a rollback his contract gets included in it (I would think) and you get him for whatever % less.  If you wait until after a possible rollback you still would need to sign him for the 8.7 million aye?

If the maximum player salary drops below $8.7MM after the new CBA becomes effective, you wouldn't be able to sign him for that now would you and would no longer 'need' to sign him for $8.7MM/.

But, yeah, it probably will work out for the Pens IF they are able to get the contract insured, as him getting his brains splattered this November and making him unable to play again would probably make him less valuable than $104MM or so.  If they didn't / don't get the contract insured, then it is a VERY ballsy move, and one I'd expect a hockey player rather than a businessman to make.

[apuszczalowski]

<sup>People are acting here like Crosby is Brett Lindros here and should be hanging up his skates.  If this guy was anywhere near that stage, The Pens wouldn't be commiting that much money to him and signing him for that long of a deal. They probably would have been looking to trade him and keep Staal around then.

As for the insurance, i don't think the teams go out and have to independently insure each contract. i would think the NHL itself has a policy on the entire league to cover salaries. If the player is as bad as some are making Crosby out to be healthwise, I don't think he could pass a physical and the league probably wouldn't be able to approve the contract  if its uninsurable</sup>

[weave]

apuszczalowski, on 28 June 2012 - 01:14 PM, said:

<sup>People are acting here like Crosby is Brett Lindros here and should be hanging up his skates.  If this guy was anywhere near that stage, The Pens wouldn't be commiting that much money to him and signing him for that long of a deal. They probably would have been looking to trade him and keep Staal around then.

As for the insurance, i don't think the teams go out and have to independently insure each contract. i would think the NHL itself has a policy on the entire league to cover salaries. If the player is as bad as some are making Crosby out to be healthwise, I don't think he could pass a physical and the league probably wouldn't be able to approve the contract  if its uninsurable</sup>

The Sabres team had an injury policy taken out for LaFontaine.  It was very well publicized at the time.  I'm fairly certain it still works the same way.  And it is possible that the Pens don't take out insurance on their player contracts.  It might be a risk they are willing to take.

[Taro T]

apuszczalowski, on 28 June 2012 - 01:14 PM, said:

<sup>People are acting here like Crosby is Brett Lindros here and should be hanging up his skates.  If this guy was anywhere near that stage, The Pens wouldn't be commiting that much money to him and signing him for that long of a deal. They probably would have been looking to trade him and keep Staal around then.

As for the insurance, i don't think the teams go out and have to independently insure each contract. i would think the NHL itself has a policy on the entire league to cover salaries. If the player is as bad as some are making Crosby out to be healthwise, I don't think he could pass a physical and the league probably wouldn't be able to approve the contract  if its uninsurable</sup>

Are you referring to 'health' insurance or 'salary' insurance?  The players are covered under health insurance policies and any injuries they sustain while playing are treated.  Salary insurance is a different matter and teams make their own decisions on what contracts to get insured as they are on the hook for at minimum 33% of all contracts and if players have to retire due to injury 100% of all contracts when the ink hits the paper.

Why would the league have a policy to cover player salaries?  The league doesn't pay player salaries (unless they play for the Yotes ).  There is no reason for the league to assume a liability for a particular owner and at least as recently as the Sabres' bankruptcy monies owed to former players were liabilities of the individual teams.

And Crosby obviously CAN pass a physical as he was playing this past playoffs.  There is nothing in the current CBA regarding a player being 'insurable' to allow the league to void a contract and haven't heard of any clause(s) in the bylaws that would allow it either.

And EVERYTHING is insurable, at a price.  The price to insure Crosby's contract would necessarily be higher than the price to insure someone like Ovechkin because Crosby has an injury (concussion) history and Ovechkin doesn't have that same history.  The probability of Ovechkin's career ending due to a catastrophic injury is less than that of Crosby's and an insurance provider (most likely Lloyd's) would factor that into any policy they issue.


PS - Why the microtext?

[Eric in Akron]

Per Bob McKenzie,  Quick extended for 10 years with LA Kings

[ThirtyEight]

Rask is also signed for one year at $3.5

[apuszczalowski]

Taro T, on 28 June 2012 - 02:53 PM, said:

PS - Why the microtext?

No idea, that was from my computer at work. For some reason I am having some trouble viewing things like links and buttons on websites

[Glass Case Of Emotion]

Sabres Fan In NS, on 28 June 2012 - 12:33 PM, said:

Well that makes sense.  Wonder what the premiums would be to insure Sid's new contract, being "high-risk" and all.

Interesting piece of the Current CBA:

Quote

24.6 For the IIHF World Championships, the Clubs shall permit a Player to play for his
National team provided:
(a) The Player's Club either did not qualify for the NHL Playoffs or was
eliminated in an early round of the Playoffs.
(b) No agent or representative of the Player's National team inquired as to
whether the Player would be willing to play for his National team until after his Club was
eliminated from the NHL Playoffs and any such inquiry was not made prior to giving
notice to the General Manager of the Player's Club.
© The IIHF or the Player's National team agree to provide such insurance to
cover the remaining value of the Player's SPC.
(d) The IIHF or the Player's National team agree to provide such additional
insurance to cover the Player's loss of earning capacity as the Player may require.

National Teams have to buy a policy to cover the remaining value of the player's contract.

Edited by LastPommerFan, 29 June 2012 - 12:51 PM.

[X. Benedict]

apuszczalowski, on 28 June 2012 - 01:14 PM, said:

<sup>People are acting here like Crosby is Brett Lindros here and should be hanging up his skates.  If this guy was anywhere near that stage, The Pens wouldn't be commiting that much money to him and signing him for that long of a deal. They probably would have been looking to trade him and keep Staal around then.

As for the insurance, i don't think the teams go out and have to independently insure each contract. i would think the NHL itself has a policy on the entire league to cover salaries. If the player is as bad as some are making Crosby out to be healthwise, I don't think he could pass a physical and the league probably wouldn't be able to approve the contract  if its uninsurable</sup>

2011-12 pts.       Tim Connolly 42                    Sydney Crosby 37.  

It's been too long since our board"s last Tim discussion.

[apuszczalowski]

X. Benedict, on 29 June 2012 - 02:22 PM, said:

2011-12 pts.    Tim Connolly 42 Sydney Crosby 37.  

It's been too long since our board"s last Tim discussion.

Wonder how long until Burke uses that stat at his next press conference to show how great he is at deals? He stole Connolly compared to what the Pens paid Crosby, lol

[X. Benedict]

Has anyone found a list of arbitration eligible players?

[Spndnchz]

X. Benedict, on 29 June 2012 - 03:52 PM, said:

Has anyone found a list of arbitration eligible players?

Biega, Kaleta, Persson, Chewy.  That's it.

Biega is the only one of those that's waiver exempt.

I haven't made a full NHL list.

[Bullwinkle III]

weave, on 28 June 2012 - 07:58 AM, said:

I know I am coming off as a fan boi here.  It's not that he's overly special.  It's that he has a set of characteristics that I think are well suited to a hole we have in the team makeup.

And you are exactly right.  The Buffalo Brain Trust has stated that they want the Sabres to be tougher to play against.  I totally agree.  Ott is the guy that will help do that for them.  Darcy knows this quite well and I think he will set his sights on either Ott or Doan or both.

[Eleven]

X. Benedict, on 29 June 2012 - 02:22 PM, said:

2011-12 pts.    Tim Connolly 42 Sydney Crosby 37.  

It's been too long since our board"s last Tim discussion.

It will never be too long.

[Spndnchz]

Maple Leafs buyout Colby Armstrong.

[LGR4GM]

spndnchz, on 30 June 2012 - 10:40 AM, said:

Maple Leafs buyout Colby Armstrong.

maybe they need that 2mil in cap space for Luongo trade or for their plans tomorrow.

never mind, dreger says it all about clearing some cap space.

Edited by LGR4GM, 30 June 2012 - 11:01 AM.

[ThirtyEight]

Pominville and Vanek are two of only 18 players who have scored 20 goals+ and 50 points+ in each of the last 5 seasons
Not too shabby

[LGR4GM]

ThirtyEight, on 30 June 2012 - 02:35 PM, said:

Pominville and Vanek are two of only 18 players who have scored 20 goals+ and 50 points+ in each of the last 5 seasons
Not too shabby

Didnt you know? they play for Buffalo so they must suck... we'd be lucky to get anything of value for pominville.

Seriously this is why when ppl talk about how much Pommers sucks I laugh.  Guy constantly performs but because he doesn't run ###### over everyone from Eric Cole to Derek Dorsett is worth twice as much.

[Eleven]

Pat Kane is in trouble now... http://www.cnn.com/2....html?hpt=hp_t2

[Sabres Fan In NS]

Eleven, on 30 June 2012 - 04:22 PM, said:

Pat Kane is in trouble now... http://www.cnn.com/2....html?hpt=hp_t2

  ...

That's just great stuff!

EDIT:  I just went back to the link.  There is a list of 20 new laws ... some are just priceless.

Edited by Sabres Fan In NS, 30 June 2012 - 04:39 PM.

[ThirtyEight]

Eleven, on 30 June 2012 - 04:22 PM, said:

Pat Kane is in trouble now... http://www.cnn.com/2....html?hpt=hp_t2

I dunno, i think this move puts the cabbies at risk :s

[Bullwinkle III]

Eleven, on 30 June 2012 - 04:22 PM, said:

Pat Kane is in trouble now... http://www.cnn.com/2....html?hpt=hp_t2

LOL!   If this doesn't inspire him to demand a trade to Buffalo, nothing will!

[inkman]

ThirtyEight, on 30 June 2012 - 02:35 PM, said:

Pominville and Vanek are two of only 18 players who have scored 20 goals+ and 50 points+ in each of the last 5 seasons
Not too shabby

I like them, but I bet they are the softest guys on that list.

[Taro T]

Eleven, on 30 June 2012 - 07:04 AM, said:

It will never be too long.

[Touched by Boyes]

LastPommerFan, on 28 June 2012 - 12:20 PM, said:

If he were to suffer a career ending injury next year, he wouldn't count against the cap, but he would still get paid every dime of the $104.4M. Guaranteed Contracts for the Win.



Because any reduction in the salary cap would be accompanied by a equal reduction in every player's salary. This keeps the % of cap each player takes up the same before and after. So we can work to 70.2, then after the CBA, each salary will just be rolled back to whatever number. So every team will still be under the cap.

d4rksabre, on 28 June 2012 - 12:30 PM, said:

I think I understand. If you're a player and you get a big pay-day in FA aren't you going to be real pissed off if your salary gets rolled back down?

Wouldn't that give more incentive for the huge front loaded contracts discussed in the Parise thread? If parise got a huge signing bonus from TP on July 1, he keeps that money no matter what happens in the new CBA.

This was discussed earlier by a poster here (sorry I don't remember so if it was you claim it accordingly) that surmised that Parise could be landed theoretically at a $6MM cap hit by giving him a huge first few years. If that was all signing bonus that could give us a leg up in negotiations since its almost a given for new CBA salary rollback. UFA's should get their money now before they lose ~15% of total value.

[bunomatic]

Didn't they roll back salaries 28% or something last CBA? If they capitulate by agreeing to another 15% or so thats a big f'in loss over two contracts. Whats in it for them or what do the owners give up on their side ?

[LGR4GM]

J. Staal just signed a 10yr 60m$ contract extension

[Sabres Fan In NS]

Touched by Boyes, on 01 July 2012 - 08:27 AM, said:

Wouldn't that give more incentive for the huge front loaded contracts discussed in the Parise thread? If parise got a huge signing bonus from TP on July 1, he keeps that money no matter what happens in the new CBA.

This was discussed earlier by a poster here (sorry I don't remember so if it was you claim it accordingly) that surmised that Parise could be landed theoretically at a $6MM cap hit by giving him a huge first few years. If that was all signing bonus that could give us a leg up in negotiations since its almost a given for new CBA salary rollback. UFA's should get their money now before they lose ~15% of total value.

I believe it was the fan of the captain that had that proposal.  I don't remember all the details, but if I recall correctly the key part was that about $25M ($24M bonuses ... $12M on July 1, 2012 and 12M on July 1, 2013 ... + $1M salary) would be paid in the first 12 months of the new contract Parise sign with the Sabres.  I believe bonus $ is not subject to the salary roll-back I assume will come in the next CBA.  The length of the contract ... comes out to a $6M cap hit.

Edited by Sabres Fan In NS, 01 July 2012 - 10:59 AM.

[Touched by Boyes]

Sabres Fan In NS, on 01 July 2012 - 10:58 AM, said:

I believe it was the fan of the captain that had that proposal.  I don't remember all the details, but if I recall correctly the key part was that about $25M ($24M bonuses ... $12M on July 1, 2012 and 12M on July 1, 2013 ... + $1M salary) would be paid in the first 12 months of the new contract Parise sign with the Sabres.  I believe bonus $ is not subject to the salary roll-back I assume will come in the next CBA.  The length of the contract ... comes out to a $6M cap hit.

Thanks NS. I think Parise would much rather have that type of deal than an evenly spread out that could get the 15% rollback over the next 5-10 years.

[Eleven]

Torres's suspension has been cut to 21 games (including time served), meaning he will miss the first 8 of next season:  http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=399768

Edited by Eleven, 02 July 2012 - 02:06 PM.

[nobody]

"Coyotes’ prospect Brett MacLean is in intensive care in a London, Ontario area hospital after suffering a cardiac emergency Monday evening while playing hockey."


http://mainehockeyjo...diac-emergency/

[X. Benedict]

spndnchz, on 29 June 2012 - 03:55 PM, said:

Biega, Kaleta, Persson, Chewy.  That's it.

Biega is the only one of those that's waiver exempt.

I haven't made a full NHL list.

thanks chz...

[Spndnchz]

X. Benedict, on 05 July 2012 - 11:31 AM, said:

thanks chz...

Note:
Persson and Chewy defected.

[X. Benedict]

spndnchz, on 05 July 2012 - 12:40 PM, said:

Note:
Persson and Chewy defected.

Just as well, I couldn't spell either name.

[Sabres Fan In NS]

Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger
Red Wings announce the hiring of Tom Renney as an associate coach. 3 year deal. Good things happen to good people. Good hire.

[Sabres Fan In NS]

RIP Bob ...

Detroit Red Wings ‏@DetroitRedWings
Today we remember #HockeytownHero Bob Probert
Retweeted by Darren Dreger

Edited by Sabres Fan In NS, 05 July 2012 - 02:51 PM.