133 replies to this topic

[tdflyers]

First I'm a flyers fan at heart but watch as many games as I can.
Please don't hold that against me as I come in peace.

I wanted to know what you guys are thinking about Leino.
I'm sure you've beat the topic to death but .....

When the Flyers didn't sign him, I was one of those that didn't think it was a good idea - Until - I saw what he got for a contract.

I do think he is better than what he is showing this year but a lot depends on his line-mates style.

Briere is great at holding the puck down low and getting open. Hartnell is good at (besides being annoying) crashing the net and opening it up for his line-mates.

Ville thrived because of it. It also helped that Lavy's style is offensive minded and which creates a decent amount of odd-man rushes.

Anyway, just wondering if you guys think it's Ville or a combination of Ville and other things like line-mates, Ruff's style and so on.

Thanks.

Edited by tdflyers, 06 February 2012 - 04:15 PM.

[Derrico]

Firstly, you don't have to tell us Briere's strengths, unfortunately we know them.

As for Ville, I think he's obviously been a major disapointment thus far. In my own opinion, he's been near invisible and save for that beauty of a goal he finally scored a couple games ago I haven't seen him do basically anything out there. He dangles with the puck and makes some passes where you think 'if only the winger was there that would be a nice play.' With time and chemestry I could see him turning into a decent set up man but he's looked lost most of the year IMO. The scary part is we have him at a pretty high cap hit for five more seasons so we need him to turn things around. Furthermore, he was quoted as saying on a couple of occasions that he thought he played a good game. To me, he hasn't played a good game all year so if he thinks he is then that is troublesome.

They signed him with the thought of him playing up the middle and after about Game 10 of the season he openly stated he doesn't feel comfortable there so he's been moved back to the wing. With his high cap hit and our need for scoring and a centerman, I think it's an obvious he isn't pulling his weight. I guess time will tell if he can turn it around.....

[Billy Fuccillo]

Ville Leino is beyond awful, and now we're stuck with this loser for 5 more years after our idiot GM with a girl's first name gets canned.

[kishoph]

He's been bad. I think that his confidence has to be really low right now. It seems that he can not flourish in Lindy's system (what player has ?), he has shown a flash or two of the play he's capable of, but that doesn't cut it. I hope he can turn it around, but I have my doubts.

[Chris_in_UT]

kishoph, on 04 February 2012 - 02:40 PM, said:

He's been bad. I think that his confidence has to be really low right now. It seems that he can not flourish in Lindy's system (what player has ?), he has shown a flash or two of the play he's capable of, but that doesn't cut it. I hope he can turn it around, but I have my doubts.

I don't. Even over the course of the last few weeks, he's shown improvement. I think he'll always be able to be knocked off the puck; that's just a size/strength thing, which we know works against.

Yes, he's been "bust-worthy" for most of the season. I don't think he's played well much at all, but I don't think we've seen the best from him yet, either. I don't think anyone has ... but right now he's ours, and *when* he hits his stride, he's going to be in blue and gold ... if Regier doesn't do something stupid first.

[bunomatic]

I want desperately to believe that this is a down season for him and that his best is yet to come. He has shown improvement in the past few games but the team as a whole has shown improvement imo because of their renewed commitment to team defence. I also believe if or when Leino gets out of Lindys system he will flourish. That may mean a trade or a change of coaches.

[kishoph]

Chris_in_UT, on 04 February 2012 - 03:32 PM, said:

I don't. Even over the course of the last few weeks, he's shown improvement. I think he'll always be able to be knocked off the puck; that's just a size/strength thing, which we know works against.

Yes, he's been "bust-worthy" for most of the season. I don't think he's played well much at all, but I don't think we've seen the best from him yet, either. I don't think anyone has ... but right now he's ours, and *when* he hits his stride, he's going to be in blue and gold ... if Regier doesn't do something stupid first.

He has skill, he has shown it in the past, but I don't think we'll see it in this system.

bunomatic, on 04 February 2012 - 03:48 PM, said:

I want desperately to believe that this is a down season for him and that his best is yet to come. He has shown improvement in the past few games but the team as a whole has shown improvement imo because of their renewed commitment to team defence. I also believe if or when Leino gets out of Lindys system he will flourish. That may mean a trade or a change of coaches.

This is the same way I feel about Leino's future success.

[Kristian]

bunomatic, on 04 February 2012 - 03:48 PM, said:

I want desperately to believe that this is a down season for him and that his best is yet to come. He has shown improvement in the past few games but the team as a whole has shown improvement imo because of their renewed commitment to team defence. I also believe if or when Leino gets out of Lindys system he will flourish. That may mean a trade or a change of coaches.

Pretty much goes for 90% of the roster though, perhaps barring Roy and Stafford.

[LTS]

Can you accurately judge much of anyone this year? No matter how you cut it you have to believe that this year is an anomaly. We have past experience with players like Roy and Stafford but not so much with Leino. So, Leino gets on board and the entire roster goes into a massive scoring slump.

We've seen a lot of things from the Sabres this year and honestly other than knowing that they aren't put together to win a championship, I'm not sure who they are or how far they are away. You can read a million opinions on here about how to fix the Sabres but it ends there. They are opinions.

I think Leino started off extremely slow. I think he began to pick it up when he played with Kassian and Adam. He was injured and then got back up to speed. Over the past few weeks I think he's been one of the better forwards on the ice. He's controlled the puck better than most anyone else and he's made some creative plays which is what the Sabres wanted from him. I don't care if he's playing centre or wing, it's irrelevant as 5 guys cover the ice. The Sabres don't necessarily need centers so much as they need playmakers. Ennis is playing center now, Gaustad is playing wing and Pominville has been taking faceoffs more often this year.

I think Leino needs to be with a group that can finish. I think it will happen. The Sabres don't have 1 fearsome line let alone 2. As the Sabres begin to put it together I do think you'll see Vanek, Pominville, Kassian, Adam, Leino, and 1 solid playmaker to be named later as the top 6 forwards... two solid lines that will give other teams trouble.

Right now I'll take Leino every day of the week over Stafford and Roy both of whom make marginally less than Leino.

[bunomatic]

Kristian, on 04 February 2012 - 05:08 PM, said:

Pretty much goes for 90% of the roster though, perhaps barring Roy and Stafford.

True dat.

[DeLuca67]

If Carolina can dump Kaberle, maybe there is hope a team would want Leino.

[TrueBluePhD]

DeLuca67, on 04 February 2012 - 10:03 PM, said:

If Carolina can dump Kaberle, maybe there is hope a team would want Leino.

Don't forget the Rangers dumping Gomez a few years ago!

I honestly think Leino will be OK long term...I don't mean OK in the sense of "man he's earning every penny of that contract!" or "wow what a steal!" I mean OK as consistently playing well and getting 40ish points...still a bad contract, but not the complete abomination it has looked to be for most of this season. He's been playing decently for the most part recently, and I expect it to continue (and hopefully improve).

Who knows, maybe the next CBA has an NBA-style amnesty clause.

[tdflyers]

LTS, on 04 February 2012 - 05:23 PM, said:

Can you accurately judge much of anyone this year?

Kind of what I was thinking. It's hard for me to believe that a player can just loose skill. I think it's a combination of a few things. He isn't this bad of a player. Streaky, no doubt, but this is beyond a streak.

bunomatic, on 04 February 2012 - 03:48 PM, said:

I also believe if or when Leino gets out of Lindys system he will flourish.

I think this also. I'm not going to pretend to know Ruff's system but Lavy's is pretty open and attack minded. D-men always join the rush. Many of Lieno's skills showed through when he was the trailing man in an odd man rush. He would hold the puck and make the right pass 80% of the time. Especially when someone like Briere was able to get open on the side of the net. It was perfect for Ville.

Derrico, on 04 February 2012 - 12:58 PM, said:

Firstly, you don't have to tell us Briere's strengths, unfortunately we know them.

Sorry, wasn't trying to bring up the past.

Edited by tdflyers, 05 February 2012 - 09:47 AM.

[nfreeman]

LTS, on 04 February 2012 - 05:23 PM, said:

Can you accurately judge much of anyone this year? No matter how you cut it you have to believe that this year is an anomaly. We have past experience with players like Roy and Stafford but not so much with Leino. So, Leino gets on board and the entire roster goes into a massive scoring slump.

We've seen a lot of things from the Sabres this year and honestly other than knowing that they aren't put together to win a championship, I'm not sure who they are or how far they are away. You can read a million opinions on here about how to fix the Sabres but it ends there. They are opinions.

I think Leino started off extremely slow. I think he began to pick it up when he played with Kassian and Adam. He was injured and then got back up to speed. Over the past few weeks I think he's been one of the better forwards on the ice. He's controlled the puck better than most anyone else and he's made some creative plays which is what the Sabres wanted from him. I don't care if he's playing centre or wing, it's irrelevant as 5 guys cover the ice. The Sabres don't necessarily need centers so much as they need playmakers. Ennis is playing center now, Gaustad is playing wing and Pominville has been taking faceoffs more often this year.

I think Leino needs to be with a group that can finish. I think it will happen. The Sabres don't have 1 fearsome line let alone 2. As the Sabres begin to put it together I do think you'll see Vanek, Pominville, Kassian, Adam, Leino, and 1 solid playmaker to be named later as the top 6 forwards... two solid lines that will give other teams trouble.

Right now I'll take Leino every day of the week over Stafford and Roy both of whom make marginally less than Leino.

Good post, although I have serious doubts about Adam. I completely agree with the bolded part.

As for Leino, I like a lot of what I've seen from him. I think he plays a pretty tough game, is good on the forecheck and has a high hockey IQ. I definitely think he needs to play with finishers to be effective. If Stafford hadn't gone completely into the tank this year - ie if he were finishing like he is capable of doing, and like he did last year - I think we might feel differently about Leino.

Bottom line IMHO is that (i) most UFAs are overpaid and (ii) most UFAs who are not true elite players take time to adjust to new systems, coaches, teammates, etc. I think Leino falls into both of these categories. I expect though that over the long term Leino will be a good, consistent 2-way player for the Sabres and that his contract won't be viewed as a disaster.

[Sabres Fan In NS]

nfreeman, on 05 February 2012 - 10:04 AM, said:

As for Leino, I like a lot of what I've seen from him. I think he plays a pretty tough game, is good on the forecheck and has a high hockey IQ. I definitely think he needs to play with finishers to be effective. If Stafford hadn't gone completely into the tank this year - ie if he were finishing like he is capable of doing, and like he did last year - I think we might feel differently about Leino.

Bottom line IMHO is that (i) most UFAs are overpaid and (ii) most UFAs who are not true elite players take time to adjust to new systems, coaches, teammates, etc. I think Leino falls into both of these categories. I expect though that over the long term Leino will be a good, consistent 2-way player for the Sabres and that his contract won't be viewed as a disaster.

I agree with your assessment.

Leino's body of work with the Sabres has not been long enough to make a true asssessment going forward. Based on his work with the Flyers he should be a good member of the Sabres. Provided the Sabres make an effort to put Leinio into the situations, with the correct players around him, that will maximize the chances of his success ... much like the Flyers did.

[716]

First half we saw flashes of what Leino could be but it was lost in the abysmal team performance, then he got hurt. Now the Sabres are looking like they're not going to give up and players are starting to play again. To me, Leino's strength is protecting the puck. I haven't seen much else with his shot or anything else. One reason is they keep switching linemates on him.

[wjag]

For the 2011-2012 Buffalo Sabres, only one word comes to mind: BUST.

Maybe next year...

[Who Else?]

Why does Leino refuse to pass or shoot on his forehand. That last goal he scored was a forehand beauty. After that goal in the same game he gave the puck away three times with that weak backhand back pass thing he does. I liked the guy in Detroit and Philly, maybe he needs a different kind of coach. If Leino can't figure out that blind, weak back passes are bad and the stick is curved for a reason, maybe someone should insist he learn the lesson

Leino moves the puck to the boards way too much. He has no move to get it out of there either by passing or skating it. I know he's good. Definately overpaid. If LIndy's "sytem'' is puck possesion, the weak passes and turnovers along the boards need to stop. Take the puck to the center of the ice on the forehand and fire the damn thing at the net.

[LoveAndWarrener]

Billy Fuccillo, on 04 February 2012 - 01:49 PM, said:

Ville Leino is beyond awful, and now we're stuck with this loser for 5 more years after our idiot GM with a girl's first name gets canned.

Wow, these are really insightful criticisms of the GM. Also, why don't we get rid of Robyn Regehr? And God forbid we ever got somebody like Sidney Crosby, or Marian Gaborik. Because girls are dumb, and those names sound like girl names.
[/I'm five]

[qwksndmonster]

LoveAndWarrener, on 05 February 2012 - 02:44 PM, said:

Wow, these are really insightful criticisms of the GM. Also, why don't we get rid of Robyn Regehr? And God forbid we ever got somebody like Sidney Crosby, or Marian Gaborik. Because girls are dumb, and those names sound like girl names.
[/I'm five]

After watching Regher play, I no longer even think of Robyn as a girl's name.

[fan2456]

<sup>I came a little late to the party and this is in response to tdflyer’s original post. I have the opportunity to watch home games in person, which gives a different look at the game. You can watch the game away from the puck, but you miss replays. You are also immune to announcer bias and interpretation. Some of that’s good, some bad.

I like a lot of Leino’s game, but it has to be a cultural shock coming from one of the more physical and nasty teams in hockey, to one of the softest in the NHL. He’s looked better in recent games, but looked his best to me while playing with Adam and Kassian earlier this year. That size and willingness to play down low, seemed to help his game. He’s looked lost and confused about what is expected of him for most of the year. I haven’t given up on him at all, and only hope that he is an early piece of what Darcy envisions of the future; surrounding him with pieces that can win in today’s NHL. If you’ve read any of my previous posts, you will know I have little confidence in DR or LR to lead us to the Promised Land. Despite our(Buffalo's) infatuation with the Flyers style and the fact they have won two cups, I believe they haven’t won in 36 years, while Buffalo stands at 41 and an ugly zero in cups. Neither has a very good recent history of winning the cup..</sup>

Edited by fan2456, 05 February 2012 - 04:39 PM.

[themaze2332]

LTS, on 04 February 2012 - 05:23 PM, said:

Can you accurately judge much of anyone this year? No matter how you cut it you have to believe that this year is an anomaly. We have past experience with players like Roy and Stafford but not so much with Leino. So, Leino gets on board and the entire roster goes into a massive scoring slump.

We've seen a lot of things from the Sabres this year and honestly other than knowing that they aren't put together to win a championship, I'm not sure who they are or how far they are away. You can read a million opinions on here about how to fix the Sabres but it ends there. They are opinions.

I think Leino started off extremely slow. I think he began to pick it up when he played with Kassian and Adam. He was injured and then got back up to speed. Over the past few weeks I think he's been one of the better forwards on the ice. He's controlled the puck better than most anyone else and he's made some creative plays which is what the Sabres wanted from him. I don't care if he's playing centre or wing, it's irrelevant as 5 guys cover the ice. The Sabres don't necessarily need centers so much as they need playmakers. Ennis is playing center now, Gaustad is playing wing and Pominville has been taking faceoffs more often this year.

I think Leino needs to be with a group that can finish. I think it will happen. The Sabres don't have 1 fearsome line let alone 2. As the Sabres begin to put it together I do think you'll see Vanek, Pominville, Kassian, Adam, Leino, and 1 solid playmaker to be named later as the top 6 forwards... two solid lines that will give other teams trouble.

Right now I'll take Leino every day of the week over Stafford and Roy both of whom make marginally less than Leino.

I like your thoughts. I thought Ville stepped up last night with Vanek out. I have CI and even the NYI announcers were saying how he was all over the ice last night. He had a very slow start. I was very much disappointed in his acquisition. But he is coming into his own little by little recently and I am hoping when he gets into his groove, he is going to blow our minds. Your last statement speaks volumes as I agree whole-heartedly. Yes, he is making lots of money, but he does not take nights off and play non-chalant like Roy and Stafford do. He works, he tries to set people up, he tries to make plays. And, while all of his decisions may not be the best ones or the ones we wanted him to make, at least he is doing SOMETHING. Underneath the huge contract and small frame, he has heart and determination. That has a lot of worth on this team.

Is he Brad Richards? No. Is he making plays worth his contract? Not just yet. Is he at least giving 100% every game? Yes. And that is a step in the right direction.

[Tyrannustyrannus]

one thing is for sure, I would sell raffle tickets to fans and let the winner take a shot in the shootout before I would ever let Leino ever try again.

[spndnchz]

Anyone notice that Roy's goal was almost exactly the same play as when leino blindly backpassed the other game? Only this time Roy hesitated, trailed and scored.

[SwampD]

spndnchz, on 06 February 2012 - 07:48 AM, said:

Anyone notice that Roy's goal was almost exactly the same play as when leino blindly backpassed the other game? Only this time Roy hesitated, trailed and scored.

Ya know, when lines are kept together for more than 3 shifts, that kinda stuff tends to happen.

[tdflyers]

fan2456, on 05 February 2012 - 04:36 PM, said:

^{Despite our(Buffalo's) infatuation with the Flyers style and the fact they have won two cups, I believe they haven’t won in 36 years, while Buffalo stands at 41 and an ugly zero in cups. Neither has a very good recent history of winning the cup..}

Might be good to look at Detroit's style before Philly's.

Tyrannustyrannus, on 05 February 2012 - 10:54 PM, said:

one thing is for sure, I would sell raffle tickets to fans and let the winner take a shot in the shootout before I would ever let Leino ever try again.

Leino in the shootout? Not a good choice. Does Ruff make these decisions?

[LabattBlue]

I'm normally not one to get fired up about spelling mistakes, but could one of the mods fix the spelling of Leino in the title of this thread. Thx.

[tdflyers]

LabattBlue, on 06 February 2012 - 09:11 AM, said:

I'm normally not one to get fired up about spelling mistakes, but could one of the mods fix the spelling of Leino in the title of this thread. Thx.

There's got to be more to get fired up about than that?
Sorry about that.

[LTS]

SwampD, on 06 February 2012 - 07:54 AM, said:

Ya know, when lines are kept together for more than 3 shifts, that kinda stuff tends to happen.

Careful now.. talk like that will allow those blaming injuries to speak up and try to justify their cause.

[JKB1646]

To me Lieno is like a lot of European forwards, smoother skater, nice stick kandling skills, sweet passers, skates big circles, have no clue what back checking is, non aggressive and rarely shows signs of life unless the puck is on their stick and there is an opportunity to score. These types of players need a compliment of quality true blue NHLers around them to be successful. Same old reason why they have rarely shined when they get to the NHL. OVI is a great example of a european skater with talent who is LAZY. Its not the Lindy system its the player.

[Who Else?]

JKB1646, on 06 February 2012 - 01:29 PM, said:

To me Lieno is like a lot of European forwards, smoother skater, nice stick kandling skills, sweet passers, skates big circles, have no clue what back checking is, non aggressive and rarely shows signs of life unless the puck is on their stick and there is an opportunity to score. These types of players need a compliment of quality true blue NHLers around them to be successful. Same old reason why they have rarely shined when they get to the NHL. OVI is a great example of a european skater with talent who is LAZY. Its not the Lindy system its the player.

Couldn't disagree more. Though I don't like what Leino is doing this year (see my post above) he does not look like Semin floating around out there. Ovechkin is a bad example. I can't stand the guy, but I'm sure we would all be enamored if Leino was plying like him.

[spndnchz]

LabattBlue, on 06 February 2012 - 09:11 AM, said:

I'm normally not one to get fired up about spelling mistakes, but could one of the mods fix the spelling of Leino in the title of this thread. Thx.

Leaving it to show the true intelligence of a Flyers fan.

[tdflyers]

spndnchz, on 06 February 2012 - 01:56 PM, said:

Leaving it to show the true intelligence of a Flyers fan.

Really? Spelling = Intelligence?
Just trying to talk some hockey.

[inkman]

tdflyers, on 06 February 2012 - 02:35 PM, said:

Really? Spelling = Intelligence?
Just trying to talk some hockey.

In my world, which I imagine overlaps most of the real world, spelling has a direct correlation to intelligence.

Ponificating about sports is like the old adage on opinions, they're like ######, everyone has one.

[Sabres Fan In NS]

inkman, on 06 February 2012 - 02:41 PM, said:

In my world, which I imagine overlaps most of the real world, spelling has a direct correlation to intelligence.

Ponificating about sports is like the old adage on opinions, they're like ######, everyone has one.

I believe you meant pontificating ... probably just a simple typo ... .

Maybe we should just give the new kid the same courtesy.

Edited by Sabres Fan In NS, 06 February 2012 - 02:52 PM.

[shrader]

inkman, on 06 February 2012 - 02:41 PM, said:

In my world, which I imagine overlaps most of the real world, spelling has a direct correlation to intelligence.

Ponificating about sports is like the old adage on opinions, they're like ######, everyone has one.

One's ability to pick up on sarcasm is always valuable in my mind too.

[Sabres Fan In NS]

tdflyers, on 06 February 2012 - 02:35 PM, said:

Really? Spelling = Intelligence?
Just trying to talk some hockey.

You are new to the board, so it will take some time to get your sarcasm meter tuned up.

[spndnchz]

Sabres Fan In NS, on 06 February 2012 - 02:55 PM, said:

You are new to the board, so it will take some time to get your sarcasm meter tuned up.

I was being sarcastic?

[inkman]

shrader, on 06 February 2012 - 02:53 PM, said:

One's ability to pick up on sarcasm is always valuable in my mind too.

Perhaps I'm an idiot, always a real possibility, but was chz being sarcastic or just snide?

spndnchz, on 06 February 2012 - 03:04 PM, said:

I was being sarcastic?

Still not sure. Emoticons usually are key in these situations. :-/

[Sabres Fan In NS]

spndnchz, on 06 February 2012 - 03:04 PM, said:

I was being sarcastic?

I would like to think so, but only you know for sure ... .