Jump to content


Penn State debacle

off topic

  • Please log in to reply
563 replies to this topic

#1 Ghost of Dwight Drane

Ghost of Dwight Drane

    First Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,208 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 08 November 2011 - 07:14 PM

I haven't seen the Penn St. horror mentioned here, but it is of some relevance I would think. Considering the Sabres tight ties to the Penn St athletic department, I just wonder how deep down the rabbit hole this whole thing goes. The whole program could go up in flames.

I get a little nervous because Cliff Benson is the Financial Chair of Sandusky's "Second Mile" boys charity. As far as I can tell Pegula is only a hockey guy there, so hopefully the money trail and coverups don't make a draft this way.

This just sounds like a long haul situation.

#2 weave

weave

    Self-appointed Expert

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,439 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:in your head

Posted 08 November 2011 - 07:32 PM

Reprehensible conduct by what seems to be most of the football department leadership.

#3 Ghost of Dwight Drane

Ghost of Dwight Drane

    First Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,208 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 08 November 2011 - 07:50 PM

View Postweave, on 08 November 2011 - 07:32 PM, said:

Reprehensible conduct by what seems to be most of the football department leadership.

It's moving so fast, and if the AD gets nailed for covering up, can the whole athletic program go down?

The charity looks involved too, which is why I wonder who gets called to testify, etc.

Sick stuff. Matt Millen was even bawling. This is by far the most disgusting thing that one could do. Especially when people hide under a position of clout to get it done.

#4 inkman

inkman

    Fledgling Member of TSC

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,568 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fairport

Posted 08 November 2011 - 09:11 PM

I don't know how the school, the program or Joe Pa will not go up in flames.



That being said, the young men affected by the devil incarnate will have a harder time...

#5 bunomatic

bunomatic

    bunomatic

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,617 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Nanaimo,B.C.,Canada

Posted 08 November 2011 - 10:33 PM

Fry the bastard. Better yet throw him in general pop. Better yet hand him a gun in a dark room. No too easy. General pop.

#6 Ghost of Dwight Drane

Ghost of Dwight Drane

    First Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,208 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 09 November 2011 - 11:58 AM

I think we all need to stay tuned on this. They have been combing through the charity. Considering it was the conduit for all of the misdoings, and they were informed at least 3 times of it, this could get interesting. This isn't a Penn St. football problem, this is a Penn St. "family" problem.

#7 wonderbread

wonderbread

    Caveat emptor

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,031 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Pittsburgh

Posted 09 November 2011 - 12:09 PM

I consider myself a big Penn State fan. The cover up is disgusting. To act like nothing happened is beyond deplorable. To have this happen at an institution that prides itself on taking care of young people entrusted to it is shocking. To turn a blind eye is tantamount to letting it happen.

#8 That Aud Smell

That Aud Smell

    That Nostalgic Olfactory Blend

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,966 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Ecum Secum, Nova Scotia

Posted 09 November 2011 - 01:24 PM

i had no idea that benson was involved with second mile. yikes. it seems unlikely that the taint would reach pegula (he's just a donor, after all), but pegula & co. can't be feeling good about benson's association with a not-for-profit that has some serious, serious answering to do (to say nothing of its exposure for civil damages).

while we're at it, did you see this quote from joepa late last night regarding the victims? "The kids that were victims or whatever they want to say, I think we all ought to say a prayer for them. Tough life when people do certain things to you. But, anyway, you guys [the assembled students] have been great."

someone take that guy out to the woodshed and put him down.

#9 Ghost of Dwight Drane

Ghost of Dwight Drane

    First Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,208 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 09 November 2011 - 01:36 PM

View PostThat Aud Smell, on 09 November 2011 - 01:24 PM, said:

i had no idea that benson was involved with second mile. yikes. it seems unlikely that the taint would reach pegula (he's just a donor, after all), but pegula & co. can't be feeling good about benson's association with a not-for-profit that has some serious, serious answering to do (to say nothing of its exposure for civil damages).

while we're at it, did you see this quote from joepa late last night regarding the victims? "The kids that were victims or whatever they want to say, I think we all ought to say a prayer for them. Tough life when people do certain things to you. But, anyway, you guys [the assembled students] have been great."

someone take that guy out to the woodshed and put him down.

Sad...sad...

I didn't know about Benson either, but on the Sabres website it even lists him as the Financial Chair. He's the one who brought Pegula and the Athletic Director together to get the deal done. There is other crossing between Pegula's people and Second Mile, but it looks like a fairly big charity so that is to be expected. They are looking into the charity big time now. What is scary is that Sandusky littered these kids with all kinds of gifts and cash. If they came through the charity and certain kids were continually singled out for gifts, all the while the Charity was made aware 3 seperate times of incidents involving Sandusky.....it makes for some common sense questions. Hopefully it was just such a big operation that nobody paid attention.

Who would have thunk that a few months ago when I was harpooned for questioning predatory behavior of a coach and charity inappropriation....the 2 effect the Sabres and synergize out of thin air? Maybe Lieno will be the one diagnosed with a depth perception problem instead of Miller?

#10 That Aud Smell

That Aud Smell

    That Nostalgic Olfactory Blend

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,966 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Ecum Secum, Nova Scotia

Posted 09 November 2011 - 02:33 PM

View PostGhost of Dwight Drane, on 09 November 2011 - 01:36 PM, said:

What is scary is that Sandusky littered these kids with all kinds of gifts and cash. If they came through the charity and certain kids were continually singled out for gifts, all the while the Charity was made aware 3 seperate times of incidents involving Sandusky.....it makes for some common sense questions. Hopefully it was just such a big operation that nobody paid attention.
i heard a report indicating that the charity had received no fewer than 3 complaints of improper conduct on the guy's part. IMO, that charity is in big, big trouble -- the officers and directors are probably hoping that they are covered by a buh-billion dollar E&O (errors, omissions) policy.

View PostGhost of Dwight Drane, on 09 November 2011 - 01:36 PM, said:

Maybe Lieno will be the one diagnosed with a depth perception problem instead of Miller?
comedy.

#11 Ghost of Dwight Drane

Ghost of Dwight Drane

    First Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,208 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 09 November 2011 - 03:05 PM

View PostThat Aud Smell, on 09 November 2011 - 02:33 PM, said:

i heard a report indicating that the charity had received no fewer than 3 complaints of improper conduct on the guy's part. IMO, that charity is in big, big trouble -- the officers and directors are probably hoping that they are covered by a buh-billion dollar E&O (errors, omissions) policy.


comedy.

The stories about the DA who was informed of this suddenly disappearing, and the same lawyers representing Penn St. and Second Mile make it even a bigger story.

Sadly, comedy and alcohol are about the only things to lean on when trying to make sense of the crazy place this has become.

Money, power and fame. Keeping the devil in business for 6,000 years  ;) That one's for X-checking...

#12 ubkev

ubkev

    Fourth Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 883 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Pennsyltucky via Upstate NY

Posted 09 November 2011 - 05:44 PM

Schopp and The Bulldog are absolutely killing the penn state scandal right now on WGR550. Pretty good show today.

#13 TheMatrix31

TheMatrix31

    30

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,736 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:California

Posted 09 November 2011 - 06:42 PM

Hope Pegula doesn't even comment on it. Nothing to gain by getting involved.

#14 Ohiofan

Ohiofan

    Fourth Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 597 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Buckeye Country

Posted 09 November 2011 - 06:57 PM

Disgusting.  Jim Tressel resigned over much less, IMO Paterno should have been thrown out the door.  He shouldn't be allowed to walk away on his own terms, he knew of the allegations...jeez...I just can't believe the school continued to let that sick son of a bitch Sandusky continue to use their space for his charity.

What the heck is wrong with this world we live in?  What possible attraction can a grown man have for young boys?  I can't even wrap my head around that! I almost left the Catholic Church over the wicked priest abomination...how widespread is this disgusting, sick, criminal fetish???  

It all just makes me sick.  I agree with the previous poster, I hope Pegula keeps his distance.

#15 Ghost of Dwight Drane

Ghost of Dwight Drane

    First Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,208 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 09 November 2011 - 07:10 PM

View PostTheMatrix31, on 09 November 2011 - 06:42 PM, said:

Hope Pegula doesn't even comment on it. Nothing to gain by getting involved.

It is in his best interest not to comment on it because the investigation is just getting rolling and who knows what will come of all this. This may hit close to home in one way or another. At the very least, the Kevin Bacon rule will be in full effect.

#16 LabattBlue

LabattBlue

    First Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,298 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Western New York

Posted 09 November 2011 - 10:31 PM

JoePa sent packing.  This is going to get worst as the days go by.

#17 X. Benedict

X. Benedict

    All Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,106 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 09 November 2011 - 10:35 PM

View PostLabattBlue, on 09 November 2011 - 10:31 PM, said:

JoePa sent packing.  This is going to get worst as the days go by.

The first sane decision there.

#18 Bmwolf21

Bmwolf21

    Habitual Line Stepper

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,838 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Parma Heights, OH by way of Orlando, Tallahassee and Niagara Falls

Posted 09 November 2011 - 11:40 PM

View PostX. Benedict, on 09 November 2011 - 10:35 PM, said:

The first sane decision there.
Yep.  Cleaning house now is the right move.  Up till now it has been a textbook case of "How to Mishandle a Crisis".  One of the legal analysts on CNN had a good point - hope Penn State is ready to write some checks to settle the civil cases that will be headed their way.  PSU will want to settle out of court so as to avoid more sordid details coming out in court.

Side note: PSU students marching in support of Joe Pa should go home and read the Grand Jury report/indictment.

#19 Ghost of Dwight Drane

Ghost of Dwight Drane

    First Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,208 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 10 November 2011 - 01:27 AM

To give you an idea of the level of depravity involved, Las Vegas has taken the game down for the night.

Buff News stating everything Sabres staying silent.

#20 weave

weave

    Self-appointed Expert

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,439 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:in your head

Posted 10 November 2011 - 07:05 AM

View PostBmwolf21, on 09 November 2011 - 11:40 PM, said:

Side note: PSU students marching in support of Joe Pa should go home and read the Grand Jury report/indictment.

Radio this AM on the way in to work said that some students were rioting over the decision.  WTF is wrong with people?  

Big time college sports is like a cult.

#21 716

716

    Third Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,637 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 10 November 2011 - 07:17 AM

from Penn State to State Pen.

#22 Bmwolf21

Bmwolf21

    Habitual Line Stepper

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,838 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Parma Heights, OH by way of Orlando, Tallahassee and Niagara Falls

Posted 10 November 2011 - 09:02 AM

View Postweave, on 10 November 2011 - 07:05 AM, said:

Radio this AM on the way in to work said that some students were rioting over the decision.  WTF is wrong with people?  

Big time college sports is like a cult.
Yes, some were.  Flipped over a news van with a least one person inside.  

Showing the level of stupidity:

Demonstrators tore down two lamp posts, one falling into a crowd. They also threw rocks and fireworks at the police, who responded with pepper spray. The crowd undulated like an accordion, with the students crowding the police and the officers pushing them back.

“We got rowdy, and we got maced,” Jeff Heim, 19, said rubbing his red, teary eyes. “But make no mistake, the board started this riot by firing our coach. They tarnished a legend.”


http://www.nytimes.c...-is-ousted.html

You stupid, ignorant self-centered idiot.  Joe Paterno tarnished Joe Paterno by allowing this predator to be on campus, to have access to children and refusing to call the police.  He knew about this was back in 98 when the first incident (again, showering with a boy) came out. All he had to do was the right thing.  It should never have come to this - Sandusky should be in prison and everyone would have praised PSU for doing the right thing.

#23 shrader

shrader

    National Oranization of Men Against Amazonian Masterhood

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,667 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Boston, MA

Posted 10 November 2011 - 09:24 AM

I'll say right at the start that I'm not trying to give anyone a free pass here.  I just read that the guy who originally reported this to Paterno is still employed and on the coaching staff.  He could have and should have reported it to the police just as much as anyone else higher up on the ladder who was informed.  Why does this guy still have a job?  The only thing that kept him from going to the police was his own greed.

#24 Glass Case Of Emotion

Glass Case Of Emotion

    Woah-Oh! We're half way there...

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,503 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rochester/Finger Lakes

Posted 10 November 2011 - 09:47 AM

Now I'm confused. According to the Grand Jury Presentment, Paterno reported the incident the VP of operations for the University. Who is the head of the University Police. So why are people saying he didn't go to the police?

#25 That Aud Smell

That Aud Smell

    That Nostalgic Olfactory Blend

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,966 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Ecum Secum, Nova Scotia

Posted 10 November 2011 - 09:51 AM

View Postshrader, on 10 November 2011 - 09:24 AM, said:

I'll say right at the start that I'm not trying to give anyone a free pass here.  I just read that the guy who originally reported this to Paterno is still employed and on the coaching staff.  He could have and should have reported it to the police just as much as anyone else higher up on the ladder who was informed.  Why does this guy still have a job?  
that's been a common complaint - why is mcqueary still employed? in my mind, the board has to triage this thing as best it can. the first order of business was to cut off the monster's head (the monster being the cover-up and such), and the head was the president and coach (the latter is a more important figurehead than the former). the board isn't done with its work; mcqueary probably gets fired along with a host of others.

View Postshrader, on 10 November 2011 - 09:24 AM, said:

The only thing that kept him from going to the police was his own greed.
i will say this. if you were the sort of person who was devoted to football your entire life, had managed to score a grad assistant position with the greatest football program in the country (in your eyes), then saw one of the team's coaches doing that unspeakable thing, and then reported it to your superiors ... you should, in theory, have done what you were supposed to do. your superiors should have been trusted to take appropriate action. that didn't happen.

now, at some point, mcqueary must have inferred that his superiors hadn't taken appropriate action against sandusky. here's where mcqueary made a creeping, ongoing error in judgment -- one that involved a lot of internal conversations, a lot of rationalization, and a lot of effort toward self-preservation and -promotion (i won't call it greed).

the foolish thing, i think, is for millions of people to ascend to their moral high horse and declaim from on high that they never, ever, ever, ever would have done what mcqueary did. never. in a million years.

and maybe that's so.

i happen to think that what mcqueary did, and did not do, is more closely linked to the human condition (defective, broken) than most people would care to believe.

i'm not excusing him. i am saying that people miss an opportunity for reflection and improvement of self if they judge mcqueary's actions as aberrant, and beyond the pale.

#26 That Aud Smell

That Aud Smell

    That Nostalgic Olfactory Blend

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,966 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Ecum Secum, Nova Scotia

Posted 10 November 2011 - 09:54 AM

View PostLastPommerFan, on 10 November 2011 - 09:47 AM, said:

Now I'm confused. According to the Grand Jury Presentment, Paterno reported the incident the VP of operations for the University. Who is the head of the University Police. So why are people saying he didn't go to the police?
the concern appears to be that he didn't go to an unbiased, outside police authority (one that didn't have a vested interest in protecting the institution); one associated with a criminal justice system that would have jurisdiction to prosecute sandusky.

also, after having reported to the VP of operations and ostensibly discharged his legal duty (which he probably he did), it appears that paterno was complicit in an arrangement that allowed sandusky to retire at an early age (55) in exchange for a cover-up of past criminal acts and continued access to PSU facilities.

paterno's failing may not have been a legal one, but it was a moral one. and it was a biggie.

#27 shrader

shrader

    National Oranization of Men Against Amazonian Masterhood

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,667 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Boston, MA

Posted 10 November 2011 - 09:59 AM

If reporting it to your superiors is enough, who was that spot in the chain of command where you're supposed to turn to the police?  Hey, I reported it to my boss, I've done all I can.  That kind of attitude will never fly with me.

I'd be curious to see how this guy interacted with Sandusky in the years following the incident.

#28 That Aud Smell

That Aud Smell

    That Nostalgic Olfactory Blend

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,966 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Ecum Secum, Nova Scotia

Posted 10 November 2011 - 10:14 AM

View Postshrader, on 10 November 2011 - 09:59 AM, said:

If reporting it to your superiors is enough, who was that spot in the chain of command where you're supposed to turn to the police?
it's legally sufficient, at least in PA. not sure what you mean by the other point -- are you saying who was obliged to take the matter to the state police?  mcqueary told paterno, and paterno told the AD (what's his name again?). it appears that the legal duty fell on the AD.

View Postshrader, on 10 November 2011 - 09:59 AM, said:

Hey, I reported it to my boss, I've done all I can. That kind of attitude will never fly with me.
as a guy who spent years as a mandated reported in new york, i could not agree more.

as for mcqueary's and sandusky's interactions in the years that followed, i imagine little to no words being exchanged, avoidance of eye contact, and awkward silences.

#29 apuszczalowski

apuszczalowski

    Commander of the Armies of the North

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,757 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 10 November 2011 - 10:16 AM

View Postshrader, on 10 November 2011 - 09:59 AM, said:

If reporting it to your superiors is enough, who was that spot in the chain of command where you're supposed to turn to the police?  Hey, I reported it to my boss, I've done all I can.  That kind of attitude will never fly with me.

I'd be curious to see how this guy interacted with Sandusky in the years following the incident.
- The Grad student is getting the free pass because he reported it to Paterno.
- Paterno has a Linch Mob after him because he reported it to his superior, who didn't do anything about it (allegedly) and he didn't follow up on it

So why is no one going after this grad student for not doing more?

If anything, the NCAA should be banning the entire program if its proved that the school covered up multiple occasions of this happening

#30 That Aud Smell

That Aud Smell

    That Nostalgic Olfactory Blend

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,966 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Ecum Secum, Nova Scotia

Posted 10 November 2011 - 10:31 AM

View Postapuszczalowski, on 10 November 2011 - 10:16 AM, said:

So why is no one going after this grad student for not doing more?
the grad assistant probably has a hard time sleeping at night, as well he should.

but joepa is going to be held to a higher standard, a much higher standard, than the grad assistant, as well he should.

also:

#31 shrader

shrader

    National Oranization of Men Against Amazonian Masterhood

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,667 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Boston, MA

Posted 10 November 2011 - 10:39 AM

View PostThat Aud Smell, on 10 November 2011 - 10:14 AM, said:

it's legally sufficient, at least in PA. not sure what you mean by the other point -- are you saying who was obliged to take the matter to the state police?  mcqueary told paterno, and paterno told the AD (what's his name again?). it appears that the legal duty fell on the AD.

It just seems stupid that all of a sudden the AD is the one who has to go to the police.  If Paterno and McWhatshisface* can take it to their superior, why can't the AD just wash his hands by taking it to someone like the school president?  It's dumb.  If one guy has the responsibility of taking a matter to the police, but the others don't have that same responsibility, it's a stupid double standard.  From a liability standard, ok, I can accept that, especially since that's already a system that's ridiculously screwed up.  From a legal standpoint though, I can't see why one guy would have any more responsibility than the last.


*And yes, I realize that me not even knowing his name is exactly why he currently has a job and Paterno does.

#32 LabattBlue

LabattBlue

    First Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,298 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Western New York

Posted 10 November 2011 - 10:39 AM

View PostThat Aud Smell, on 10 November 2011 - 10:14 AM, said:

it's legally sufficient, at least in PA. not sure what you mean by the other point -- are you saying who was obliged to take the matter to the state police?  mcqueary told paterno, and paterno told the AD (what's his name again?). it appears that the legal duty fell on the AD.


as a guy who spent years as a mandated reported in new york, i could not agree more.

as for mcqueary's and sandusky's interactions in the years that followed, i imagine little to no words being exchanged, avoidance of eye contact, and awkward silences.
I haven't read everything on this story.  Was it revealed if Sandusky knew McQuery saw him that day in the shower(either at the time it happened or after the fact)?

#33 That Aud Smell

That Aud Smell

    That Nostalgic Olfactory Blend

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,966 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Ecum Secum, Nova Scotia

Posted 10 November 2011 - 11:02 AM

View Postshrader, on 10 November 2011 - 10:39 AM, said:

It just seems stupid that all of a sudden the AD is the one who has to go to the police.  If Paterno and McWhatshisface* can take it to their superior, why can't the AD just wash his hands by taking it to someone like the school president?  It's dumb.  If one guy has the responsibility of taking a matter to the police, but the others don't have that same responsibility, it's a stupid double standard.  From a liability standard, ok, I can accept that, especially since that's already a system that's ridiculously screwed up.  From a legal standpoint though, I can't see why one guy would have any more responsibility than the last.
the buck stops somewhere, i guess. i won't purport to know where it stops in an institution as large as PSU, but evidently it didn't stop with paterno, since the grand jury made no noise about holding him accountable for a failure to report.

View PostLabattBlue, on 10 November 2011 - 10:39 AM, said:

I haven't read everything on this story.  Was it revealed if Sandusky knew McQuery saw him that day in the shower(either at the time it happened or after the fact)?
i haven't heard anything to that effect -- my take was more about how mcquery would have acted.

also tasting vomit in my mouth after hearing the latest rumors from people familiar with the investigation -- involving claims (i) that sandusky not only abused 2nd mile kids himself, but arranged for abuse by generous donors and (ii) indications that there was a straight quid pro quo for sandusky's retirement/promise to "sin no more" and the administration's pledge to cover up his past crimes.

#34 Glass Case Of Emotion

Glass Case Of Emotion

    Woah-Oh! We're half way there...

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,503 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rochester/Finger Lakes

Posted 10 November 2011 - 11:03 AM

View PostThat Aud Smell, on 10 November 2011 - 09:54 AM, said:

the concern appears to be that he didn't go to an unbiased, outside police authority (one that didn't have a vested interest in protecting the institution); one associated with a criminal justice system that would have jurisdiction to prosecute sandusky.

also, after having reported to the VP of operations and ostensibly discharged his legal duty (which he probably he did), it appears that paterno was complicit in an arrangement that allowed sandusky to retire at an early age (55) in exchange for a cover-up of past criminal acts and continued access to PSU facilities.

paterno's failing may not have been a legal one, but it was a moral one. and it was a biggie.

By state statute, the Penn State Police Department has full policing authority just like any other municipal police department. The accusation happened in their jurisdiction, they ABSOLUTELY would be the appropriate police authority. If I witness a rape on my street, and reported it to the chief of police, would I be morally obligated to make sure they follow up?

#35 korab rules

korab rules

    spelunker

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,014 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Finger Lakes

Posted 10 November 2011 - 11:24 AM

View PostLastPommerFan, on 10 November 2011 - 11:03 AM, said:

By state statute, the Penn State Police Department has full policing authority just like any other municipal police department. The accusation happened in their jurisdiction, they ABSOLUTELY would be the appropriate police authority. If I witness a rape on my street, and reported it to the chief of police, would I be morally obligated to make sure they follow up?
Would you be morally obligated to follow up if you know they didn't?

I'm sorry, but this Mcqueery guy is complicit.

According to the reports, he witnessed Sandusky sodomizing a kid in the shower.  Any red blooded american witnesses that, and there wouldn't be enough of Sandusky left to bother burying.

#36 weave

weave

    Self-appointed Expert

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,439 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:in your head

Posted 10 November 2011 - 11:25 AM

I am conflicted over how much criticism I am willing to throw at that Grad Asst.  My gut tells me he was in a bad spot.

I liken it to this, I witness a supervisor from another dept. assault an employee.  I report it to my boss.  I expect my boss to follow up and appropriate actions performed.  But if the appropriate actions aren't performed I think I may not be expected to have the same expectation of following up with the legal community that my boss has.  Mostly because I risk losing something if I do it, like my employment.  I can see where a Grad Asst may have been compelled to not go anywhere with it because he needed the job and knew there was risk of termination if he went outside of the University with it.  I'm betting the Grad Asst knew Campus Police were aware of the incident so he felt that going outside of that would jeopardize his livelihood.


The Grad Asst had every moral authority and responsibility to follow this up.  And so did Paterno.  And everyone else who knew for that matter.  How do you draw a line and say "the buck stops here" in this instance?  I don't think you can.  But I also firmly believe that anyone with management responsibilites (Paterno fits here, Grad Asst likely does not) has *MORE* moral responsibility to follow this up IMO, and therefore deserves a higher level of criticism.

what gets me is the culture here.  the Grad Asst witnessed the act and instead of immediately stopping it or reporting it, felt compelled to call his father for advice.  I don't know anything about this guy but I am assuming at that point he was in his low-mid 20's. old enough to know that he saw an act that needed immediate response, whether in person or through legal channels (police).  i can't believe the university culture is such that a dude  has to call his dad and ask for advice after witnessing a child get molested.

#37 That Aud Smell

That Aud Smell

    That Nostalgic Olfactory Blend

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,966 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Ecum Secum, Nova Scotia

Posted 10 November 2011 - 11:27 AM

View PostLastPommerFan, on 10 November 2011 - 09:47 AM, said:

Now I'm confused. According to the Grand Jury Presentment, Paterno reported the incident the VP of operations for the University. Who is the head of the University Police. So why are people saying he didn't go to the police?
looking at it now, schultz as vp of finance and business (not operations) "oversaw" the PSU police as part of his job duties. i don't know what that means and i don't know it makes schultz a representative of that police force. the mayor of buffalo oversees the police department -- have you reported something to the police if you bring it to the mayor's attention? imho, no.

View PostLastPommerFan, on 10 November 2011 - 11:03 AM, said:

By state statute, the Penn State Police Department has full policing authority just like any other municipal police department. The accusation happened in their jurisdiction, they ABSOLUTELY would be the appropriate police authority. If I witness a rape on my street, and reported it to the chief of police, would I be morally obligated to make sure they follow up?
again, i don't think we can equate schultz with being the chief of police.

anyway, everyone seems to agree that paterno fulfilled his legal reporting requirement -- it's the moral responsibility that he failed.

#38 Glass Case Of Emotion

Glass Case Of Emotion

    Woah-Oh! We're half way there...

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,503 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rochester/Finger Lakes

Posted 10 November 2011 - 11:32 AM

I honestly believe that JoePa was in denial that this was actually happening. That said, I think his termination was a good course of action for the university. And not waiting a few months for the heat to build up show's good character on the boards part.

#39 korab rules

korab rules

    spelunker

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,014 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Finger Lakes

Posted 10 November 2011 - 11:35 AM

View Postweave, on 10 November 2011 - 11:25 AM, said:

I am conflicted over how much criticism I am willing to throw at that Grad Asst.  My gut tells me he was in a bad spot.

I liken it to this, I witness a supervisor from another dept. assault an employee.  I report it to my boss.  I expect my boss to follow up and appropriate actions performed.  But if the appropriate actions aren't performed I think I may not be expected to have the same expectation of following up with the legal community that my boss has.  Mostly because I risk losing something if I do it, like my employment.  I can see where a Grad Asst may have been compelled to not go anywhere with it because he needed the job and knew there was risk of termination if he went outside of the University with it.  I'm betting the Grad Asst knew Campus Police were aware of the incident so he felt that going outside of that would jeopardize his livelihood.


The Grad Asst had every moral authority and responsibility to follow this up.  And so did Paterno.  And everyone else who knew for that matter.  How do you draw a line and say "the buck stops here" in this instance?  I don't think you can.  But I also firmly believe that anyone with management responsibilites (Paterno fits here, Grad Asst likely does not) has *MORE* moral responsibility to follow this up IMO, and therefore deserves a higher level of criticism.

what gets me is the culture here.  the Grad Asst witnessed the act and instead of immediately stopping it or reporting it, felt compelled to call his father for advice.  I don't know anything about this guy but I am assuming at that point he was in his low-mid 20's. old enough to know that he saw an act that needed immediate response, whether in person or through legal channels (police).  i can't believe the university culture is such that a dude  has to call his dad and ask for advice after witnessing a child get molested.
There is a huge difference between an assault and witnessing a 50 some year old guy sodomizing a 10 year old in a shower.  This was an institutional coverup the likes of which I have never seen.  Everyone looked the other way and allowed it to continue.  They should ban PSU athletics for a decade.

#40 biodork

biodork

    I love lamp.

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,778 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:central PA

Posted 10 November 2011 - 11:39 AM

View Postkorab rules, on 10 November 2011 - 11:35 AM, said:

There is a huge difference between an assault and witnessing a 50 some year old guy sodomizing a 10 year old in a shower.  This was an institutional coverup the likes of which I have never seen.  Everyone looked the other way and allowed it to continue.  They should ban PSU athletics for a decade.

I don't disagree about the cover-up, but banning PSU athletics would unfairly punish the students who had nothing to do with this.  Throw out everyone in charge who's even remotely involved and start over from scratch.





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: off topic