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#41 Glass Case Of Emotion

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 11:40 AM

View Postkorab rules, on 10 November 2011 - 11:35 AM, said:

There is a huge difference between an assault and witnessing a 50 some year old guy sodomizing a 10 year old in a shower.  This was an institutional coverup the likes of which I have never seen.  Everyone looked the other way and allowed it to continue.  They should ban PSU athletics for a decade.

It is the most heinous of crimes, and it goes beyond the athletic department, it implicates the entire university. Shut it down and build a new one somewhere else.

#42 Spndnchz

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 11:43 AM

View Postbiodork, on 10 November 2011 - 11:39 AM, said:

I don't disagree about the cover-up, but banning PSU athletics would unfairly punish the students who had nothing to do with this.  Throw out everyone in charge who's even remotely involved and start over from scratch.

I agree with this.  The cult that is PSU football needs to stop.  Clean house.

You wouldn't close the Church after finding out about a priest.  That's punishing the parish.

#43 korab rules

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 11:50 AM

View Postbiodork, on 10 November 2011 - 11:39 AM, said:

I don't disagree about the cover-up, but banning PSU athletics would unfairly punish the students who had nothing to do with this.  Throw out everyone in charge who's even remotely involved and start over from scratch.
And taking away scholarships for recruiting violations by the university unfairly punishes players who had nothing to do with this.  This is the biggest and most serious NCAA violation in the history of the world.  My initial thought was to burn the university to the ground.  I scaled it back to a decade ban.

This is so grotesque, corrupt and immoral that I almost have trouble believing it could happen in today's world.  It deserves to be punished accordingly.  Since the NCAA isn't allowed to order hanging by the testicles until death, this is all I could come up with.

View Postspndnchz, on 10 November 2011 - 11:43 AM, said:

I agree with this.  The cult that is PSU football needs to stop.  Clean house.

You wouldn't close the Church after finding out about a priest.  That's punishing the parish.
Is it punishing the parrish or saving them?  Kids can transfer.  Athletic eligibility will be maintained.  But the University that allowed this abuse to continue, that covered up all evidence of it to protect itself, deserves to punished severely.  Don't forget that they knew about it and covered it up to protect themselves.They put their own interest above those poor innocent kids, and allowed more innocent kids to be abused in the process. :sick:

#44 That Aud Smell

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 11:53 AM

View PostLastPommerFan, on 10 November 2011 - 11:32 AM, said:

I honestly believe that JoePa was in denial that this was actually happening.
imagine being a guy who has been that powerful, that revered for that long, and you're 80+ years old. i don't condone it, but i do understand how he became so deluded, so out of touch, so disconnected that he thought it was okay to go forward the way he did.

View Postbiodork, on 10 November 2011 - 11:39 AM, said:

I don't disagree about the cover-up, but banning PSU athletics would unfairly punish the students who had nothing to do with this.  Throw out everyone in charge who's even remotely involved and start over from scratch.
in the twisted world of the ncaa, i think you are right. the ncaa president has already intimated that there would be no punishment because there were no student athletes involved (as in miami, ohio state) and nothing that happened was to the competitive advantage of the program.

still, from a PR standpoint, the ncaa will have a problem with punishing a school that permitted an agent to have contact with players or turned a blind eye when kids sold their gear for spending money, but allows a program to skate where, at its highest level, the AD was knowingly protecting a serial pederast. that's tough stuff right there. did you hear the story of the holland high school girls soccer team that wasn't allowed to play in the sectionals because of an honest scheduling error by an administrator? the kids were not to blame, but did have to bear the consequence. i'm not sure why this should be different.

#45 weave

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 11:59 AM

View Postkorab rules, on 10 November 2011 - 11:35 AM, said:

There is a huge difference between an assault and witnessing a 50 some year old guy sodomizing a 10 year old in a shower.  This was an institutional coverup the likes of which I have never seen.  Everyone looked the other way and allowed it to continue.  They should ban PSU athletics for a decade.

There is a huge difference in the crime.  But in either case you've got a situation where a young man has to confront his bosses, go outside of rank, and risk losing his job to do the right thing.  i would have no problem whatsoever doing that as a 45 yr old.  I don't know that I had the stones to do it when I was 23 and in my first real job and living on my own.

I am torn about banning PSU athletics.  At bare minimum there should be a complete top to bottom cleansing of personnel.  Bare minimum.  Additional sanction most certainly is warranted.  The NCAA needs to send the strongest message that coverup along these lines won't be tolerated.  But I can't sit here and say I know what the correct level of sanction is.

#46 apuszczalowski

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 12:00 PM

View PostThat Aud Smell, on 10 November 2011 - 10:31 AM, said:

the grad assistant probably has a hard time sleeping at night, as well he should.

but joepa is going to be held to a higher standard, a much higher standard, than the grad assistant, as well he should.

also:
But why? The Grad student was the one who actually witnessed the act. it becomes heresay from anyone else he tells because they can only go by what they are told by the grad student.

my point is, where is the level where the person reporting it is no longer responsible once they report it to someone higher?

#47 Glass Case Of Emotion

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 12:05 PM

I will say this whole thing makes me want vomit. A whole string of adults, specifically charged with helping develop (albeit older) kids, tacitly condoning this abomination. This is the kind of ###### that keeps the devil awake at night, wondering if he's doing a good enough job.

#48 Ghost of Dwight Drane

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 12:11 PM

View PostThat Aud Smell, on 10 November 2011 - 11:02 AM, said:

also tasting vomit in my mouth after hearing the latest rumors from people familiar with the investigation -- involving claims (i) that sandusky not only abused 2nd mile kids himself, but arranged for abuse by generous donors and (ii) indications that there was a straight quid pro quo for sandusky's retirement/promise to "sin no more" and the administration's pledge to cover up his past crimes.

Get a plunger ready. This story ain't goin nowhere.

#49 korab rules

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 12:35 PM

View Postweave, on 10 November 2011 - 11:59 AM, said:

There is a huge difference in the crime.  But in either case you've got a situation where a young man has to confront his bosses, go outside of rank, and risk losing his job to do the right thing.  i would have no problem whatsoever doing that as a 45 yr old.  I don't know that I had the stones to do it when I was 23 and in my first real job and living on my own.

I am torn about banning PSU athletics.  At bare minimum there should be a complete top to bottom cleansing of personnel.  Bare minimum.  Additional sanction most certainly is warranted.  The NCAA needs to send the strongest message that coverup along these lines won't be tolerated.  But I can't sit here and say I know what the correct level of sanction is.

I hear you on the assault, but even as a 23 year old I can't imagine that many people could look the other way after watching this guy sodomize a little boy.  Makes my stomach churn just thinking about it.  I'd be looking for a bat or a brick - the only reason I would call my dad is for advice on where to hide the body.

#50 shrader

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 12:42 PM

View PostThat Aud Smell, on 10 November 2011 - 11:53 AM, said:

imagine being a guy who has been that powerful, that revered for that long, and you're 80+ years old. i don't condone it, but i do understand how he became so deluded, so out of touch, so disconnected that he thought it was okay to go forward the way he did.


in the twisted world of the ncaa, i think you are right. the ncaa president has already intimated that there would be no punishment because there were no student athletes involved (as in miami, ohio state) and nothing that happened was to the competitive advantage of the program.

still, from a PR standpoint, the ncaa will have a problem with punishing a school that permitted an agent to have contact with players or turned a blind eye when kids sold their gear for spending money, but allows a program to skate where, at its highest level, the AD was knowingly protecting a serial pederast. that's tough stuff right there. did you hear the story of the holland high school girls soccer team that wasn't allowed to play in the sectionals because of an honest scheduling error by an administrator? the kids were not to blame, but did have to bear the consequence. i'm not sure why this should be different.

Like it or not, we're comparing violations that occurred on the field of play (illegal recruits, playing one to many games) to a situation that did not happen on the field.  That's why one costs a team their season and another doesn't.

#51 Oliver_Cromwell

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 12:42 PM

View PostOhiofan, on 09 November 2011 - 06:57 PM, said:

Disgusting.  Jim Tressel resigned over much less, IMO Paterno should have been thrown out the door.  He shouldn't be allowed to walk away on his own terms, he knew of the allegations...jeez...I just can't believe the school continued to let that sick son of a bitch Sandusky continue to use their space for his charity.

What the heck is wrong with this world we live in?  What possible attraction can a grown man have for young boys?  I can't even wrap my head around that! I almost left the Catholic Church over the wicked priest abomination...how widespread is this disgusting, sick, criminal fetish???  

It all just makes me sick.  I agree with the previous poster, I hope Pegula keeps his distance.
When I say this, I am not trying to make light of the situation. To have this blow up in Penn State's face is something that could have been avoided had someone come clean/reported it when it first happened. It never ceases to amaze me how people never learn from other's mistakes, misdeeds, and crimes. Nonetheless, this best explains the whole situation: It's called Total Depravity.

#52 korab rules

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 12:51 PM

View Postshrader, on 10 November 2011 - 12:42 PM, said:

Like it or not, we're comparing violations that occurred on the field of play (illegal recruits, playing one to many games) to a situation that did not happen on the field.  That's why one costs a team their season and another doesn't.
I diasgree with your characterization of recruiting violations as on the field of play.  In fact, almost every violation that is punished occurs off field  You believe the athletic department shouldn't be sanctioned for the misdeeds of the athletic department?  They hid this because they were afraid of being punished and tarnishing their image. they traded the lives of little boys for football games. ###### them. I am back to wanting to burn the school down.

#53 nfreeman

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 01:07 PM

View Postkorab rules, on 10 November 2011 - 11:24 AM, said:

According to the reports, he witnessed Sandusky sodomizing a kid in the shower.  Any red blooded american witnesses that, and there wouldn't be enough of Sandusky left to bother burying.

View Postkorab rules, on 10 November 2011 - 12:35 PM, said:

I hear you on the assault, but even as a 23 year old I can't imagine that many people could look the other way after watching this guy sodomize a little boy.  Makes my stomach churn just thinking about it.  I'd be looking for a bat or a brick - the only reason I would call my dad is for advice on where to hide the body.
I believe in due process of law, but multiple instances with eyewitnesses?  That's enough proof of guilt for me.

This is a man who needed to be beaten to a bloody pulp and then castrated, killed or imprisoned for life.  Child molesters don't get rehabilitated.  They don't stop unless they are stopped.

#54 Spndnchz

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 01:07 PM

View Postkorab rules, on 10 November 2011 - 12:35 PM, said:

I hear you on the assault, but even as a 23 year old I can't imagine that many people could look the other way after watching this guy sodomize a little boy.  Makes my stomach churn just thinking about it.  I'd be looking for a bat or a brick - the only reason I would call my dad is for advice on where to hide the body.

There were 8 victims of this guy. EIGHT.  Multiple people knew it was happening.  From the parents, to high school football and wrestling coaches, to athletic directors, to the graduate assistant, to Paterno, to VP's and President of PSU, to Director of Campus Police to even janitors.  When will people wake the ###### up.

#55 2ForTripping

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 01:15 PM

View Postspndnchz, on 10 November 2011 - 11:43 AM, said:

I agree with this.  The cult that is PSU football needs to stop.  Clean house.

You wouldn't close the Church after finding out about a priest.  That's punishing the parish.
Punishing the parish? Really?  Even the old biddies down @ Our Lady of Perpetual Sorrow  should be sickened by the fact that their priest was a pervert rapist. Talk about cults.

#56 korab rules

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 01:15 PM

View Postspndnchz, on 10 November 2011 - 01:07 PM, said:

There were 8 victims of this guy. EIGHT.  Multiple people knew it was happening.  From the parents, to high school football and wrestling coaches, to athletic directors, to the graduate assistant, to Paterno, to VP's and President of PSU, to Director of Campus Police to even janitors.  When will people wake the ###### up.

This is why I say ban the entire god damned program. Fire every last one of them. Start over from scratch in 10 years. This is the most serious violation ever. It deserves the most serious punishment ever.

#57 Oliver_Cromwell

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 01:16 PM

View Postspndnchz, on 10 November 2011 - 11:43 AM, said:

I agree with this.  The cult that is PSU football needs to stop.  Clean house.

You wouldn't close the Church after finding out about a priest.  That's punishing the parish.
It happens in churches that claim to be "Protestant" as well.

Wow. Talk about the intensity of the invectives on this thread! I haven't seen such righteous indignation ever on this forum.

I have to wonder if PSU is ever going to recover from this embarrassment.

Edited by Crosschecking, 10 November 2011 - 01:20 PM.


#58 RR61

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 01:25 PM

A hockey writer from Wisconsin tweeted today that Terry Pegula is going make some sort of statement soon, which will include a commitment to continue his support of PSU hockey.

#59 LabattBlue

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 01:26 PM

I'm not sure what all the "23 year old" references are about, but if you are talking about McQuery, he was 28 at the time when he witnessed the act.  Not exactly some naive kid who didn't know any better.

#60 shrader

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 01:34 PM

View Postkorab rules, on 10 November 2011 - 12:51 PM, said:

I diasgree with your characterization of recruiting violations as on the field of play.  In fact, almost every violation that is punished occurs off field  You believe the athletic department shouldn't be sanctioned for the misdeeds of the athletic department?  They hid this because they were afraid of being punished and tarnishing their image. they traded the lives of little boys for football games. ###### them. I am back to wanting to burn the school down.

So violating recruiting rules so that you can get a better team on the field doesn't impact what happens on the field of play?

And this isn't about what I do and don't think.  This is how the NCAA handles things.

#61 Oliver_Cromwell

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 01:35 PM

View PostLabattBlue, on 10 November 2011 - 01:26 PM, said:

I'm not sure what all the "23 year old" references are about, but if you are talking about McQuery, he was 28 at the time when he witnessed the act.  Not exactly some naive kid who didn't know any better.
People do know better. The problem is collective apathy. Then, when "you-know-what" hits the fan(s) and splatters all over the place, then there's collective outrage.

#62 Ohiofan

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 01:45 PM

View PostCrosschecking, on 10 November 2011 - 01:16 PM, said:

It happens in churches that claim to be "Protestant" as well.

Wow. Talk about the intensity of the invectives on this thread! I haven't seen such righteous indignation ever on this forum.

I have to wonder if PSU is ever going to recover from this embarrassment.

I hope they never recover, let them be forever tainted.

It's kids, man.  Kids.  Little people whom we are entrusted to protect.  We all, as adults and human beings, have an absolute duty to the future of humankind to look out for the little ones.  Everyone involved had a moral obligation to report these incidents, and keep reporting them, until it was stopped.  I don't care if you are a president or a grad student, if you kept your mouth shut, or didnt see that someone...anyone...moved on this, you are guilty guilty guilty.

#63 korab rules

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 02:04 PM

View PostOhiofan, on 10 November 2011 - 01:45 PM, said:

I hope they never recover, let them be forever tainted.

It's kids, man.  Kids.  Little people whom we are entrusted to protect.  We all, as adults and human beings, have an absolute duty to the future of humankind to look out for the little ones.  Everyone involved had a moral obligation to report these incidents, and keep reporting them, until it was stopped.  I don't care if you are a president or a grad student, if you kept your mouth shut, or didnt see that someone...anyone...moved on this, you are guilty guilty guilty.
Leave it to a mother to sum it up perfectly.

#64 biodork

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 02:10 PM

This is a bit long, but it makes you think about the other side of the story:

http://no-boxes-allo...oe-paterno.html

#65 korab rules

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 02:12 PM

View Postshrader, on 10 November 2011 - 01:34 PM, said:

So violating recruiting rules so that you can get a better team on the field doesn't impact what happens on the field of play?

And this isn't about what I do and don't think.  This is how the NCAA handles things.
And one member of a football coaching staff failing to report a crime by another member of the football coaching staff that would sink a defensive coordinator, a head coach, an entire football department, the athletic director, and taint an entire University doesn't impact what happens on the field of play?

I know what you are saying, and I realize the NCAA works in very mysterious ways, but if the NCAA decides that nothing occurred here worthy of a sanction, then I don't know what to say.

#66 Oliver_Cromwell

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 02:24 PM

View Postkorab rules, on 10 November 2011 - 02:12 PM, said:

And one member of a football coaching staff failing to report a crime by another member of the football coaching staff that would sink a defensive coordinator, a head coach, an entire football department, the athletic director, and taint an entire University doesn't impact what happens on the field of play?

I know what you are saying, and I realize the NCAA works in very mysterious ways, but if the NCAA decides that nothing occurred here worthy of a sanction, then I don't know what to say.
I would expect the NCAA to do something about it for the sole purpose of protecting whatever image they have through their PR department.

#67 nfreeman

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 02:32 PM

If anyone wants to read the gory details:  here they are.

#68 That Aud Smell

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 02:36 PM

Quote

View Postshrader, on 10 November 2011 - 12:42 PM, said:

Like it or not, we're comparing violations that occurred on the field of play (illegal recruits, playing one to many games) to a situation that did not happen on the field.  That's why one costs a team their season and another doesn't.

View Postkorab rules, on 10 November 2011 - 12:51 PM, said:

I diasgree with your characterization of recruiting violations as on the field of play.  In fact, almost every violation that is punished occurs off field  You believe the athletic department shouldn't be sanctioned for the misdeeds of the athletic department?  They hid this because they were afraid of being punished and tarnishing their image. they traded the lives of little boys for football games. ###### them. I am back to wanting to burn the school down.

View Postshrader, on 10 November 2011 - 01:34 PM, said:

So violating recruiting rules so that you can get a better team on the field doesn't impact what happens on the field of play?

And this isn't about what I do and don't think.  This is how the NCAA handles things.

View Postkorab rules, on 10 November 2011 - 02:12 PM, said:

And one member of a football coaching staff failing to report a crime by another member of the football coaching staff that would sink a defensive coordinator, a head coach, an entire football department, the athletic director, and taint an entire University doesn't impact what happens on the field of play?

I know what you are saying, and I realize the NCAA works in very mysterious ways, but if the NCAA decides that nothing occurred here worthy of a sanction, then I don't know what to say.
the debate here is with two posters whom i respect immensely.

here's where i come out: miami violated ncaa by-laws by allowing recruits and players to be wined and dined by agents and boosters (that's the general flavor, right?) with the idea that the program, the brand, would be thereby made more attractive to players and recruits, and thus the product on the field would improve because the quality of players would be better. penn state violated criminal statutes (and abetted violations of the laws of nature) with the idea that the program, the brand, would consequently remain attractive to players and recruits, and thus the product on the field would remain excellent.

this is what i meant when i replied to bio saying that she was probably right, but only in the twisted world of the ncaa.

#69 shrader

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 03:01 PM

View PostThat Aud Smell, on 10 November 2011 - 02:36 PM, said:

the debate here is with two posters whom i respect immensely.

here's where i come out: miami violated ncaa by-laws by allowing recruits and players to be wined and dined by agents and boosters (that's the general flavor, right?) with the idea that the program, the brand, would be thereby made more attractive to players and recruits, and thus the product on the field would improve because the quality of players would be better. penn state violated criminal statutes (and abetted violations of the laws of nature) with the idea that the program, the brand, would consequently remain attractive to players and recruits, and thus the product on the field would remain excellent.

this is what i meant when i replied to bio saying that she was probably right, but only in the twisted world of the ncaa.

And the criminal matters are handled exactly where they should be, in the courts.  If the NCAA wants to step in, that's fine, but they won't do a thing until the criminal process is completed.

The big lesson I'm getting out of all of this though is that if you witness a heinous crime, screw the company and the chain of command.  Report it yourself.  The more people you introduce into the process, the more likely it is to be lost in the shuffle.

#70 Oliver_Cromwell

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 03:08 PM

View Postnfreeman, on 10 November 2011 - 02:32 PM, said:

If anyone wants to read the gory details:  here they are.
There is nothing more infuriating than taking advantage of someone's horrible circumstances. If Sandusky is convicted, I see him going the way of John Geoghan.

#71 biodork

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 03:17 PM

Statement from Terry Pegula:

http://sabres.nhl.co...s.htm?id=600153

#72 korab rules

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 03:17 PM

View Postshrader, on 10 November 2011 - 03:01 PM, said:

And the criminal matters are handled exactly where they should be, in the courts.  If the NCAA wants to step in, that's fine, but they won't do a thing until the criminal process is completed.

The big lesson I'm getting out of all of this though is that if you witness a heinous crime, screw the company and the chain of command.  Report it yourself.  The more people you introduce into the process, the more likely it is to be lost in the shuffle.

On this we can agree.

#73 Glass Case Of Emotion

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 03:25 PM

Ironically, I just applied to grad school through a program at work.

It's to earn a Company paid Masters in Supply Chain Management... :D


...from Penn State. :bag:

#74 Spndnchz

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 03:26 PM

View Postnfreeman, on 10 November 2011 - 02:32 PM, said:

If anyone wants to read the gory details:  here they are.

I read this earlier this morning.  Caution:  If you want to ###### up your day, read it.

A timeline of events:
http://espn.go.com/c...-sex-abuse-case

#75 Touched by Boyes

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 03:46 PM

View Postspndnchz, on 10 November 2011 - 03:26 PM, said:

I read this earlier this morning.  Caution:  If you want to ###### up your day, read it.

A timeline of events:
http://espn.go.com/c...-sex-abuse-case
the timeline you linked to further indicates that there are definitely some serious wrongdoings going on. It looks like numerous people at PSU knew what was going on fairly early on and continued to allow Sandusky access to the PSU campus and to young boys in the charity.

Disgusting stuff  :sick:

#76 shrader

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 03:58 PM

I just read the stuff specific to the grad assistant coach.  The whole thing just doesn't make much sense to me.  You call your father and not some sort of authority immediately?  His immediate thought was self-preservation and not the well-being of that 10 year old boy.  I say throw him in with the rest of them.

#77 korab rules

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 03:59 PM

View Postshrader, on 10 November 2011 - 03:58 PM, said:

I just read the stuff specific to the grad assistant coach.  The whole thing just doesn't make much sense to me.  You call your father and not some sort of authority immediately?  His immediate thought was self-preservation and not the well-being of that 10 year old boy.  I say throw him in with the rest of them.
Now you are talking!

#78 Oliver_Cromwell

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 04:02 PM

View PostLastPommerFan, on 10 November 2011 - 03:25 PM, said:

Ironically, I just applied to grad school through a program at work.

It's to earn a Company paid Masters in Supply Chain Management... :D


...from Penn State. :bag:
Will your company be reconsidering their obligation to Penn State and have you get your Master's elsewhere?

#79 Ghost of Dwight Drane

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 04:10 PM

View Postshrader, on 10 November 2011 - 03:58 PM, said:

I just read the stuff specific to the grad assistant coach.  The whole thing just doesn't make much sense to me.  You call your father and not some sort of authority immediately?  His immediate thought was self-preservation and not the well-being of that 10 year old boy.  I say throw him in with the rest of them.

This story is still going parabolic. The feds will follow the money trails on this and the good thing is, this story is so big right now there is no way to hush anybody up anymore.

Just pray that it is more about money and jobs for most of these guys. We saw what a structure like the church was able to get away with. I know it is hard for the average goodhearted person to even come close to imagining where some of this is going.

#80 eball

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 04:16 PM

I haven't read the entire thread, but the question that unfortunately keeps entering my mind is this:

Why did McQueary, a graduate assistant and former player no doubt in superior physical condition to a 50-something year old, merely "report" the incident after the fact rather than stepping in to save that poor youngster?

I hope he's losing sleep and tortured.  Friggin' coward.





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