1641 replies to this topic

[Glass Case Of Emotion]

d4rksabre, on 20 June 2012 - 08:35 AM, said:

That would be funny, considering I don't think there's a chance of Parise going to Minny.

What do you mean "no chance"? Ryan Callahan and Dustin Brown are totally coming back to upstate NY in July of 2014.

[d4rksabre]

LastPommerFan, on 20 June 2012 - 08:37 AM, said:

What do you mean "no chance"? Ryan Callahan and Dustin Brown are totally coming back to upstate NY in July of 2014.

Exactly

[CallawaySabres]

Unless Miller wants out, I don't want him as a piece of this trade. I think a fully healthy D corp and a healthy Miller go a long way to reaching the ultimate goal. Scramble whatever you want up front but leave the first line of defense along with Miller out of it.

[apuszczalowski]

DeLuca67, on 20 June 2012 - 06:33 AM, said:

You can always move Stafford in another deal if the Ducks have no interest in Stafford.

Ryan is a proven NHL scorer and has shown a willingness to use his size. It's going to come at a heavier price, i would think that more teams than the Sabres would be in on trade talks. Unless the Ducks are targeting Miller.

The difference between Miller and Hiller is little more than the M and the H. Hiller actually has the better career gaa and sv%. Hiller will also only cost you 2 more years at $4.5 per year. At that point you hope Enroth will have taken over.

If Hiller and Ryan can be had, it may be just the jolt this franchise needs.

So the Ducks would want a more expensive goalie with worse career gaa and Save% to save money to resign Geztlaf and Perry and rebuild with?

[HopefulFuture]

sabres1970, on 19 June 2012 - 10:09 PM, said:

As much as I'd like that to be true:

Dylan Stebbins ‏@DStebb716
@FriedgeHNIC People are saying you said Buffalo is strongly pursuing Bobby Ryan. True or false?

   Elliotte Friedman ‏@FriedgeHNIC

@DStebb716 Was wondering what was with all the new Buffalo-area followers. That's not what I said...can see them interested, though.

There we go. And thank you.

I am not aware of who is an insider and who is just blowin' smoke up our arse, but I read enough on this board before I joined to realize many of you do.

With that said, Regier stated the Sabres were looking at area's to upgrade, and where they could, they would attempt to do so.
I have rationalize that Bobby Ryan is a significant upgrade over Drew Stafford and therefore, deduce that Regier and Murray either have had conversations on Ryan or currently are.

[sabres26]

Does anyone think the sabres will trade for a player Friday night at the draft? There are a lot of rumors the sabres are in on that makes me think we are only using one 1st and 1 of the 2nds to actually draft a player, and the other 2 picks will be used as trade bait

Edited by sabres26, 20 June 2012 - 01:49 PM.

[sabres1970]

sabres26, on 20 June 2012 - 01:24 PM, said:

Does anyone think the sabres will trade for a player Friday night at the draft? There are a lot of rumors the sabres are in on that makes me think we are only using one 1st and 1 of the 2nds to actually draft a player, and the other 2 picks will be used as trade bait

Since signing up for Twitter a year or so back, I've made the mistake of buying into several trade related rumors. I've since learned my lesson. All this talk has made me skeptical.

[JJFIVEOH]

I agree with the bogus trade rumors on twitter. I'm not on twitter but I see them talked about on here. But the fact that BFLO has 4 picks in the top 44 should be a hint that Darcy will make some kind of move by the end of Friday night.

[MattPie]

Anyone have a good internet streaming idea for the draft? Doesn't need to be video, I wouldn't mind listening to it while I'm doing chores Friday night. Would it be on WGR?

[Derrico]

MattPie, on 20 June 2012 - 03:01 PM, said:

Anyone have a good internet streaming idea for the draft? Doesn't need to be video, I wouldn't mind listening to it while I'm doing chores Friday night. Would it be on WGR?

N

Not sure about down there.  For you Canadian viewers, I've checked ahead and TSN is carrying the draft.  I checked for Saturday and can't find anyone who is showing it.  Maybe NHL Network?

[dudacek]

NHL Network is supposed to be carrying Saturday.

[nobody]

Friday's round 1 will be on NBS Sportsnet from 7pm to 9pm.

Looks like the Saturday will only be on the NHL network.

[thewookie1]

Adam,12th or 21st pick,Weber or prospect outside of McNabb on the D side for Ryan

Is that plausible?


What could Roy/Stafford bring in a deal seperate or together paired with a 2nd


Can Vanek get Nash 1 for 1?

2 40 goal seasons for 1 40 goal season but a year younger

[d4rksabre]

thewookie1, on 20 June 2012 - 04:49 PM, said:

Adam,12th or 21st pick,Weber or prospect outside of McNabb on the D side for Ryan

Is that plausible?


What could Roy/Stafford bring in a deal seperate or together paired with a 2nd


Can Vanek get Nash 1 for 1?

2 40 goal seasons for 1 40 goal season but a year younger

As far as Vanek for Nash, it's similar to the Luongo for Miller argument. Might as well stick with what you know.

[JJFIVEOH]

Let's not forget the fact that Nash has been the team. As much as we think the Sabres lack scoring, Vanek has been surrounded by players who can score goals. He hasn't been the complete center of attention like Nash has been for Columbus. He gets more opportunities to score than Vanek does.

I thought the reason to make deals this offseason was to improve the team, not just swap similar players.

[deluca67]

apuszczalowski, on 20 June 2012 - 09:10 AM, said:

So the Ducks would want a more expensive goalie with worse career gaa and Save% to save money to resign Geztlaf and Perry and rebuild with?

Why do the Ducks need to "save money?" With Bobby Ryan they have  $25 mil this year and $50+ mil available next season. The difference between Ryan and Miller is only $1.1 mil. They still have plenty of money for Getslaf and Perry. The Ducks can easily trade Ryan for a package including Miller and then turn around and sign Parise to replace Ryan on the wing. That would be a really nice shakeup for the Ducks who will still have money to do other things. With the money they have for the following season, they can really load up.

JJFIVEOH, on 20 June 2012 - 06:10 PM, said:

Let's not forget the fact that Nash has been the team. As much as we think the Sabres lack scoring, Vanek has been surrounded by players who can score goals. He hasn't been the complete center of attention like Nash has been for Columbus. He gets more opportunities to score than Vanek does.

I thought the reason to make deals this offseason was to improve the team, not just swap similar players.

So? Vanek gets lost in the shuffle of the offensive juggernaut that is the Buffalo Sabres? The heat is really getting to people.

[d4rksabre]

DeLuca67, on 20 June 2012 - 06:28 PM, said:

So? Vanek gets lost in the shuffle of the offensive juggernaut that is the Buffalo Sabres? The heat is really getting to people.

[JJFIVEOH]

DeLuca67, on 20 June 2012 - 06:28 PM, said:

So? Vanek gets lost in the shuffle of the offensive juggernaut that is the Buffalo Sabres? The heat is really getting to people.

You've conveniently avoided my point.

[ubkev]

Anyone think it would be possible to wrangle the rights to Ryan O'Reilly away from the Avs in a trade? I think I'd actually prefer him to Stastny.

I ask because Shero seems pretty adamant that hes not listening to offers for Staal.

[deluca67]

JJFIVEOH, on 20 June 2012 - 06:34 PM, said:

You've conveniently avoided my point.

You point is that Vanek's numbers suffer because of the offensive talent around him while Nash flourishes because of the lack of talent around him. The NHL isn't the NBA where one star on a bad team can score 40 a night. The NHL is the exact opposite, you need talented players around you to thrive. Nash being able to produce with the limited talent around him is a testament to his ability. We have all seen what Vanek can do, he just can;t seem to do it for long stretches and put that monster season together.

ubkev, on 20 June 2012 - 06:41 PM, said:

Anyone think it would be possible to wrangle the rights to Ryan O'Reilly away from the Avs in a trade? I think I'd actually prefer him to Stastny.

I ask because Shero seems pretty adamant that hes not listening to offers for Staal.

It all depends if you are willing to pay the price. The kid is only 21 and has 236 NHL games under his belt.

[TrueBluePhD]

DeLuca67, on 20 June 2012 - 06:28 PM, said:

Why do the Ducks need to "save money?" With Bobby Ryan they have  $25 mil this year and $50+ mil available next season. The difference between Ryan and Miller is only $1.1 mil. They still have plenty of money for Getslaf and Perry. The Ducks can easily trade Ryan for a package including Miller and then turn around and sign Parise to replace Ryan on the wing. That would be a really nice shakeup for the Ducks who will still have money to do other things. With the money they have for the following season, they can really load up.

You always seem to forget that cap money is not the only thing that matters to teams.  It's been well documented by perfectly credible sources that the Ducks work within an internal budget.  Now, it's not as bad as the Islanders internal budget...but it's there, and it absolutely limits their spending to levels lower than the cap.  And that's not even getting into cash issues with a front-loaded contract that Parise is sure to get.  They're not in a situation where they have to get rid of Ryan or anything, but I don't think they're about to go on a UFA spending spree either.

ubkev, on 20 June 2012 - 06:41 PM, said:

Anyone think it would be possible to wrangle the rights to Ryan O'Reilly away from the Avs in a trade? I think I'd actually prefer him to Stastny.

I ask because Shero seems pretty adamant that hes not listening to offers for Staal.

I'd be really surprised if O'Reilly were to get moved for anything short of a drastic overpayment.  I'd love him on the Sabres though.

[IKnowPhysics]

ubkev, on 20 June 2012 - 06:41 PM, said:

I ask because Shero seems pretty adamant that hes not listening to offers for Staal.

So he says, this week.  Bob McKenzie via Twatter has it right.  Pittsburgh may want to resign Staal and they'd probably attempt to do it real soon.  Otherwise, Staal's trade value drops considerably as a one year UFA heading towards a short term rental.  But seeing as how Staal's getting married this Friday, it's doubtful any party wants to bring up the conversation of long term contracts.  So if contract talks don't go well in the week before July 1, Staal may be put up for auction then.  If they wait until after July 1, suitors for a one year contract may dry up as needs are satiated in the UFA market, and Pittburgh may have to/end up wanting to keep him until the trade deadline next year because nobody would then give them good return after the UFA period.

If I were Staal's agent, I would be paid handsomely to know all of this, and I'd be advising the kid that if he wants a real payday, to wait it out until July 1.  If he does, he'd likely be one the few high quality UFA centers left unsigned by their club next year.  It may mean he plays a month or a year for a different club, but he'll get paid for a several years for the sacrifice.

[deluca67]

TrueBluePhD, on 20 June 2012 - 06:58 PM, said:

You always seem to forget that cap money is not the only thing that matters to teams.  It's been well documented by perfectly credible sources that the Ducks work within an internal budget.  Now, it's not as bad as the Islanders internal budget...but it's there, and it absolutely limits their spending to levels lower than the cap.  And that's not even getting into cash issues with a front-loaded contract that Parise is sure to get.  They're not in a situation where they have to get rid of Ryan or anything, but I don't think they're about to go on a UFA spending spree either.




I'd be really surprised if O'Reilly were to get moved for anything short of a drastic overpayment.  I'd love him on the Sabres though.

They may not go on a spending spree, they are not limited by bad contracts. They can trade for a Miller and not have it effect other contracts (Getslaf, Perry). Which was the original point.

[IKnowPhysics]

DeLuca67, on 20 June 2012 - 06:28 PM, said:

Why do the Ducks need to "save money?"

NHL Attendance ranking of Anaheim Ducks: 26th
Only worse: Columbus, Dallas, Islanders, Phoenix

That's your answer.


Side bar: LOL, Dallas, where'd all your fans go?  You post up winning seasons, but don't make the playoffs, and suddenly your attendance percentage is NHL worst? Lulz.

[TrueBluePhD]

DeLuca67, on 20 June 2012 - 07:04 PM, said:

They may not go on a spending spree, they are not limited by bad contracts. They can trade for a Miller and not have it effect other contracts (Getslaf, Perry). Which was the original point.

Agreed, taking on a million here or there wouldn't be an issue.  But I can't see them bringing in any big names without shedding money, since Getzlaf and Perry should both be due for $1 million+ raises and whatever bonus money after the season with new contracts.  I think it was Dreger who reported IF they trade Ryan they would be willing to take on equal salary in return (or a bit more), but it would have to be spread over several different bodies rather than 1 player.

[nobody]

TrueBluePhD, on 20 June 2012 - 06:58 PM, said:

I'd be really surprised if O'Reilly were to get moved for anything short of a drastic overpayment.  I'd love him on the Sabres though.

The Sabres could overpay with some of their bigger contracts since the Avs have plenty of room to get to the floor.

[TrueBluePhD]

IKnowPhysics, on 20 June 2012 - 07:04 PM, said:

So he says, this week.  Bob McKenzie via Twatter has it right.  Pittsburgh may want to resign Staal and they'd probably attempt to do it real soon.  Otherwise, Staal's trade value drops considerably as a one year UFA heading towards a short term rental.  But seeing as how Staal's getting married this Friday, it's doubtful any party wants to bring up the conversation of long term contracts.  So if contract talks don't go well in the week before July 1, Staal may be put up for auction then.  If they wait until after July 1, suitors for a one year contract may dry up as needs are satiated in the UFA market, and Pittburgh may have to/end up wanting to keep him until the trade deadline next year because nobody would then give them good return after the UFA period.

If I were Staal's agent, I would be paid handsomely to know all of this, and I'd be advising the kid that if he wants a real payday, to wait it out until July 1.  If he does, he'd likely be one the few high quality UFA centers left unsigned by their club next year.  It may mean he plays a month or a year for a different club, but he'll get paid for a several years for the sacrifice.

My gut tells me if Pittsburgh can't get him signed, they're going to keep him anyway (short of being absolutely blown away by an offer).  They're a Cup contending team, so if I'm their GM I probably roll the dice on a Cup run and trade his rights afterwards.

nobody, on 20 June 2012 - 07:13 PM, said:

The Sabres could overpay with some of their bigger contracts since the Avs have plenty of room to get to the floor.

He was their top center last year and he's only 21.  Half their roster is free agents (RFA or UFA), by the time they sign everybody I doubt they need much to get to the floor.

[deluca67]

TrueBluePhD, on 20 June 2012 - 07:11 PM, said:

Agreed, taking on a million here or there wouldn't be an issue.  But I can't see them bringing in any big names without shedding money, since Getzlaf and Perry should both be due for $1 million+ raises and whatever bonus money after the season with new contracts.  I think it was Dreger who reported IF they trade Ryan they would be willing to take on equal salary in return (or a bit more), but it would have to be spread over several different bodies rather than 1 player.

i wouldn't underestimate the value of expiring & entry level contracts. If the Sabres package the #1's, prospects and a Roy/Leopold type contract that expires at the end of the year, I think that is a combination that could peak the Ducks interest.

[IKnowPhysics]

TrueBluePhD, on 20 June 2012 - 07:13 PM, said:

My gut tells me if Pittsburgh can't get him signed, they're going to keep him anyway (short of being absolutely blown away by an offer).  They're a Cup contending team, so if I'm their GM I probably roll the dice on a Cup run and trade his rights afterwards.

It's a legitimate path, and likely the same path by which we'd keep Derek Roy around as long as possible next season, regardless of whether we had intentions of signing him.

[TrueBluePhD]

DeLuca67, on 20 June 2012 - 07:16 PM, said:

i wouldn't underestimate the value of expiring & entry level contracts. If the Sabres package the #1's, prospects and a Roy/Leopold type contract that expires at the end of the year, I think that is a combination that could peak the Ducks interest.

I honestly think a package of Sekera, Armia (I'd much rather send Adam their way, but Armia has a higher ceiling and would probably be necessary) and a 1st has to come close.  Sekera is a top-4 D, Armia is a 1st line prospect and the 1st can be whatever.  I love Ryan, but it's not like he's Malkin or something, it shouldn't take gutting the entire organization to get him.

IKnowPhysics, on 20 June 2012 - 07:16 PM, said:

It's a legitimate path, and likely the same path by which we'd keep Derek Roy around as long as possible next season, regardless of whether we had intentions of signing him.

Yup.  If Roy isn't gone this offseason I don't think he gets moved at all unless the Sabres crap the bed again next season.

[Bullwinkle III]

ubkev, on 20 June 2012 - 06:41 PM, said:

Anyone think it would be possible to wrangle the rights to Ryan O'Reilly away from the Avs in a trade? I think I'd actually prefer him to Stastny.

I ask because Shero seems pretty adamant that hes not listening to offers for Staal.

I fully agree with you.

As far as the Vanek vs. Nash comparison is concerned, give me Nash every time.  Vanek is too high strung to be consistent.  That showed last season when he did fine the first half, but when injuries hit the team and performance slackened, he went into a tailspin.  If he were a leader, he'd take the reins of the team and lead the way, similar to what Pomminstein did.

Nash is very good and consistent on a bad team.  NHL Network showed the top 10 goals of the season two nights ago and Nash's goal was absolutely awesome (and I rarely use that word).  I could never imagine Vanek doing anything close to that.

[LGR4GM]

ubkev, on 20 June 2012 - 06:41 PM, said:

Anyone think it would be possible to wrangle the rights to Ryan O'Reilly away from the Avs in a trade? I think I'd actually prefer him to Stastny.

I ask because Shero seems pretty adamant that hes not listening to offers for Staal.

O'Reilly ='s Hodgson  so meh.  O'Reilly had 55pts last year in his 3rd full year. CoHo had 41pts in his first full year.  O'Reilly is 1 yr younger and 10lbs heavier. Cody doesn't have 3years of experience.  SO basically we are adding another center prospect exactly like the kid we just traded Kassian for.  Now if you can ditch Roy and bring in O'Reilly than awesome but short of doing that this trade is very lateral in nature and is more of a rebuilding trade then a win the cup in 2years trade.

[Andrew Amerk]

Bullwinkle III, on 20 June 2012 - 10:40 PM, said:

I fully agree with you.

As far as the Vanek vs. Nash comparison is concerned, give me Nash every time.  Vanek is too high strung to be consistent.  That showed last season when he did fine the first half, but when injuries hit the team and performance slackened, he went into a tailspin.  If he were a leader, he'd take the reins of the team and lead the way, similar to what Pomminstein did.

Nash is very good and consistent on a bad team.  NHL Network showed the top 10 goals of the season two nights ago and Nash's goal was absolutely awesome (and I rarely use that word).  I could never imagine Vanek doing anything close to that.

Didn't Vanek have the NHL Network goal of the year last year?

Hmmm.

[Bullwinkle III]

Andrew Amerk, on 21 June 2012 - 02:03 AM, said:

Didn't Vanek have the NHL Network goal of the year last year?

Hmmm.

I didn't see it and Vanek didn't make the top 20 this year.  But no goal - not by Malkin, Crosby, or anyone else was better than the one by Nash.  Simply amazing!

[drunken idiot]

DeLuca67, on 20 June 2012 - 06:47 PM, said:

You point is that Vanek's numbers suffer because of the offensive talent around him while Nash flourishes because of the lack of talent around him. The NHL isn't the NBA where one star on a bad team can score 40 a night. The NHL is the exact opposite, you need talented players around you to thrive. Nash being able to produce with the limited talent around him is a testament to his ability. We have all seen what Vanek can do, he just can;t seem to do it for long stretches and put that monster season together.


It all depends if you are willing to pay the price. The kid is only 21 and has 236 NHL games under his belt.

I think he suffers more because of his coach than anything else. As time goes on it looks more and more like the Ruff/Vanek relationship is like oil and water.

[carpandean]

IKnowPhysics, on 20 June 2012 - 07:04 PM, said:

So he says, this week.  Bob McKenzie via Twatter has it right.  Pittsburgh may want to resign Staal and they'd probably attempt to do it real soon.  Otherwise, Staal's trade value drops considerably as a one year UFA heading towards a short term rental.  But seeing as how Staal's getting married this Friday, it's doubtful any party wants to bring up the conversation of long term contracts.  So if contract talks don't go well in the week before July 1, Staal may be put up for auction then.  If they wait until after July 1, suitors for a one year contract may dry up as needs are satiated in the UFA market, and Pittburgh may have to/end up wanting to keep him until the trade deadline next year because nobody would then give them good return after the UFA period.

If I were Staal's agent, I would be paid handsomely to know all of this, and I'd be advising the kid that if he wants a real payday, to wait it out until July 1.  If he does, he'd likely be one the few high quality UFA centers left unsigned by their club next year.  It may mean he plays a month or a year for a different club, but he'll get paid for a several years for the sacrifice.

I disagree that Staal's value will dry up after 7/1.  While some teams may want him for a one-year rental, other suitors looking for a player of his caliber would prefer more years, not less.  Nobody, even Pittsburgh, can sign an extension with him until this year ends (after 6/30.)  A team (Pens or another with permission) might be able to talk to him about whether he'd consider signing on 7/1 (haven't checked if the rules say "sign" or "negotiate" an extension), but there's little guarantee until after that date.  If the Pens/Staal negotiations don't go well over the next week, I wouldn't be surprised to see Pittsburgh test the market both with (before or after 7/1) and without the possibility of additional years (trade would not go through until 7/1 or later.)  If a team offers them a huge package contingent on being able to negotiate an extension, then I'd expect to see an announcement after FA starts that "Pens have traded Jordan Staal to ____ for ____," then "____ has signed Staal to a ____ year, $____ million extension."

[d4rksabre]

Freakpop, on 21 June 2012 - 05:12 AM, said:

I think he suffers more because of his coach than anything else. As time goes on it looks more and more like the Ruff/Vanek relationship is like oil and water.

I gotta second this.

[apuszczalowski]

DeLuca67, on 20 June 2012 - 06:28 PM, said:

Why do the Ducks need to "save money?" With Bobby Ryan they have  $25 mil this year and $50+ mil available next season. The difference between Ryan and Miller is only $1.1 mil. They still have plenty of money for Getslaf and Perry. The Ducks can easily trade Ryan for a package including Miller and then turn around and sign Parise to replace Ryan on the wing. That would be a really nice shakeup for the Ducks who will still have money to do other things. With the money they have for the following season, they can really load up.

Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie
If ANA moves Ryan I suspect it would be for two or three building block pieces that would increase organizational depth but not payroll.
Of course I'm sure you have better inside sources then Bob McKenzie of TSN...

If the Ducks aren't looking to shed payroll with this move, why do they keep putting such a young 30 goal scorer on the trade market?
And my point is, why would they want to take Miller, with a higher salary and similar or slightly higher GAA and Save% then the guy they currenlty have? The only reason Miller has been thrown into the trade rumors of this deal is because his wifes in Cali and people think he desperatly wants to be traded there to be closer to her.

[sabres26]

There has to be some trades made today. if I was the blue jackets, i would deal Nash today so I could know what draft picks we got(if there are any involved in the trade) and be prepared for tomorrow.

[TrueBluePhD]

apuszczalowski, on 21 June 2012 - 08:46 AM, said:

Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie
If ANA moves Ryan I suspect it would be for two or three building block pieces that would increase organizational depth but not payroll.
Of course I'm sure you have better inside sources then Bob McKenzie of TSN...

If the Ducks aren't looking to shed payroll with this move, why do they keep putting such a young 30 goal scorer on the trade market?
And my point is, why would they want to take Miller, with a higher salary and similar or slightly higher GAA and Save% then the guy they currenlty have? The only reason Miller has been thrown into the trade rumors of this deal is because his wifes in Cali and people think he desperatly wants to be traded there to be closer to her.

As to the bolded, I think the idea is just as McKenzie said...to increase organizational depth.  The Ducks may believe that Ryan could return a package of players that individually are less talented than Ryan, but collectively they are quality players and fill multiple holes, thus making the Ducks better overall.  It's also important to keep in mind that while they are fielding offers and would move him for the right one, they aren't exactly shopping him.